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dosin



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 337
dosin
wubi

instaling it was interseting... 1st time crashed... 2x okay... accessing the net.. was pretty simple - no prob for me.. but for most would a problem if not experienced with it (some have same prob with windows).. seting up a wireless... downloading .swf update to play video... ect...

plus still has 255 updates that need to be installed ..


The main prob with linux and different versions... They all have the same crappy software installed as a default... same games that were on a ealier versions that I played on when I was little kid... The chess looks like an old win dos program.. and the other ones just as bad.. should just remake or leave out..

I will use for devel..

Why would you choose Ubuntu over any other linux version!
looks and acts just like all the other linux systems I have used...
Red Hat
Mandrake
FreeBSD
and the list goes on...

even the one I used a long time ago when I was younger is not much different...
Post 15 Jan 2009, 17:48
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
dosin wrote:
instaling it was interseting... 1st time crashed...
Well, you are installing this on Windows.
Quote:

They all have the same crappy software installed as a default
Such as?
Quote:
... same games that were on a ealier versions that I played on when I was little kid... The chess looks like an old win dos program.. and the other ones just as bad
**sigh**
Quote:

Why would you choose Ubuntu over any other linux version!
Easy set up and installation.
Quote:
looks and acts just like all the other linux systems I have used...
Of course. What did you expect? Linux==Linux. GNU==GNU.
Quote:

FreeBSD
FreeBSD != Linux but FreeBSD can run most Linux apps plus its own.
Quote:

even the one I used a long time ago when I was younger is not much different...
Of course it is. Linux and FreeBSD evolve continuously. Or are you talking of the bling?
Post 15 Jan 2009, 18:44
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dosin



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 337
dosin
I am talking about progress...

even windows tries this good or bad... 95,98,windows ME, XP, Vista.. Win 7

Redhat versions are easy to install.. and other versions use a simular installer.. some may find probs with older versions with the set up

How long you been using linux?
Post 15 Jan 2009, 19:51
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
I still don't know what you mean by progress. Tries this good/bad at what?
Post 15 Jan 2009, 21:07
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dosin



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 337
dosin
Change is needed - good or bad...
windows does change... sometimes these changes are good and some are not!

When you download the latest version of linux .. they need to suply more up to date tool,games.. ect...

just to prove my point .. I am going to try more versions.. and if I get the same old stuff on all... what would that mean..

people are making some mods....

but I could build a package in a couple of weeks.. with an easy installer .. same old programs.. just slap a different name to it.. and its a new linux system..


you say because of easy setup and install.. Thats not a very good reason

Windows is easy to install also.. but you choose not to use it..
because its MS..

Is it that you dont like the MS OS or dont like MS.. or is it the same arg.. That programmers use that it should be open source... So they could make there OS run Windows apps..

Even if linux could run all windows apps.. People would not completely switch.. it would have to be better than MS in all aspects!

and there would begin the prob that someone stated ealier - who would control the money made by linux!

I just find it shocking that I just downloaded a version that has the exact same games and apps as an ealier version.. no progress...
now I will have to search for them.. and see if avail.. updated software!
Post 15 Jan 2009, 21:37
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
I disagree. There are several reason for me 'hating' Windows (even though I've never used Linux and used Windows/DOS all my life). One is the fact that it's proprietary -- Microsoft can even adopt the pay-as-you-use policy for all we know in the next couple of years. This would suck.

Second, you have to UPGRADE, not just update, from OS to OS. (because older ones get out of support). This is annoying, even if you crack it (that is no money wasted) -- because you can't just copy the registry files, you're stuck with reinstalling everything AND reconfiguring everything, because of the most shittiest idea ever conceived by man called "centralized" settings.

Third would be the pain of going into bloated OSes. And by bloat I don't necessarily mean slower, but bloated on the APPEARANCE, like with gradients, glassy when it shouldn't even be (doesn't make your job easier, in fact, it makes it harder!)

Cool buttons need to be big -- they need to be both text and graphics, can't be just a simple text-size (smallest possible)...

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Post 15 Jan 2009, 22:51
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
dosin wrote:
Change is needed - good or bad...
windows does change... sometimes these changes are good and some are not!

