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Index > IDE Development > Fresh download format.

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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria
JohnFound
Well, after some thought, I think that we should change the format of the published Fresh packages. At first, I use rar format only because it make smaller files. Unfortunately WinRar is shareware and in addition (maybe because of this) AFAIK not very popular. So, I made some discovering and come to following information:
1. ZIP - very popular and free. Unfortunately not the best compression.
2. RAR - better compression rate than ZIP but it is not free. (decompression is free).
3. CAB (only with Lzx compression) - really big compression rate. Free??? I simply don't know but there are freeware utils that can compress in this format. WinRar can open it and it seems to be more standard than rar.

Compression comparison (maximal compression) I will give percents relaated to .rar format:
Fresh1_0_1C.zip -> 691k ( 116% )
Fresh1_0_1C.rar -> 598k ( 100%)
Fresh1_0_1C.cab -> 509k ( 85% )

Maximal difference is: 30%

So, please, give some opinions.

Regards.
Post 20 Feb 2004, 16:24
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Quant



Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 13
Location: Turkey
Quant
Windoze users can extract .cab files with Windoze Exploder. No any extra utilities required ! Regards...

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Post 20 Feb 2004, 22:58
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comrade



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 1137
Location: Russian Federation
comrade
ZIP...

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Post 20 Feb 2004, 23:24
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asmdemon



Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 97
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
asmdemon
ZIP, almost everyone can open a zip file, plus, Who notices 30K in a download nowadays?

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Post 20 Feb 2004, 23:44
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria
JohnFound
asmdemon wrote:
Who notices 30K in a download nowadays?


Well, the difference is about 200k actually and will grow in the future. Smile

Regards.
Post 21 Feb 2004, 00:02
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comrade



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 1137
Location: Russian Federation
comrade
How large is CAB (LZx) self-extractor? Somewhere around 4KB?

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Post 21 Feb 2004, 00:18
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria
JohnFound
comrade wrote:
How large is CAB (LZx) self-extractor? Somewhere around 4KB?


Hm, just now I can't find free self-extract tool or any library for LZx. Only ZIP.
Post 21 Feb 2004, 01:15
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria
JohnFound
OK, I found LGPL compressor - 7-zip. It have compression ratio almost the same (or even better) as LZX ( LHMA ) and have selfextractor. The size of the selfextractor is about 69kbytes (well, you know it is C++)

(offtopic - not related with the thread) There is 7-zip SDK, that explains algorithms, so we can try to write small library for Fresh.

link: http://www.7-zip.org/

Regards.
Post 21 Feb 2004, 02:27
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decard



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1095
Location: Poland
decard
What about NSIS? Using it with LZMA compression I created 514kb (526702 bytes) package. And it's not only self-executable, it's very powerful installation system. Maybe we could use this...

regards

[edit]oh, I forgot. The installer itself is 32K overhead to the executable[/edit]
Post 21 Feb 2004, 09:50
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria
JohnFound
decard wrote:
What about NSIS? Using it with LZMA compression I created 514kb (526702 bytes) package. And it's not only self-executable, it's very powerful installation system. Maybe we could use this...

regards

[edit]oh, I forgot. The installer itself is 32K overhead to the executable[/edit]


It looks very good. I am studying it just now. Thank you for the idea.

Regards.
Post 21 Feb 2004, 13:50
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decard



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1095
Location: Poland
decard
I've got a script that makes simple installation for Fresh - I'm attaching it here (just change its extension from *asm to *nsi). If you want I can prepare more complex script - that will show licanse, allow you to choose which components to install, etc.

regards
Post 21 Feb 2004, 13:53
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Yawgmoth



Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 37
Yawgmoth
Use cab. It's the smallest, and since windows is on 90% of all comps, the most standard (tied w/Zip).

Surely Linux users can do Cab files too?
Post 22 Feb 2004, 17:07
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sina



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 132
Location: istanbul turkey
sina
and linux users dont need fresh i think so cab is better than if its smaller

so anyone tried ace it gives good performance with solid archives with images
Post 27 Feb 2004, 20:33
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Randall Hyde



Joined: 03 Dec 2003
Posts: 57
Randall Hyde
JohnFound wrote:

So, please, give some opinions.

Regards.


Does it really hurt to provide the downloads in multiple formats and let the user choose which one they want?
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
Post 28 Feb 2004, 05:08
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Intrinsic



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 13
Intrinsic
LZX is superb. It was originally created for the Amiga back in 1995 by Data Compression Technologies. Micro$oft found out how damn good it is and paid them shit loads of money for the rights to it. Cab files are based on the LZX-2 format and i'm not sure if a decompressor is available for Linux.

DCT Homepage: [/url]http://xavprods.free.fr/lzx/[/url]

Rar i think is prolly the best choice overall, available for Linux and windoze.

Zip is more common though, but should have been phased out years ago.

7-Zip is also very nice, overall slightly better than rar but i've had very mixed results with sometimes it comming out worse than zip.

If you want hardcore compression, check out Compressia http://www.compressia.com/ It is very(and i mean very at highest settings:) CPU intensive but does get really small file sizes but only available for windoze.
Post 01 Mar 2004, 21:54
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Intrinsic



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 13
Intrinsic
I just been doing some compression tests of the latest 1.0.1D.0 fresh distribution and here are my results from best to worse.


RAR: 459K [Best Methed, Solid Option, Advanced Compression Options: Prediction Order 63 Memory 128Mb]
RAR: 465K [Best Methed, Solid Option]
Compressia: 466K [Max Compression, Solid Blocks, Blocksize 15mb, English Text set]
ZIP: 642K [Best method]

There are some new archivers on the market, but atm they only like to handle single files at a time, but already gain about 8% over RAR and Compressia.
Post 03 Mar 2004, 17:26
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria
JohnFound
Intrinsic wrote:
I just been doing some compression tests of the latest 1.0.1D.0 fresh distribution and here are my results from best to worse.

RAR: 459K [Best Methed, Solid Option, Advanced Compression Options: Prediction Order 63 Memory 128Mb]
RAR: 465K [Best Methed, Solid Option]
Compressia: 466K [Max Compression, Solid Blocks, Blocksize 15mb, English Text set]
ZIP: 642K [Best method]

There are some new archivers on the market, but atm they only like to handle single files at a time, but already gain about 8% over RAR and Compressia.


Well, maybe you use some new version of WinRar (In mine, there are not so much options) and I got not so good results.
But the main problem is that RAR format is not free. I want to avoid using of commercial software at all.
Compressia make very good compression but it is in early stage of developement and it is not free too.
ZIP is free, but the compression rates are very bad. Smile

So, I released the current work version in .CAB format (Using freeware utility UltimateZip). If there are no complaints from the community, I will release the next official pre-alpha versions as .CABs and after first alpha version there will be installer for official versions (probably NSIS, but I like also InnoSetup - it have really easy to use script language.)

Regards.
Post 03 Mar 2004, 22:34
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The dead



Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 13
The dead
Try 7-zip (http://www.7-zip.org) Very Happy
Post 08 Mar 2004, 14:15
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iklin



Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 122
Location: Russia, Siberia
iklin
I think that 7-zip with his original '7z' format will be a good solution.
Post 01 Apr 2004, 14:29
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