flat assembler
Message board for the users of flat assembler.

Index > Heap > Muslim family booted off U.S. airline

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author
Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
HyperVista wrote:

I challenge you to show one post where I've promoted dropping bombs on innocent people


Sorry but I'm not going to justify your hate monger posts! So you hate Muslim and want them dead .... we get it.... now sod off hate monger!
Post 04 Jan 2009, 00:43
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
MichaelH wrote:

Hypervista wrote:

I challenge you to show one post where I've promoted dropping bombs on innocent people



Sorry but I'm not going to justify your hate monger posts!



Hahahahahah!! Laughing Laughing I thought so, you wanker! Laughing
Post 04 Jan 2009, 00:59
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
MattBro



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 37
MattBro
asmcoder wrote:
someone should do something about religion - kill all people who pray to gods (no matter wich one). That would be nice step of evolution.


Stalin and Mao already tried that. Between the two of them some 200 million were slaughtered; probably more than all the religious wars of history. I'd say atheists are the bigger threat.

_________________
-- -------------------------------------------------------
"I am the Way and the Truth and the Light, no one comes to the Father except through me" - Jesus
---------------------------------------------------------
Post 04 Jan 2009, 01:22
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
don't twist my words vid. i said "profiling muslims as POTENTIAL terrorists". i did not say muslim == terrorist.

Right, my bad. Sorry, I take it back. After fixing this argument, do you think it is okay for Cambodian (whose entire family/village was innocently killed by US bombing) to profile every US citizen as POTENTIAL terrorist? (eg. exactly the thing that east-block countries did)

Quote:
since you insist on taking the thread off topic to "see how bad US is",
Actually, that's what thread was about since beginning (and it is one of most important topics worldwide, anyway). Name "Muslim family booted off U.S. airline" very much describes which religion/nationality tolerance and which country it is about. If Muslim people generalize christians as you do - how many atrocities and how bad were done by christians compared to muslims, even in last (20th) century? Which one do you think has ended up worse? Shouldn't every christian be 10 times more potential danger to mankind that every muslim, based on such argumentation you use against muslims?

Quote:
regarding cambodia, US airforce had surveillance proving those villages were supporting military combatants. not comfortable with the surveillance from aircraft, they sent reconnaisance teams in to confirm it on the ground before authorizing the bombings. do you really want to say that blowing up bombs in crowded shopping centers or on aircraft is morally equivalent to military operations??

Even if it was supportable claim, that excuses civilan killings in friendly country controlled by puppet ruler... how? Surely, in the Pentagon and WTC there were some people actively working against muslim nations too, weren't there? And that's not even in friendly country with puppet ruler. If killing most civilians in villages where Vietnamese were hidden was justified, shouldn't this by analogy justify killing US citizens in Pentagon / WTC too?

And still the main problem, your claim is unsupportable. It is clear we can never know if decision-makers decided to drop bombs based on "here is recent picture showing enemy movement last 24-hours in this area" all the time, or "let's fuck those fucking riceheads, we'll bomb the shit out of them, yee-haw". We simply can't know, and IMO most likely both cases happened often. Uncrontrolled power unvariably leads to abuse of it, and that is something i am really conviced about now.

Can you imagine Nazis defending in Nuremberg that "oh no, about those villages in friendly countries that we burned down without actually finding any partisans first, we had a reconnaisance there and we knew there surely were some"... That is the sort of argument you fall back to. Even if it was really true, it would be morally grossly insufficent argument to justify civilan killing. And with the amount of bombs dropped (more than US dropped in WW2, AFAIK), I really doubt it even can be true.

MichaelH: I really do not want to defend HyperVista at this point (even though he is friend of mine, i believe it is normal for friends to disagree on politics and other stuff), but your style of *cough* argumentation is out of place here. Your last 2 posts summed up were: deliberate misquotation, one normal argument about past intolerance of religions, personal attack, and another personal attack along with failure to respond to challenge to support your previous attack.

I would hate to delete this myself, because you surely would play it down to our past arguments, but such behavior does not belong to this board. If you persist in it, I will ask Tomasz to review your posts in this thread and take action himself, if he decides. Rather, please support your arguments somehow, don't simply offend people without responding their charges, and be more constructive than primitive ad-hominems. Any 8-year old can just throw insults, misquotations, and false charges at other people, and that is not level this discussion should fall to.
Post 04 Jan 2009, 01:37
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2906
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
Why does the State of Israel exist?
Wikipedia wrote:
After World War I, the League of Nations approved the British Mandate of Palestine with the intent of creating a "national home for the Jewish people." In 1947, the United Nations approved the partition of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab.
...they started this.
Post 04 Jan 2009, 02:02
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
I'm still having some difficulty equivocating military activity against legitimate military targets and terrorist targetting civilians purposefully.

