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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
With the latest compiz/whatever stuff, there's a lot more glitz and bling available for linux than Windows, and some people use that as a "omfg linux is teh coolar than windooze!" argument.

In corporate land, what's the *u*x replacement for active directory and policies? :]
Post 02 Feb 2009, 16:34
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
f0dder wrote:
With the latest compiz/whatever stuff, there's a lot more glitz and bling available for linux than Windows, and some people use that as a "omfg linux is teh coolar than windooze!" argument.


Cool? Yes. That's definitely an eye candy Wink
Useful? Hmm... not really know ... Laughing
Post 03 Feb 2009, 21:40
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Compiz CAN do cool stuff but that's not all it does. You can use it for a minimal config, too, and everything in between. The point is, it's ultimately customizable.
Post 04 Feb 2009, 02:53
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Chewy509



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 297
Location: Bris-vegas, Australia
Chewy509
f0dder wrote:
In corporate land, what's the *u*x replacement for active directory and policies? :]


There's no direct replacement per se for AD in the UNIX world.

Typically, one would setup a LDAP server and use kerberos for client authentication and central account administration, as well as email setup/contacts, etc...

There are a few implementations, like Novell's eDirectory, Sun's Sun ONE Directory server (which I think was renamed again recently), etc, and they all do the job and work just as well as AD for UNIX land. SunONE Directory server can also be a replication partner for a Windows based AD environment, allowing you to administrator both Windows and UNIX clients from the 1 interface. (Except GPO doesn't apply to UNIX clients). SO you UNIX clients talk to the SunONE server, and your Win clients talk to the Window DC. IBM and Novells competing directory products IIRC have similar functionality.

As for Group Policy, there's nothing comparable. The configuration of clients is left up to login scripts within the users profile, or setting defaults in the scripts located in /etc.
Post 04 Feb 2009, 06:42
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
It's always strange to hear Windows users put down 'nix because it doesn't do Windows necessities and programs. It's like me wondering why Windows doesn't do grep and then faulting it for not doing so. Just so bizarre.
Post 04 Feb 2009, 15:08
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
drhowarddrfine wrote:
It's always strange to hear Windows users put down 'nix because it doesn't do Windows necessities and programs.
The story usually goes like this:

  • {linux,*BSD} user: my OS is so much better than Window$ and can so much replace it totally.
  • Windows user: (either mocking or showing genuine interest): OK, what about Feature X which {I, my workplace, my school} kinda totally relies on?
  • {linux,*BSD} user: oh, it can't do that, but you can sorta approximate it by {hacky and overly complex procedure, buying software that's even more expensive than Windows Server licenses}
  • Windows user: erm, that doesn't exactly do it for me.
  • {linux,*BSD} user: UNFAIR! YOU DON'T NEED THAT FUNCTIONALITY ANYWAY! YOU'RE DOING THINGS WRONG!


drhowarddrfine wrote:
It's like me wondering why Windows doesn't do grep and then faulting it for not doing so. Just so bizarre.

1) grep isn't part of the OS (but OK, what makes up an OS is subjective; I don't need it as a base OS install because Windows includes other searching tools that usually fits the glove. Especially the (love it, hate it or be indifferent about it) indexing stuff introduced with Vista.)

2) there's plenty of greps available for Windows, and there has been for more years than I can remember. Command-line as well as graphical versions.

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Post 04 Feb 2009, 16:15
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
See what I mean. And the usual argument always boils down to kids/school and games.
Post 04 Feb 2009, 18:50
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
f0dder wrote:

2) there's plenty of greps available for Windows, and there has been for more years than I can remember. Command-line as well as graphical versions.


Windows user: oh, it can't do that, but you can sorta approximate it by {hacky and overly complex procedure, buying software that's even more expensive than Windows Server licenses} ....... guess it happens both ways huh Wink



How about a real life example instead of fairy tale stories. On vista if you try to open a windows help file (note that a WINDOWS help file), vista gives you a message saying the WINDOWS help format is no longer supported but you can download "sorta approximate {hacky and overly complex procedure} software" from MSDN. Lucky I have linux on my system as well so I could open the WINDOWS help file..... true story!!!

Question f0dder, have you ever heard of an instance (factual not fairy tale story like above) where to use a linux program, you have to use windows???
Post 04 Feb 2009, 20:08
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
If you work with music, VST plugins are only released for Windows and Mac. No Linux versions Confused

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Post 04 Feb 2009, 20:49
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
If you work with professional film and computer graphics for film (ala Hollywood), plugins for those programs are only released for 'nix. No Windows versions.
Post 04 Feb 2009, 22:23
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Borsuc: Google "linux VST plugins".

A big problems seems to be the VST plugin SDK license is very restrictive. Perhaps supporting formats that are less restrictive would benefit the entire computing world.
Post 04 Feb 2009, 22:36
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Chewy509



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 297
Location: Bris-vegas, Australia
Chewy509
drhowarddrfine wrote:
It's always strange to hear Windows users put down 'nix because it doesn't do Windows necessities and programs.

I find this statement to be particularly true if talking about Active Directory and Group Policy Objects.

But I've the number of people complain about it missing from *nix, very few of them can actually describe what AD is and how it works, and what GPOs are and how they work.

