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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
about the great os, i think it should only support basic access to hardware for network purposes.
like threading all datas from a network, linux is much like this.
but with something else/
a fast execution of all network languages and files.
support a set of creatoin programs, like notepad, fasmx, blender, advanced paint, video;mp3; reader editor, and some other stuff.
Java, javascript, flash and divx should be supported.
that's all for me.
Post 03 Jan 2009, 04:18
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sinsi



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 692
Location: Adelaide
sinsi
I had enough trouble when my stepdad went from 98 to XP when he bought a new computer, now I dread the time he gets a new one with vista Rolling Eyes
As for linux (or even a mac), he would throw something through the monitor...probably me Laughing

edfed: sounds like you want linux...
Post 03 Jan 2009, 04:20
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
revolution wrote:
drhowarddrfine wrote:
... you shouldn't be trying to make Linux act like Windows.
This is part of my point above. You can't go telling the average user that "you shouldn't be trying to make Linux act like Windows". They will run away.
If they want something that acts like Windows then maybe they should stay with Windows but the two act mostly similar but if one wants exact replication then that's not reasonable. It's like expecting a Mac to work like Windows.
Post 03 Jan 2009, 04:30
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dosin



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 337
dosin
Quote:
if one wants exact replication then that's not reasonable


Its like getting anything else... a car, cellphone... or any other device..
You want it to work! and work well with no headaches...
Its not windows - your right!

But people want it to act like an OS.. If your on the net and cant load
a page because of no support for it .... That sucks.. Does not meet requirements that are espected of a good OS! and thats just one reason!
is that not reasonable?

Mac is going to be my next OS.. I am going to buy one this year...
Mac has came a long way.. and with the probs with vista.. Is a good opportunity for them to get people to switch! Very Happy

I would like to see one day were linux could offer more support/drivers/ games ect... I would use it more... but until then its just a hobby OS...

I also use MenuetOS and Dex4u sometimes... and working on my own OS..
it is called Dark OS maybe one day I will get enough finished to post!...
Post 03 Jan 2009, 04:49
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
dosin: I'm please vista worked well for you. I won't go into the never ending problems I've had (some I've solved, some I haven't) as revolution asked as I'm totally sick of vista and just don't care any more.

Quote:

... you shouldn't be trying to make Linux act like Windows.


Why not???? Download Ubuntu and try it. It does all windows does but it's easier too use.
Post 03 Jan 2009, 09:33
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
[quote="dosin"]
Quote:

But people want it to act like an OS.. If your on the net and cant load
a page because of no support for it .... That sucks.. Does not meet requirements that are espected of a good OS! and thats just one reason!
is that not reasonable?
But you are implying that is so and it is not.
Quote:

Mac is going to be my next OS.. I am going to buy one this year...
Mac has came a long way.. and with the probs with vista.. Is a good opportunity for them to get people to switch! Very Happy
Mac is based on FreeBSD. It doesn't act like Windows either. OT: 50% of college students use Macs. Apple sales are at an all time high. At my son's college, he and his roommate are the only people who don't use a Mac. Guess what my son wants as his next notebook.
Quote:

I would like to see one day were linux could offer more support/drivers/ games ect... I would use it more... but until then its just a hobby OS...
Hobby for you. Remember, Google runs on Linux as does most of the internet, IBM, etc.
Post 03 Jan 2009, 15:49
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
driver and hardware unification is the reason why windows have so many success.
and don't think that the hardware manufacturer had decided to do their hardware only compatible with windows...
in fact, M$ pay them for this uncompatibility.
it is logic, because why do we use windows?
because it supports all hardware.

why does they support hardware and linux not?
because they pay, and it is the reason why they are the master.

after, if you find a PC fully compatible with a linux distro, don't seek no more, use linux.

only problem under linux ia the absence of easy way to execute a org 100h code.
Post 03 Jan 2009, 17:35
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Picnic



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 1287
Location: behind the arc
Picnic
drhowarddrfine wrote:
thimis wrote:

A comercial program we are using on my work, and afaik also used by many other companys here in Greece, runs only in Windows.
And we have some people trained to use it. There is 24 hours technical support e.t.c

So, i imagine myself walking in some sunny day and say
Boys & girls today we will change our OS....

Unrealistic, it would really affect negatively our office happiness. Very Happy
If that software was ported to Linux, and everyone walked in one day and sat at their terminals with that program open in front of them on Linux, how would anything be different?


Hi drhowarddrfine,
I guess that in such a case it won't be any different.
But this is not happening, people i work for don't know what Linux is, and simply they are not interested to learn even what it's all about.
Post 05 Jan 2009, 11:56
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
thimis wrote:


I guess that in such a case it won't be any different.
That's my point. I can't think of how it would be different with any product. They all work pretty much the same no matter what OS they run on. So the question is, are they using Windows because, uh, well, uh, every one else is? Or is the reason, uh, everyone else is? Smile
Post 05 Jan 2009, 15:28
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
I use Windows & Linux. Vista Basic on my laptop, and Slackware 12.1 on my desktop.

Works great, and probably I'll kick Windows out of my laptop to.

