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DOS386



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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DOS386
> what OS do you really rely upon and use daily and enjoy it beside windows OS.

Refuse to answer.

> XP and vista are crap, they do not support completely the V86 mode, my favourite.

Your crippleware favourite. Laughing

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Post 02 Jan 2009, 06:44
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MattBro



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 37
MattBro
I have several linux partitions on my box, though I mostly run windows xp 64. Frankly I'm not that impressed with any of the bloatware they call operating systems that runs these days, though the latest Ubuntu is a reasonably productive environment.

You'd think that as hardware performance improves, the software would be more responsive. It still takes way too long to boot and way to long to launch important app.s like a web browser, though I think linux beats MS on this one.

Linux has a lot more open source development tools than MS. It has one tool that's indispensible call valgrind, for detecting memory leaks and bad memory references. You can get similar tools for windows but they are very expensive.

On the other hand, for C++ coding MS's intellisense is very useful and is not easily duplicated under linux. Also of course there is poor gaming support under linux.

I think the standard development environments, especially for C++, have gotten way too complex. You can't even link code unless you are using the same compiler version and the same run time libraries. Assembly actually starts looking attractive when you find yourself wasting entire days just getting the compiler and linker settings right for your application or for the library you are trying to use.

By the way for the person who's using total commander, there are probably half a dozen file manager programs on linux that are keyboard compatible with this program.
http://168hours.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/10-total-commander-alternatives-for-linux/

I've used a bunch of them and some of them are very feature rich.
Post 02 Jan 2009, 07:47
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Picnic



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 1288
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Picnic
sleepsleep wrote:

what OS do you really rely upon and use daily and enjoy it beside windows OS.

Windows only, various flavors at work & home (98,Win2K,XP-Vista)

However, mostly in the past i've install and experiment on various Linux disto's like Caldera, Suse, Corel and others i don't remember now.
Post 02 Jan 2009, 11:50
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
I would like to direct everybody's attention to another thread where you can post about which OS is better/worse.

http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=9649

Perhaps a mod would be kind enough to move all the appropriate posts to there? This thread went seriously off topic quickly.


Last edited by revolution on 02 Jan 2009, 14:25; edited 1 time in total
Post 02 Jan 2009, 14:02
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
sinsi wrote:
Quote:
Give her the admin password for her pc, afterall if she stuffs up, it's all free software and she'll actually learn something.

She's a typist, she types letters, probably all day. She doesn't have time to learn anything but msword.
If she stuffs things up she doesn't type.

You've never worked in an office?
How do you update her Windows PC in the office? I don't know if there are other ways with Ubuntu but, like I said above, it's a one click button at the top of the screen.
Post 02 Jan 2009, 14:11
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
drhowarddrfine wrote:
How do you update her Windows PC in the office?
Auto update at 3am when everyone is sleeping (or at least not working).
Post 02 Jan 2009, 14:15
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
MattBro wrote:

On the other hand, for C++ coding MS's intellisense is very useful and is not easily duplicated under linux.
I think an equivalent is available under emacs.
Quote:
Also of course there is poor gaming support under linux.
To be clear, Linux has nothing to do with that. The game writers just don't write their stuff for Linux, which is a shame.
Quote:

Assembly actually starts looking attractive when you find yourself wasting entire days just getting the compiler and linker settings right for your application or for the library you are trying to use.
Absolutely agree!
Post 02 Jan 2009, 14:18
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
revolution wrote:
drhowarddrfine wrote:
How do you update her Windows PC in the office?
Auto update at 3am when everyone is sleeping (or at least not working).
You can do the same with Linux. Called 'cron'.
Post 02 Jan 2009, 14:19
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
Borsuc wrote:
I'm also including BIG ones like 3DS Max and Photoshop

The Gimp may not be as complete as PS, but it's enough for most of the work. And Blender is really good, you should try it (under Windows if you like): http://www.blender.org/download/get-blender/ .

Borsuc wrote:
I like the system in DOS or Windows with the drive naming convention, it makes it much easier to organize (I heard Linux likes to place a lot of folders on the root of the drive? can it handle partitions?)