In a nutshell, Active Directory is a LDAP server that uses Kerberos authentication, which uses a default schema (as defined by MS), and has a few custom extensions on LDAP services to support legacy Windows infrastructure. By joining a domain in Windows, all you are telling the client to do, is to authenticate (by default) to the AD server and uses some settings as defined within the schema.

GPOs are simply registry settings displayed in a nice fashion. If you have mandated GPOs, its settings simply override the settings in the local registry, and since the registry is settings repository for Windows, then those settings flow onto Windows and any client applications.

If you think about it for 5secs, you can easily see how the *nix alternatives are comparable. (LDAP server, with Kerberos client authentication, and login/system scripts for GPO).
Post 04 Feb 2009, 23:32
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
I dunno, maybe it is restrictive (I have no intention of programming my own VST lol), no idea. Just my experience: I know a LOT of VSTs (and very expensive ones >400$ as well), are only available for "PC" and "Mac" (pc is Windows Confused)... some are ONLY for Mac while some are only for PC.

But I haven't seen Linux. I'm not sure, is there a way to make them 'playable' in Linux (Wine has problems --> a friend of mine said). VST may suck but it's what most producers use unfortunately. Either that or "DirectX" plugins, which I believe, are even less likely to be ported to Linux Wink

As for professional hollywood, I don't know, I have seen both very expensive (professional quality) software VSTs, they are not THAT expensive, but hollywood & such probably use hardware synthesizers (can top even 5000$) which are much more expensive.

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Post 05 Feb 2009, 01:38
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Protesting that UNIX is less limited in its scope of applications, than is commonly perceived, drhowarddrfine wrote:
See what I mean. And the usual argument always boils down to kids/school and games. ....
If you work with professional film and computer graphics for film (ala Hollywood), plugins for those programs are only released for 'nix. No Windows versions.
Here is a different kind of problem one encounters in attempting to gain acceptance of some operating system other than M$, in a different domain: banking/finance. In that realm, the financial institution regulates how the client can access his/her account. Here's an example:

Scottrade's Technical Requirements for the Elite platform:
Quote:
Minimum - Windows 2000 with Internet Explorer c5.5 (or later), 256+ meg of ram, 100+ meg free harddrive storage, and a 56k modem.
Of course, one can ask Scottrade to allow clients' use of the UNIX operating system, but what will be their response?
Post 06 Feb 2009, 11:38
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
I've used Scottrade since 1998 and it's interesting because, when I first joined, I had lots of problems trying to access my account. The software people, back then, told me I should NOT use Internet Explorer and switch to Netscape because IE was such a horrible browser. That's still true today but it's funny they've adapted.

I don't know what service I use with them but whatever it is it works fine with FreeBSD and Linux. (Scottrade's HQ is down the street from one of my restaurants and is one of its biggest customers.)
Post 06 Feb 2009, 12:49
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Scottrade has at least two different trading platforms. I illustrated the technical requirements for the Elite platform. At least when I checked with them by telephone, a couple of years ago, they denied UNIX capability, for that platform.
Post 06 Feb 2009, 13:04
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Azu
Borsuc wrote:
I know it comes from manual, but heck why truncate it to that word?
Why truncate exchange to xchg and move to mov? Because it's easier/faster to type.


f0dder wrote:
drhowarddrfine wrote:
I love how Windows users find one program (and it's always VS) as proof that Windows apps are better than Linux apps. In Linux, you don't need all that stuff and VS does to organize their SDK mess (now up to 1GB). I know som eEmacs people that would go up against VS anytime. I wish I was good enough at it to show something but, like I said, 'nix users don't need all that VS stuff.

VS is obviously chosen because it's hard to find a replacement for. Nothing on the linux platform comes close. As for "don't need all that stuff", heh. No, and you don't need anything but a hex editor to write programs, really. But extra features can make the developer's life easier, debuggers help in fixing bugs, code coverage and profiling tools have their uses as well. VS integrates this stuff, instead of leaving you to juggle several programs and resort to command-lines.

As for the SDK being a mess, what do you base that on? It's big, yes, and it could probably benefit from being made modular.
But most average users don't need advanced VS features, and the ones that do won't be freaked out by typing something in a command line.. you have to type stuff to program, don't you? Wink


f0dder wrote:
drhowarddrfine wrote:
It's always strange to hear Windows users put down 'nix because it doesn't do Windows necessities and programs.
1) grep isn't part of the OS (but OK, what makes up an OS is subjective; I don't need it as a base OS install because Windows includes other searching tools that usually fits the glove. Especially the (love it, hate it or be indifferent about it) indexing stuff introduced with Vista.)
VS, DX, IE and PS aren't part of the OS, either. Does that mean they aren't valid excuses for using windows? Sweet!

f0dder wrote:
2) there's plenty of greps available for Windows, and there has been for more years than I can remember. Command-line as well as graphical versions.
And there's plenty of compilers available for *nix systems.
Post 06 Feb 2009, 21:15
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
'help' is more intuitive than 'man' Razz

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Post 07 Feb 2009, 01:41
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1160
Azu
And 'move' is more intuitive then 'mov'. Not to mention 'put' or 'set' which aren't even longer.
Post 07 Feb 2009, 01:43
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Raedwulf



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: United Kingdom
Raedwulf
Borsuc wrote:
'help' is more intuitive than 'man' Razz

Intuitive for a windows user or a linux user? Razz

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Post 07 Feb 2009, 13:24
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