Sure Linux is sometimes prettfy difficult, but there's a joy on learning it. Wink
Post 07 Jan 2009, 14:34
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Raedwulf



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: United Kingdom
Raedwulf
My view as a programmer:

Linux Pros

    Easier to use, less frustrating.
    Faster to use - once you learn how to use it.
    Provides almost everything you need as open source software - allowing you to modify software to your own needs, or fix them if they have problems.
    Ability to connect to any other linux computer through ssh really quickly and do things on other computers which windows would require a remote desktop which is ewww... slow!
    Seems to run faster on all the computers i've ever install linux on. (except one computer which i found i installed Linux on a failing harddisk - which finally died 2 weeks ago Razz)
    Software development is a piece of cake, most dependencies are installed in "relatively" sane areas.
    Package Manager!!!


Linux Cons

    Hardware support usually less than that desired.
    Although a lot of windows software can be run in Wine, not all can.


Windows Pros

    Large software base - easy to find software.
    Windows games work on windows.... (unless its vista)


Windows Cons

    Try to put all the dependencies in any project is a real Pain In The Ar... Neck. Each dependency must be installed separately and linked in manually.
    Software that you want usually end in Buy or Purchase. Open source software is a real pain to install.
    There's no decent terminal. (There is the powershell but wtf .NET!)
    There's no decent commandline tools (All of linux can be operated from command line.)
    WINDOWS ROT!!!

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Raedwulf
Post 08 Jan 2009, 07:24
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Raedwulf



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: United Kingdom
Raedwulf
Casual User
Linux Pros
Ubuntu does provide new users with a lot of help and support. (through forums, wiki)
Supports everything a casual user (not a worktask-related user) needs for free.
Linux problems are always fixable.
Less downtime, everything can be installed and reinstalled without any reboots unless you install a new kernel.

Linux Cons
Ubuntu tries its best to be a Fisherprice toy as does Windows, but Windows in hiding its internals does mean the user has far less places to go wrong.
Hardware sometimes doesn't work, or doesn't work 100% - that may distress users who want the job to be done as they plug it in. (Not really a fault of linux, but it is a disadvantage nonetheless (blame manufacturers) - but it is not as bad as it once was)
Help with your system comes online, you rarely find it elsewhere. (bad thing if your internet connection dies)
You must install linux yourself (most the time).
You may have hard time finding solutions to your problems.

Windows Pros
Most hardware works out of the box.... unless its not Vista compatible and its old!
Most people use windows, so you can always ask for help in real-life.
Most computers come with Windows preinstalled.
People are familiar with it.

Windows Cons
Spyware, crap accumulates on windows.
It gets slower...
and slower...
and slower...
and slower...
and BSOD...
Ok vista isn't that bad in that respect but its a...
memory hog
When something goes wrong, you reboot.
When something might have gone wrong, you reboot.
When something is really wrong, you reformat.
When windows is slow, you reformat.
You hear a lot of downtime?
[/b]

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Raedwulf
Post 08 Jan 2009, 07:34
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Raedwulf



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: United Kingdom
Raedwulf
New user
Linux pros
Ubuntu does provide new users with a lot of help and support.
New users get to learn how to use the system and not get fooled by the "shortcuts" of doing things on windows. (I have seen many users on windows simply use the desktop for virtually everything - and when I say, "Copy a file", they say "What???".

Linux cons
Here it comes with hardware and software.

Quote:

Why doesn't Norton Antivirus work?
Well apart from most viruses don't target linux, windows software doesn't work on linux.

But I spent $50 on it!
You should be able to return it.

Why did I have to buy it?
You listened to that sales rep too long.

I did tell him I had linux!
Yes but he probably didn't know what linux was.

Why doesn't this webcam work?
You need to find drivers for it.

I stuck the CD like it said on the box.
No you have to search for it on the internet.

How do I do that?
Use Google.

What's google?
.... let me show you...

Ok.... What if I can't find it?
You ask on forums or search on wikis (Ubuntu Wiki).

What is a forum and a wiki?
Here - http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php
Wiki - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/

Get the gist? Unless you really have a linux guy handy, a newbie has no chance in hell he's going to do that on his own - because there's no one to hold his hand!



Can't be bothered to write out the windows pros and cons, basically they are the same as the ones for the casual user.

There's also the problem with corporate software that spefically target windows. Wine should handle the bulk of them, but there will be the odd piece that rejects Wine and you have to suffer windows.

Personally I have not required to use Windows at all for the past few months except the occasional software demo and the occasional game.
But for all hours of a normal day it is Linux and linux only Razz.

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Raedwulf
Post 08 Jan 2009, 07:48
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Picnic



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 1287
Location: behind the arc
Picnic
My experience with Linux is not bad.
As i said on another topic i've install and tried various distos in the late 90's.
One of them -Storm Linux- stayed on my hard disk for almost a year.
I did manage then to install most of my devices, including printer, external CD-Writer, Zip Iomega Drive e.t.c, although not easy.
I remember using a boot menu (Windows 98 - Storm Linux - Dos 6.22) all worked fine on an old 486 machine Smile


Anyway, slightly off-topic, here are the 2008 results from google analytics about Freestuff.gr a big Greek portal about web design & technology.