When you download the latest version of linux .. they need to suply more up to date tool
Such as what?
Quote:

but I could build a package in a couple of weeks.. with an easy installer .. same old programs.. just slap a different name to it.. and its a new linux system..
Yes you could.
Quote:

you say because of easy setup and install.. Thats not a very good reason
It seems that's what everyone says is bad about Linux but you say it's not an issue?
Quote:

Windows is easy to install also.. but you choose not to use it..
because its MS..

Is it that you dont like the MS OS or dont like MS.. or is it the same arg.. That programmers use that it should be open source... So they could make there OS run Windows apps..
This isn't part of the discussion.
Quote:

Even if linux could run all windows apps.. People would not completely switch.. it would have to be better than MS in all aspects!
It can run all the programs I ran on Windows...and its free and runs on all the hardware I have without needing to buy anything.
Quote:

and there would begin the prob that someone stated ealier - who would control the money made by linux!
The same people who control it now. Nobody.
Quote:

I just find it shocking that I just downloaded a version that has the exact same games and apps as an ealier version.. no progress...
now I will have to search for them.. and see if avail.. updated software!
You judge the value of an OS by the games it runs? Did you see the video of the window manager I linked to (in this thread I think)?
Post 15 Jan 2009, 23:44
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baldr



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 1651
baldr
Borsuc,

Even if they find this hideous idea (pay-as-you-use) appropriate, nobody could stop hackers from "unlocking" it. "If it runs, it could be hacked". Wink

As to about an upgrade -- several years (around ten, I don't remember exactly) I had helped my fellow to "circumvent" new BMW diagnostics software to work with his old equipment (around $3000 saved). It's usual practice, nothing to write home about. Wink

Those bells and whistles which add no functionality should be banned forever. Wink

Cool buttons also should be sound, for hearing impaired (pun intended).
Post 15 Jan 2009, 23:44
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dosin



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 337
dosin
Quote:
The same people who control it now. Nobody. (The money)


Ya! sure .. Then there would be linux lawsuits from all the linux versions against each other- wanting a peice of the action! Very Happy

Quote:
This isn't part of the discussion.

What - The great OS debate

Quote:
It seems that's what everyone says is bad about Linux but you say it's not an issue?


Depends on the version! Thats what makes it difficult..
Some older installers are a pain! I have been there and done that!
newer versions are not that hard!

Linux has been around for a long time... will never go away.. It will
allways have a home on the net! just not in everyones homes!
Maybe one day I will make my own version just for fun..
Post 16 Jan 2009, 03:04
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17279
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
So far I've now got six different proprietary OSes (for six different embedded systems) that I maintain. I think these are by far much better than any of the commercial OSes available now or in the past. They do precisely what they need to do without any extraneous bloat or unused functions/features. They are fast and efficient. They use less power due to less overhead. They can be easily modified/updated because I have the source code. And most importantly, I understand everything that they do.

Of course, I realise that this will not suit the average person on the street since it requires writing one's own OS. But nonetheless by far my most liked OSes are the ones I have written myself.

Writing the first one is the hardest. The second comes much easier and the rest follow like walk in the park. So I encourage everyone to get that first one finished and working well before moving on to the next. Because then the hard part is over and you can write your future OSes in just a short time. Don't cheat by copying the Linux kernel code, you won't learn anything that way. Do it the proper way, start from a blank editor window. Plan it ahead of time. Use flowcharts. Test it continuously along the way. Don't get distracted by other things. Always do at least something each day, even if it is just one line of code, because that way it will get finished.
Post 20 Jan 2009, 07:51
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neville



Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 507
Location: New Zealand
neville
Please do tell more, revolution. What platforms do these OS's run on? How were they developed?