Let's first examine your assertion that masses of villages were leveled. I don't think it was like that. The military bombings were precise and limited. In fact, the US Air Force bombings of the border areas were approved by the Cambodian government.

http://www.answers.com/topic/cambodia-bombing-of wrote:
Limited tactical air operations in Cambodia began on 24 April 1970, preparatory to ground operations during the American-Vietnamese incursion. The purpose of these strictly controlled operations, made with the acquiescence of the government of Cambodia but without the consent of the U.S. Congress, was to destroy long-standing North Vietnamese base areas and supply depots near the Cambodian border and cause the North Vietnamese to further disperse their forces.

So, according to this source, the bombings were limited and targetted specifically at North Vietnames bases and supplies AND was conducted with the approval of the Cambodian government themselves. This description hardly sounds like a reckless, bloodthirsty revenge bombing campaign. And surely you have to agree it's not equivalent to terrorist blowing up busy shopping area full of innocent civilians trying to by foods for that evenings meal.
US casualties dropped by half after the bombings and therefore would suggest it was a legitimate mililtary action.

As for Christian vs Muslim autrocities, I can't account for any actions of some whacked out Christians from Spain, Italy, whatever, in the middle ages. That list I provided is much closer to home ... 1968 - 2004.


Last edited by HyperVista on 04 Jan 2009, 02:22; edited 2 times in total
Post 04 Jan 2009, 02:06
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
bitRAKE: You can always throw hot potato at someone else.

I think Soviet Union was the first major country who accepted Israel as a state, before US. You can use that to support Hitlerish claim that that bolsheviks were just one sort of sionists who tried different way to control the world, united with capitalists. There are many good arguments for that, if you ignore counterarguments.

Against those, you can use claims of "revisionists" (better known, not always correctly, as "holocaust deniers"), who say that better part of holocaust story is myth invented by sionists to protect them from any criticism, by charging any critic with being Nazi.

Even my homeland, Czechoslovakia was controlled by mostly-jew communists, and supported Israel, for some time. Yeah, we did support anti-israel countries even by weapon supplies for next 20 years, but you can stay quiet about that for sure.

Really, it is possible to accuse anyone from being supporter of anyone, so much shit happened in the world. But at the end remains one who was the stable long-term supporter of Israel with common gains with them - and that is unquestionably US. And Isreal is one of most clearly unjust conflicts - based only on some ancient religious texts. Jews were offered free land in various parts of world, but they declined because it was not their "promised sacred land". If that would be enough to claim a land, US citizens should return to Europe and Africa, Europeans should return to Asia, and eventually all people should return to mid-Africa.
Post 04 Jan 2009, 02:12
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2906
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
vid wrote:
Isreal is one of most clearly unjust conflicts - based only on some ancient religious texts.
I couldn't agree more!

I love hot potatoes and would never throw them at anyone.

_________________
¯\(°_o)/¯ unlicense.org
Post 04 Jan 2009, 02:23
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
vid: since you'll obviously not going to rebuke your friend, can you stand aside and let those who wish to stand up to such a cowardly person as HyperVista and the other pro US "lets drop more bombs" diskheads, do so without resorting to your usual dictatorship style of admins


vid wrote:

Isreal is one of most clearly unjust conflicts - based only on some ancient religious texts.


I too totally agree with this quote.
Post 04 Jan 2009, 02:29
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
I'm still having some difficulty equivocating military activity against legitimate military targets and terrorist targetting civilians purposefully.

First little vocabulary check for this particular case: "military activity" = bombing; "military targets" = "vietnamese bases" = "civilan villages" (we know very well what are the bases of insurgents); You really can't claim that is same, I agree. But purposes might be same - fighting for their case. All you can equivocate is suffering that each side is capable and willing to cause during that fight, and that is what I am doing.

Do you think if people/nations who do terrorism had a realistic chance to wage "fair" war against US, they wouldn't do it? I believe they would. Terrorism is here simply because it is the only option they have to fight back. They are driven to terrorism because they are pushed back to wall.

PS: I have read a very good question about Vietnam War in a book you gave me: Which side would US independence fighters join in Vietnam war? Side that spent 20 years fighting for independence from colonial power controlling them, or side that spent 20 years supporting colonial power, then established their own puppet gov in half country, rigged UN peace mandate because it knew it would lose, and rigged elections... What do you think?

Quote:
So, according to this source, the bombings were limited

Limited... Would you agree Nazi killings were "limited" too?

Quote:
and targetted specifically at North Vietnames bases and supplies

Surely, just like Nazi actions in Ukraine were targeted at bolshevik insurgents... and still, how many innocent civilans died? As I already explained, I really do believe purpose was to destroy Vietnamese of course, not to kill Cambodian people. But in reality, is it even possible to drop such shitload of bombs on country where foreign troops are hidden without killing more civilans than troops? (surely Vietnamese were all hiding in areas with no civilans - and thus no food, shelter, etc, so innocent Cambodians wouldn't be hurt...)

Quote:
AND was conducted with the approval of the Cambodian government themselves.