Unix file systems handle thing differently. They use a single root directory regardless of how many devices are attached and mounted. And yes, they can handle partitions. On some systems you may in fact need an extra "Swap" partition; on other systems (BSD), partitions are called slices instead. It's a terminology thing for differenciating BIOS partitions (MBR) from disklabel partitions.
You can always automount your Windows partitions (or any kind of device/disk/partition) under any directory by configuring one file: "/etc/fstab". You create subdirectories under /mnt/ to mimic the Windows' drive naming system (volume labels). For instance, you have a partition labeled "D2P3" under Windows (for physical disk 2, partition 3). You create the subdirectory "/mnt/Win/D2P3" and modify "/etc/fstab" to link the mount point "/mnt/Win/D2P3" to the device representing the third partition of the second physical disk. Now browsing "/mnt/Win/D2P3" shows your Windows files. As simple as that.



edfed wrote:
windows98!

The only good thing about it is its low resources usage. But Win2K is in many ways better than its non-NT predecessors (Win9x) and successors (XP and up).

edfed wrote:
and linux isn't able to boot/reboot in less than 30 seconds

I don't know about Linux, but FreeBSD can reboot/shutdown in less than 30 sec on 10+ years old computers. And you can speed up the booting process by removing many deamons that you may not really need.



dosin wrote:
Yes - it is a lot of work to install and get up and running...

And Windows is easily installed in 30-45 minutes without much user intervention, but then needs more than an hour for system configuration, user profiles, group policies, user interface tweaking, services configuration, registry "hacking", etc.




Thank you for pointing out PCMan file manager. I've always been looking for orthodox file managers but never could find any good one. That may change with PCMan.
Post 02 Jan 2009, 15:22
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
ManOfSteel wrote:
And Windows is easily installed in 30-45 minutes without much user intervention, but then needs more than an hour for system configuration, user profiles, group policies, user interface tweaking, services configuration, registry "hacking", etc.
Oh how true that is. I hate setting up a new Windows system. The registry, IMO, is really a bad idea. Impossible to backup just program-X's keys unless you know where every key is put (not as simple as it may seem).
Post 02 Jan 2009, 15:29
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
For those who still didn't get my message. It's not that Linux is bad. It's because there are too many things out there that you can choose from. And a different environment than Windows.

Actually, if you think about it, it's not even a "Windows" environment but rather DOS environment (compared to *nix). So I got used to that Sad

Things that confuse me:

1) Driver compatibility (don't get me wrong, even XP64 has such issues!)
2) Window managers??? Which one? How to install? How to use? (I got fond of 'installing' under Windows Sad)
3) Linux distros... which one to pick? There's too many. Like having 100 editions of Windows XP (ok I exaggerated).
4) "Desktop"? Do I need to install desktops too?

I thought Linux comes with a Windows Manager.

I don't know if I'll have time these parts for testing with VirtualBox though, as I have already too many problems with the hardware & some busy issues... but I'll probably give it a try later Wink

So what I need: Is there a Linux distribution or 'package' that approximates a classic Windows environment? (i.e not fancy GUI, I even turned XP into classic look). As close as possible in 'accessibility' to Windows XP classic style but of course having different features...


And why would I choose Mac? It has more compatibility problems than even Linux (I mean, with the huge amount of "Windows" apps I have, at least Linux has wine so some could run), and it's still not open source... It would be like choosing a worse Microsoft product than I already have, like switching to Vista Razz

MattBro wrote:
I think the standard development environments, especially for C++, have gotten way too complex. You can't even link code unless you are using the same compiler version and the same run time libraries. Assembly actually starts looking attractive when you find yourself wasting entire days just getting the compiler and linker settings right for your application or for the library you are trying to use.
LOL I got once an Ocaml source code, which I wanted to modify (I don't know the language, just modify some constants a bit and remove a piece of code), and it needs a C++ compiler to build native apps. You can't imagine how frustrated I was when things turned out ugly and incompatible, and setting environment variables correctly when IT IS NOT WRITTEN IN THE FREAKING MANUAL SO I HAD TO GUESS (well search the net rather).

And guess what? After I set it all properly, building with Microsoft Visual Studio gave me INCOMPATIBILITY issues. Heck Microsoft even have incompatibilities in their .lib files between NEAR version of a Platform SDK and Visual Studio release.

So I finally gave up in that and got MinGW environment and it compiled fine Razz (still I had to set a freaking environment variable by GUESSING but that wasn't as bad).

