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Imagist



Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 114
Location: Pennsylvania (USA)
Imagist
It seems to me that FASMEdit and Fresh are two ends of the spectrum; FASMEdit doing the minimum amount necessary to write code, and Fresh providing lots of features. Wouldn't it be good to have a middle between them, putting in only the most useful functions? I'm basing this on the old version of Turbo C++ from Borland, which was designed for Windows 95. It had a function which allowed you to right-click anywhere on the window and an index of the full range of functions and such that were included in the reserved words and the includes.

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Post 10 Aug 2004, 19:44
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decard



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1095
Location: Poland
decard
I think writting this "middle-IDE" is an unnecessary waste of time. Can't you just use Fresh? You don't need to use all its features, and it is so small (the executable is 190kb), it loads fast, so using it should be no problem Wink
Post 10 Aug 2004, 20:19
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crc



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 637
Location: Penndel, PA [USA]
crc
Quote:
I think writting this "middle-IDE" is an unnecessary waste of time. Can't you just use Fresh? You don't need to use all its features, and it is so small (the executable is 190kb), it loads fast, so using it should be no problem


I'd rather just use FASMW than Fresh Smile. Personally, as nice as Fresh appears to be, it's interface is confusing to me, and it seems overly complex. Hopefully it'll continue to improve though, so my opinion might change in the future...

For now, a "middle-IDE" would be good for people like me who want a little more than FASMW, but less than Fresh. (Just give me FASMW & an integreted debugger and I'll be quite happy...)
Post 10 Aug 2004, 20:29
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria
JohnFound
crc wrote:
Personally, as nice as Fresh appears to be, it's interface is confusing to me, and it seems overly complex.


What actually you find confusing in Fresh interface and/or behaviour? And how you think it have to work to avoid confusions. We are intended to make Fresh as easy for use and intuitive as possible. But you know, we can't do this without the users feedback...

Regards.
Post 10 Aug 2004, 20:58
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coconut



Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 326
Location: usa
coconut
a toolbar added too fasmw would be great
Post 10 Aug 2004, 22:00
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crc



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 637
Location: Penndel, PA [USA]
crc
Most of my confusion comes from little things:

  • Multi-windowed interface (panels should 'snap' together)
  • Long toolbar
  • When editing a form, the visual editor pops up, then hides itself until you click on a property. It doesn't show up in the list of windows either, so you can't quickly switch to it


I'd find it easier to have an single window with the menu bar, toolbar, and tabbed editor. Properties, list of files in project, visual resource editor, etc would be separate windows that would 'snap' to the border edges of the main window. And the selector for controls really should be a separate panel too. Of course this is just my opinion, but at least implement a way to 'snap windows together'.

Another thing: it's very monolithic at the moment. Is it possible to separate out functionality into DLL's? So you'd have the editor DLL, the Visual Resource editor DLL, a debugger DLL, and the main app would tie them together? Doing that might make the source tree more manageable, and updates could be done more easily. (e.g., an updated resource editor dll could be downloaded/dropped into the directory without having to redownload the entire Fresh)
Post 10 Aug 2004, 22:15
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coconut



Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 326
Location: usa
coconut
i agree crc, source files confusing to browse thru
Post 10 Aug 2004, 22:47
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria
JohnFound
VC style? Wink

crc wrote:
Multi-windowed interface (panels should 'snap' together)

They will, definately, at the end... Smile

Quote:
When editing a form, the visual editor pops up, then hides itself until you click on a property. It doesn't show up in the list of windows either, so you can't quickly switch to it


You can - "mainmenu|View|Switch form/source" - F12

In the future there will be combo box in property editor with all visual created windows.

Quote:
Is it possible to separate out functionality into DLL's? .... Doing that might make the source tree more manageable, and updates could be done more easily.


I don't think so. Now the project is modular enough - but in source level.
Everyone can get some module and change it and recompile Fresh without single trouble. For example on every new release of FASM, I simply copy the core files from FASM source to Fresh source and press "Compile". And I get the next compiler inside.

Thank you for the opinion.
Regards.
Post 10 Aug 2004, 23:04
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Imagist



Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 114
Location: Pennsylvania (USA)
Imagist
I don't see anything wrong with Fresh. I actually like it a lot, and will probably be using it a lot when I get started on some larger projects. It is just that on smaller stuff (which is what I am doing most of the time) I like to have one window open with just a few simple helps and no clutter. That's why I like Firefox: I have practically nothing on my toolbar. Only the things I use often.
Post 11 Aug 2004, 00:33
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pelaillo
Missing in inaction


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 875
Location: Colombia
pelaillo
crc wrote:
Is it possible to separate out functionality into DLL's? So you'd have the editor DLL, the Visual Resource editor DLL, a debugger DLL, and the main app would tie them together?


crc, some time ago I have done an attempt to do a very modular IDE, look at here http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=468

I have done it as a proof of concept and someday I will continue it. I like it that way, hot-plugging needed features only when needed and having it fully configurable.

I know that it is the opposite side of the spectrum respect to Fresh and JohnFound has some very good reasons to follow his path. And considering that Fresh is not a *loaded* Fasmw but the improved successor of Delphi Wink
Post 11 Aug 2004, 03:33
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria
JohnFound
pelaillo wrote:
And considering that Fresh is not a *loaded* Fasmw but the improved successor of Delphi Wink


Yea, yea! I liked this. Laughing Laughing Laughing
Post 11 Aug 2004, 05:24
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h4ng4m3



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 21
h4ng4m3
Fresh is nice but i like fasmw he (replace notepad!)
Post 11 Aug 2004, 08:35
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