With puppet pro-US government installed by US after overthrowing their real government which dared to be neutral. And the government we are speaking about was hated by population exactly for this approval so much, that population supported even such extremist as Pol Pot, who turned out to be worst national tragedy ever (and later Cambodia was liberated from him by who? by winning North Vietnam)

Quote:
This description hardly sounds like a reckless, bloodthirsty revenge bombing campaign.

No. It sounds like pursuing unjust military targets without putting too much consideration on innocent civilan deaths in foreign country. Not as bad as you put it, but still not good either.

Quote:
And surely you have to agree it's not equivalent to terrorist blowing up busy shopping area full of innocent civilians trying to by foods for that evenings meal.

No. It is much worser. Way more people suffered, way more people were angered and driven into "red khmer" anti-US extremism, and way more people were killed, stayed homeless, etc.

I bet if today terrorists had such military power as US had/has, they would od even worser damage, but they never had it, and so damage to innocents they have done is very inferior to one that US has done.
Post 04 Jan 2009, 02:45
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
MichaelH wrote:
can you stand aside and let those who wish to stand up to such a cowardly person as HyperVista

What a joke! I challenged you to provide one quote where I advocated bombing innocent people and you refused (because they don't exist). You call that standing up to me?? What an absolute entertaining joke you are. Laughing Laughing Laughing


Last edited by HyperVista on 04 Jan 2009, 02:50; edited 1 time in total
Post 04 Jan 2009, 02:48
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
MichaelH wrote:
since you'll obviously not going to rebuke your friend

Sure, I obviously never would do it, even less in this thread 3 times already Laughing

And I still don't see anything more than just unfounded personal attacks coming from you. Regardless of whether thing you claim HyperVista meant to say is true or not, it is worthless unless you can back it up with quotations from him or some other data.
Post 04 Jan 2009, 02:49
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2906
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
It's difficult to not get incensed when people (whomever they be) are being killed at the hands of others (whomever they be). Most anyone with half a brain knows how these situations perpetuate - and eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Yet, who should turn the other cheek this time, and how long will it last. If we could only find our humanity.
Post 04 Jan 2009, 03:14
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
vid - you are focusing on the relative magnitude of the casualties caused and from that perspective i agree. but what i am arguing are the moralities of the tactics and intent. terrorist will intentionally target a busy shopping area full of innocent women and children shopping, or a bar full of people enjoying a beer and conversation. I think that is insidious and much different from a moralistic point of view than taking out a military target.

if i am living in a combat zone and one of the combatant forces moves into my town and hides tanks, missles, etc. in my barn, i'm moving out in a hurry, unless of course those moving equipment in aren't forcing me to stay at the point of a gun.

i think it noteworthy that the US and other countries have spent billions of dollars on precision bombing systems speficially to reduce the level of collateral casualties in war. war is hell. terrorism is insidious.
Post 04 Jan 2009, 03:14
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Vid, please debate with intelligence, not emotionally. HyperVista is your friend, you've stated that, try to see past that and connect the dot between how HyperVista posts and what is happening currently in Gaza, Afghanistan, Iraq etc etc. To make a difference you must stand up to people like HyperVista otherwise all you are doing is debating nonsense in a forum.

Get Tomasz to review this thread if you must, I'll happily stop posting if he believe HyperVista has been wrongly accused but even though I believe HyperVista is an acquaintance of Tomasz and I mean nothing to him, I'm confident he will see HyperVista's post as I do i.e US propaganda or as I state it, hate mongering.
Post 04 Jan 2009, 03:22
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
MichaelH wrote:
connect the dot between how HyperVista posts and what is happening currently in Gaza, Afghanistan, Iraq etc etc.

LOFL ... GAFAWWWWW Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Perhaps if I post differently, peace will spread across the face of the earth. Shocked
Post 04 Jan 2009, 03:25
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2906
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
MichaelH, I understand the one sidedness of HyperVista's posts are resonating with you poorly, but it is not hate mongering. At best the posts are in poor taste and insensitive to world events. Organized killing is not better than unorganized killing - no matter how much is paid for the wrapping paper. Some people mistake the calm after war with peace - they are fools.
Post 04 Jan 2009, 03:47
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
Sorry guys, but I simply don't see a moral equivalence between unintended civilian casualties of military action and the deliberate killing of innocent non-combatants, no moral equivallence at all. I am in no way minimizing the death of innocent civilians killed accidentally in millitary operations. I just simply can't draw a line of equivalence to terroist targetting innocent civilians puposefully.
Post 04 Jan 2009, 04:04
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2906
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
Post 04 Jan 2009, 04:20
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
bitRAKE: Turn on your TV and view on the news what is happening at this very moment in Gaza ..... poor taste you say, tell it to the loved ones of those people getting killed right now.

Thank you for at least posting something to show this forum is not totally deaf to what's happening at this very moment, the outrage here is out in out deafening .... sigh Sad
Post 04 Jan 2009, 04:28
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

< Last Thread | Next Thread >
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Copyright © 1999-2020, Tomasz Grysztar.

Powered by rwasa.