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Post 20 Jan 2009, 18:14
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
drhowarddrfine wrote:
You judge the value of an OS by the games it runs?
No but when I want to play games I will have to use Windows -- doesn't mean it is better, but it is used more. Because of apps. (this was just an example)
Post 20 Jan 2009, 20:35
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Then you don't have to play the games that come with it. There are hundreds of other free and better games available with a click.
Post 20 Jan 2009, 22:11
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17279
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
neville wrote:
Please do tell more, revolution. What platforms do these OS's run on? How were they developed?
Erm, perhaps in another thread, but not here.
drhowarddrfine wrote:
Then you don't have to play the games that come with it. There are hundreds of other free and better games available with a click.
Let's say that I want to do A, B and C with my computer. I discover that both A and B can the done with OS P and OS Q. But C can only be done if I use OS Q. Which OS should I use?

Many games published today are only compatible with Windows (blame the game writers for that if you like, but blaming someone won't solve the problem). If other OSes don't have fully functional emulators for Windows then people will have no option but to use Windows to run the games that they enjoy.
Post 21 Jan 2009, 01:01
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
That's why I think Wine must be a top priority -- so people can shift and the developers be aware that Linux is used, so they program for it.

Now it seems that people don't use it, and developers don't develop for it (well most anyway). To increase it you must have more apps developed for it, but that means you'll need developers to develop for it first. It's a dead end both ways. Only Wine can "save" it.
Post 21 Jan 2009, 01:07
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
@revolution, you were talking about the chess program, which I responded to, not the big games.

@Borsuc, those of us who use 'nix for work have all the programs we need. For those who want games and need blinking lights and eye candy, it's there but not packaged like Windows for the masses. I'm trying to think of an analogy. Something like musicians who go out on stage and sing something you hear on the radio every day but, off stage, the music, songs and instruments they play might be very different, much more serious. I had an excellent analogy in the back of my head but lost it.

I don't know that Linux can get any large share of the desktop unless it gets an evangelist that people admire. To an extent, Steve Jobs works for Apple but even then I don't get a feeling he's the one so Apple leads the way with "cool". Linux needs a rock star leader. I don't mean jumping around on stage. I mean someone people get excited to see and listen to that can organize a grassroots movement.
Post 21 Jan 2009, 03:11
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17279
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Conversation in a game writer company boardroom:

CEO: I'm getting emails from people running Linux and FreeBSD asking us to port our games to their OS.

President: Yeah, me too. Should we spend our time/effort/money to do it?

Analyst: Windows is 90+% of the market. If we take our developers away from the Windows products and onto any of those minor OSes then we will be ignoring 90% of the market while that happens. It would be better to concentrate on our new game "SuperExtraUltraAlienKiller5" and get it out ASAP. We will make more money that way. Besides, those Linux people never want to pay for anything anyway so where is the profit in that!

CEO: Right, seems clear, forget about that tiny 10-% market, there is more money to be made with selling new games for Windows.

President: I'll just go and delete all that email.
Post 21 Jan 2009, 03:13
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17279
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
drhowarddrfine wrote:
@revolution, you were talking about the chess program, which I responded to, not the big games.
I think you mean dosin?
Post 21 Jan 2009, 03:16
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Describing his own, proprietary operating systems, revolution wrote:
...
They do precisely what they need to do without any extraneous bloat or unused functions/features. They are fast and efficient. They use less power due to less overhead. They can be easily modified/updated because I have the source code. And most importantly, I understand everything that they do. ...
In response, Neville, reading my mind, wrote:

Please do tell more, revolution. What platforms do these OS's run on? How were they developed?
Ever coy, revolution responding, wrote:

perhaps in another thread, but not here.
What would be quite educational, and very informative, would be a paragraph overview, describing in outline format, the capabilities and construction of any one of the seven OS. (six plus your newest version, for the FASM forum!)
Smile
Post 21 Jan 2009, 12:16
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17279
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
drhowarddrfine wrote:
I don't know that Linux can get any large share of the desktop unless it gets an evangelist that people admire. To an extent, Steve Jobs works for Apple but even then I don't get a feeling he's the one so Apple leads the way with "cool". Linux needs a rock star leader. I don't mean jumping around on stage. I mean someone people get excited to see and listen to that can organize a grassroots movement.
Here I somewhat agree. But not until it is ready and can meet the needs, wants and expectations of the average computer user. One major problem though is solving the fractionalisation, i.e. which version of Linux to promote?
Post 21 Jan 2009, 16:04
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