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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17248
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
The "help and support centre" in Windows sucks. Easier and faster to go to google.
Post 07 Feb 2009, 13:32
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
revolution wrote:
The "help and support centre" in Windows sucks. Easier and faster to go to google.
I disabled the service Razz
And if we go by Microsoft's site, the whole site sucks.

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Post 07 Feb 2009, 17:44
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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Location: usa
tom tobias
Responding to 'Borsuc's' challenge, i.e. that 'Help' is more intuitive than 'MAN', Raedwulf wrote:
Intuitive for a windows user or a linux user?
This is clearly a non-sequitur. 'Intuitive' bears no identity with operating system, but rather with human language, in this case, ENGLISH. Here, 'The_Grey_Beast' is absolutely correct, for native English speakers, not unix or windows users. 'Man', the attenuated form of manual, is also, by itself, i.e. stand alone, a meaningful collection of phonemes, specifically indicating a person of male persuasion. It is counterintuitive to imagine a different meaning from the obvious, correct interpretation of the word, i.e. its first meaning. Only those accustomed to WRITING shortcuts, or TYPING shortcuts, back in the day, before graphic versions of an operating system became readily available, would identify 'man' as representing a shortened form of 'manual'. Only those familiar with 'man', indicating not a male human, but a printed version explaining details of the function of the operating system, would find the term intuitive. I guess that 99% of native speakers, confronted with the three phonemes found in 'man' would identify this word as representing a male member of homo sapiens.
Post 07 Feb 2009, 18:31
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Azu
Let's just hope it's intuitive enough to google for "linux manual", then. Or would that be to complicated for most windows users? "ubuntu help" works, to.
Post 07 Feb 2009, 18:55
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Writing sarcastically, albeit incorrectly, grammatically, Azu wrote:

Or would that be to [sic] complicated for most windows users?
What he seeks to express here is the notion that one ought to be sufficiently experienced with manipulating the keyboard, to be able to type, using a search engine, the words "linux manual". In my experience, old folks in particular, are unable to do much in the way of typing.
What is "magical" about M$ is that one does not need to do much typing. One simply must activate a pointer device, such as a mouse. Even there, elderly folks have trouble clicking once, in particular, let alone twice in rapid succession. Use of the keyboard is tantamount to asking them to learn Greek. Windows has many flaws, one of them is not ease of use. The plain vanilla version installs with little effort, and once up and running, requires fewer shenanigans than UNIX to keep going...

I acknowledge not being the sharpest tack in the rug, but, I was unable yesterday, to transfer a file from a directory formatted with UNIX file system to a directory, on the same hard drive, formatted as NTFS running under WinXP, but whose contents were wholly visible to UNIX.
This ought to have been a trivial matter--moving data from one location on hard drive to another, but I failed. I did not attempt the same manoeuvre from M$, because the UNIX drives are invisible to M$.
Post 07 Feb 2009, 19:41
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Azu
tom tobias wrote:
Writing sarcastically, albeit incorrectly, grammatically, Azu wrote:

Or would that be to [sic] complicated for most windows users?
What he seeks to express here is the notion that one ought to be sufficiently experienced with manipulating the keyboard, to be able to type, using a search engine, the words "linux manual". In my experience, old folks in particular, are unable to do much in the way of typing.
What is "magical" about M$ is that one does not need to do much typing. One simply must activate a pointer device, such as a mouse. Even there, elderly folks have trouble clicking once, in particular, let alone twice in rapid succession. Use of the keyboard is tantamount to asking them to learn Greek. Windows has many flaws, one of them is not ease of use. The plain vanilla version installs with little effort, and once up and running, requires fewer shenanigans than UNIX to keep going...

I acknowledge not being the sharpest tack in the rug, but, I was unable yesterday, to transfer a file from a directory formatted with UNIX file system to a directory, on the same hard drive, formatted as NTFS running under WinXP, but whose contents were wholly visible to UNIX.
This ought to have been a trivial matter--moving data from one location on hard drive to another, but I failed. I did not attempt the same manoeuvre from M$, because the UNIX drives are invisible to M$.
So basically, in UNIX you can view the contents of proprietary partitions from other OSs, but windows can't even view the contents of a totally transparent, open-source filesystem.
Are you trying to convince me to switch to a *nix OS? Or did I misunderstand your post?
Post 07 Feb 2009, 19:49
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
tom tobias wrote:
I did not attempt the same manoeuvre from M$, because the UNIX drives are invisible to M$.
If you have Total Commander there's a plugin that allows you to get into Linux filesystems Smile (there's also one to access the registry like it were files, etc...)

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Post 07 Feb 2009, 20:44
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
There are ext2/3 file system drivers for windows if you know where to find them. Here's an open source one -

http://www.ext2fsd.com/

Most *nix OS can read/write ntfs as a default file system these days ..... another area where windows is sadly lacking compared to *nix OS
Post 07 Feb 2009, 21:12
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
Windows cannot access FFS/UFS partitions ... without the use of open-source software.
FreeBSD OTOH has been supporting FAT12/16/32 (and many other FS) for years natively. The NTFS support is still experimental so it's better to use it as read-only. For read/write support, you can easily install a third-party open-source driver like NTFS-3G that's available from the ports tree.
Post 08 Feb 2009, 08:51
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Azu
So basically *nix systems can read all (and write to most of) the windows filesystems, even though their implementations (yet alone source codes) aren't even public, but windows can't even read ZFS or Reiser4, even though they are completely open for all to see and use..

Figures! Very Happy
Post 08 Feb 2009, 08:59
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Regarding 'man' above. You can google for man pages by just entering something like: 'man strstr' to get that info. Also, Google has a special search area for BSD.
Post 08 Feb 2009, 13:13
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Raedwulf



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: United Kingdom
Raedwulf
ManOfSteel wrote:
Windows cannot access FFS/UFS partitions ... without the use of open-source software.
FreeBSD OTOH has been supporting FAT12/16/32 (and many other FS) for years natively. The NTFS support is still experimental so it's better to use it as read-only. For read/write support, you can easily install a third-party open-source driver like NTFS-3G that's available from the ports tree.


If you are feeling adventurous, ntfs-3g write support though experimental works quite well - i've not had any problems with it (nor have quite a few others).
Of course "experimental" means if you harddisk explodes, or the filesystem gets corrupted it could indicate that you should keep more backups in the future Smile

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Raedwulf
Post 09 Feb 2009, 12:21
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