I still use Visual Studio for C because I got used to it.

MattBro wrote:
By the way for the person who's using total commander, there are probably half a dozen file manager programs on linux that are keyboard compatible with this program.
http://168hours.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/10-total-commander-alternatives-for-linux/
That would be me Wink
Ok but I hope they are quite as good as Total Commander. I just got too used to it organizing my files and it comes natural like typing on the keyboard now.

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Post 02 Jan 2009, 15:33
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
Borsuc wrote:
For those who still didn't get my message. It's not that Linux is bad. It's because there are too many things out there that you can choose from.
Yes, this is a Linux issue. If you study it enough, it does break down into maybe 3 camps. There is also a site that gives a good synopsis of each one though making it somewhat easier to choose. At first, it might just be easier to choose a popular one.
Quote:

Things that confuse me:

1) Driver compatibility (don't get me wrong, even XP64 has such issues!)
I know there are issues here but, personally, have not had one.
Quote:

2) Window managers??? Which one? How to install? How to use? (I got fond of 'installing' under Windows Sad)
Again, it might be easier to choose something popular, like Gnome and then install another till you find one you prefer (you can install more than one and switch back and forth). See my link to xman.org above(?). Some will say that this is good because of choice.
Quote:

3) Linux distros... which one to pick? There's too many. Like having 100 editions of Windows XP (ok I exaggerated).
Linux is not really my OS. FreeBSD users lean toward Gentoo because it's more BSD like. Ubuntu and Fedora are the most user friendly. Start with those.
Quote:

4) "Desktop"? Do I need to install desktops too?
No.
Quote:

I thought Linux comes with a Windows Manager.
Linux is the OS. GNU contains the window managers. Hence, Richard Stallman gets upset if you don't call it GNU/Linux. If you install plain Linux, you get a command line only so most people go with something like Ubuntu. But Ubuntu makes it difficult to drop the gui when you only want to use the command line and not use a gui.
Quote:

I don't know if I'll have time these parts for testing with VirtualBox though, as I have already too many problems with the hardware & some busy issues... but I'll probably give it a try later Wink
Just get wubi. You install it like any other program and dual boot. Won't touch your Windows install and you can uninstall wubi WHEN you get ready to drop Windows and want a complete Linux install Smile .
Post 02 Jan 2009, 16:36
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MattBro



Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 37
MattBro
Borsuc wrote:

Ok but I hope they are quite as good as Total Commander. I just got too used to it organizing my files and it comes natural like typing on the keyboard now.


I'd say a few of them are even more advanced. The one that comes with KDE has a ton of features. I use that one and I actually use vifm, since I know most of the relevant vi keybindings, so it makes it fairly productive for me.

Quote:

LOL I got once an Ocaml source code, which I wanted to modify (I don't know the language, just modify some constants a bit and remove a piece of code), and it needs a C++ compiler to build native apps. You can't imagine how frustrated I was when things turned out ugly and incompatible, and setting environment variables correctly when IT IS NOT WRITTEN IN THE FREAKING MANUAL SO I HAD TO GUESS (well search the net rather).


I at one time used ocaml fairly heavily myself. I never tried to modify the compiler though! I did write a lot of wrapper files for C and it was way too difficult. Maybe swig has automated that now. The support for windows was never very good. Most of the interesting libraries just wouldnt work due to various dependencies.

I had much better luck with Haskell, for my functional programming language fix. In the end though special purposes scripting languages seem always to be easier to develop in, (e.g. Python or Matlab). To that end perhaps the most productive low level language is Forth and it's variants. It's too bad the stack based machines never took off except in the virtual world as Java byte code or dot net.

For the same reason that C/C++ compilers are incredibly annoying to work with, most of the big operating systems suffer as well. There are just too many parameters to mess with and not enough support or smart automation. Some of the newer Linux distros have really improved though. Ubuntu is as easy to set up as windows and actually probably easier for generic hardware.

In general I like the Debian based distros (like Ubuntu) since they can be upgraded, though I've noticed that upgrading is never very clean and of course upgrading windows is even worse. Debian itself is kind of crappy though, inasmuch as it's so easy to destabilize your system once you realize you want newer software.