Operating Systems:

1. Windows 96.54%
2. Linux 1.86%
3. Macintosh 1.12%
4. (not set) 0.31%
5. SymbianOS 0.07%
6. iPhone 0.05%
7. iPod 0.03%
8. Playstation 3 0.01%
9. SunOS 0.01%
10. Playstation Portable 0.01%
Post 12 Jan 2009, 11:22
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17248
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
I do wish that Linux (and maybe FreeBSD also) would become more popular with the public because this would bring with the manufacturer support (for drivers and general info). However I see many things hindering the general acceptance. I've listed many of them somewhere above in this thread so I won't repeat it ad nauseum again. But suffice to say I do strongly feel that many strong Linux advocates need to lighten up and not be so higher-than-thou about the system. For sure Linux is okay for many things but let's be honest it is not exactly wonderful either. Windows fails in a lot of ways, but so does Linux fail in a lot of ways. And the reverse is also true, Windows excels in a lot of ways and Linux excels in a lot of ways. The main difference is that Windows fails in ways that the general public don't often care about, Linux fails in ways that the general public do care about. Windows excels in ways that the general public do care about and Linux excels in ways that the general public don't care about.

I feel confident that the general public would be happy to use Linux if it was not associated with a high-tech-knowledge-requirement and a your-on-your-own fear when something doesn't work. These are the types of perceptions that people have. Even though those perceptions may not true does not matter, if people do have these perceptions then they have to be changed before it can progress to a more popular system.

So the problem becomes how to change the perceptions? And this is really hard to do. Windows is sold for money so Microsoft can allocate resources to marketing/propaganda to change peoples perceptions. Linux does not have to advantage. It is free so of course no money for any type of advertising. Word of mouth is great for many things but the negative as well as the positive opinions can travel equally fast. A lot of MS advertising is false (or at the very least missing important details) but the general public don't care about fact checking and they accept it as true.

I don't have an answer though. I have thought about how to break the MS almost-monopoly but I keep coming up blank. Everything I can come up with always fails in one of two ways. 1) MS has too much money and will always just kill Linux by duplicating all the good things that are initiated there and prove successful (cf. IE vs Netscape). This is the problem with killer apps, once Linux has a killer app MS will jump in and make their version also. Stalemate. and 2) It relies on MS self-destructing and generally stopping support and also to stop writing code. Neither is going to happen any time soon.
Post 12 Jan 2009, 11:58
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
revolution wrote:
I do strongly feel that many strong Linux advocates need to lighten up and not be so higher-than-thou about the system.
You mean in the way Windows advocates get that higher-than-thou attitude about Windows?

Here's the difference between a Windows advocate and a Linux advocate. A Windows advocate gets mesmerized by the 'bling'; the pretty blinking lights. Linux advocates want to know how it works under the hood. So criticism from a Linux advocate is far more serious than anything a Windows advocate could come up with.

(After writing the next paragraph, I realized it may seem OT but, to me, it relates to the above paragraph.)
Just yesterday I noticed something. I was a moderator (and now a listed expert) for a forum on web development. The board I moderated was HTML/CSS web development. I was poking around the other boards, particularly looking at the ASP and .NET stuff, when I saw some questions being asked, and not answered, that were actually HTML/CSS questions. I was wondering why they didn't ask them in the appropriate forum, HTML/CSS, until I realized these guys couldn't see what was under the hood! There was a wall of Microsoft code between their application and the HTML/CSS and they had NO idea how to edit the HTML/CSS to get it to do what they wanted! It was a huge revelation to me.

Quote:
Windows fails in a lot of ways, but so does Linux fail in a lot of ways.
Windows fails in significant ways that Linux would not.
Quote:
The main difference is that Windows fails in ways that the general public don't often care about
All the underlying technical details.
Quote:
Linux fails in ways that the general public do care about.
The bling.
Post 12 Jan 2009, 14:55
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17248
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
drhowarddrfine wrote:
You mean in the way Windows advocates get that higher-than-thou attitude about Windows?
Yes, that is what I mean. It is a size issue. When you are Goliath you are allowed to act higher-than-thou, but if you are small you are not allowed. This is basic psychology, not anything intrinsic about the positions. I was not trying to imply that the strong Windows advocates do not act higher-than-thou, because they do. But from the average Joe's perspective they are allowed to act that way because of the already higher position.
Post 12 Jan 2009, 15:04
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
you can try fool, my marvelous operating system..
it fails everywhere, then, it have all the bad from windows and linux, plus the bad from macos, dexos, menuetos, solaros, octaos, and XXXXos.
Post 12 Jan 2009, 19:44
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17248
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
edfed: Are you trying to advertise your OS? You don't seem to be doing a very good job at it. Perhaps you would, instead, like to participate in the debate. Maybe you can expound about what you see as the merits of proprietary OSes.
Post 12 Jan 2009, 19:53
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:

A Windows advocate gets mesmerized by the 'bling'; the pretty blinking lights. Linux advocates want to know how it works under the hood

wat a nice piece of bull shit claimed. Very Happy
Post 13 Jan 2009, 06:59
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