Just to rant a little more. I really think that software development needs some new technology in order to manage an exponential growth in complexity. Bad OS's are a mere symptom of the overall problem.

Higher level languages and scripting languages have helped in some ways by abstracting away some of the complexity, but they have performance and in some cases stability issues. Perhaps AI, theorem proving, formal program verification, or statistical techniques can help here. This is one reason I'm using fasm as a backend for a very ambitious compiler.

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Post 03 Jan 2009, 07:10
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Chewy509



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 297
Location: Bris-vegas, Australia
Chewy509
Trying to get the thread back on topic...

At home my PC is Sun Solaris Express (SXCE nv101).

Since I only tend to play older games, most of those work perfectly in Wine or have FOSS ports available. (The only reason I would have Win installed is for games).

I've been running SXCE (in various versions) for approx the last 2 years, and before that was FreeBSD. I've been totally MS Windows free for about 3.5yrs.

The rest of what I do all work fine in SXCE, eg StarOffice for work stuff, MPlayer for multi-media, Wine for gaming, etc...
Post 05 Jan 2009, 00:11
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
Chewy509 wrote:

I've been running SXCE (in various versions) for approx the last 2 years, and before that was FreeBSD.

Can you elaborate why you prefer Solaris to either FreeBSD or Linux?
Post 05 Jan 2009, 13:14
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Chewy509



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 297
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Chewy509
tom tobias wrote:
Chewy509 wrote:

I've been running SXCE (in various versions) for approx the last 2 years, and before that was FreeBSD.

Can you elaborate why you prefer Solaris to either FreeBSD or Linux?

64bit nVidia drivers, Java implementation that works without major issues (including browser plug-ins), Adobe Flash Support, Real Player native client, Published Documentation, Training Courses and certification programs (I'm a Sun Certified SysAdmin), decent support network, dTrace.

ZFS is also a major draw card, however I'm not using ZFS at the moment due to current hardware setup. Other things like Zones (similar to BSD Jails, but allow other *NIX kernels to run), xVM and SMF are also handy to have. But they're more enterprise level technologies that aren't really needed in a desktop.

I could switch to *BSD or Linux at a drop of a hat, since most of my applications also work in those platforms as well (or there are possible alternatives), but I want to deal with a singular platform/OS not a collection of packages thrown together and called a distribution that may not be supported as a complete system next week. (I do know that FreeBSD is an OS and not a distribution).

I've also noticed that some Linux developers don't care about other platforms (in a similar vain to Windows dev's), but what makes them worse than Windows developers, is that if they took a small bit of care their software would work on Solaris, *BSD, Mac (using X) without issues, and they tend to have this anti-everything attitude that is not Linux. At least Windows dev's have the excuse that Windows and *BSD/Linux/Sol/Mac are so different that porting between platforms takes more work and may not be worth the effort if they rely too much on MS only technologies (like DirectX, etc).
Post 06 Jan 2009, 02:44
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dosin



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 337
dosin
Anyone wanting to see what each linux desktops look like and versions:

http://thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?

Has screen shots of tons of linux systems!

some with intersting looks:
http://thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=Linpus%209.4%20Lite


Last edited by dosin on 06 Jan 2009, 04:32; edited 2 times in total
Post 06 Jan 2009, 04:21
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
I have downloaded Mint which is Ubuntu based. Someone here have tried it? It would be a pain if results that I have to go back to Debian later...
Post 06 Jan 2009, 04:24
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Chewy509 wrote:

I've also noticed that some Linux developers don't care about other platforms (in a similar vain to Windows dev's), but what makes them worse than Windows developers, is that if they took a small bit of care their software would work on Solaris, *BSD, Mac (using X) without issues, and they tend to have this anti-everything attitude that is not Linux.
You mean like Windows devs? I have as yet to meet a Windows dev that knows anything outside of Windows.

btw, ZFS works on FreeBSD now. How much, I don't recall, but I notice a lot of discussion about it.
Post 06 Jan 2009, 05:08
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sinsi



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
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sinsi
Quote:
You mean like Windows devs? I have as yet to meet a Windows dev that knows anything outside of Windows.

So, you agree then?
Quote:
You mean like Linux devs? I have as yet to meet a Linux dev that knows anything outside of Linux.
Post 06 Jan 2009, 05:39
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