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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
Hello guys,

Since I am somewhat unfamiliar in this area, and I didn't know where else to post this, I thought you might help out. Basically, I have big problems in deciding between how should I backup some data (and music Razz).

First of all, I could have done this with DVDs but since I recently read their lifetime is small (2-5 yrs for CDs, for DVDs they say could be even smaller, because of the denser data), not to mention that I personally have some faulty CDs so I kinda know it from experience how easy they can fail.

I'm not sure about hard disks, they fail kinda rarely (from my experience) but are fragile or so I've heard -- an external HDD wouldn't do the trick, will it? Since it's susceptible to magnetic fields or shocks and such... not to mention, I read somewhere that it forgets all data in 8 years if not powered (well not that low but meh).

Basically, I want a long-term storage medium. that lasts for good amounts of time without being powered. Not to mention, it would be a big bonus if it wouldn't be teared apart from magnetic fields (I know it's almost impossible for anything to resist electric shocks though, too bad Sad). I heard Flash is very good for physical damage. It also wears out after a certain amount of writes, but that's not a concern at all -- since the data is supposed to be written and backed up -- albeit, very rarely rewritten. It doesn't wear out by reading, right?

But the most important question I have regarding flash is... how much does the data stand up there without being powered (and even powered)? A lifetime? (that would be enough Laughing)

Also is Kingston a good brand for flash? I know they make very long warranties (sometimes even for life, as in the RAM I have), so they have to be confident in their products, I believe.

Notice, the writing speed isn't critical at all, could be as low as 0.5 MB/s. The reading speed isn't necessarily critical either (even 4 MB/s is enough for me). After all, it's about backup, I can wait a few hours if I must. Then, what kind of memory cards are good enough for such "sturdy" and "longevity"? SD or CompactFlash or something else?

what about USB sticks? (although I don't really prefer these).

The "Kingston SDHC Class4 (16GB)" seems very good with a low price for its capacity (due to low speeds which don't bother me), is it sturdy and how do would you guess its longevity?

Also please tell me if a flash wears out by reading it or using it too much (NOT writing to it! cause I know that wears it out). For example I could use a card to listen to the song collection I have without having to use the hard disk for that (I know, just an example!) so practically I would use it every day if so (READING from it, not writing). Does it wear out after use or does it decrease its longevity?

Oh and please do tell if I am correct in saying that an electrical shock can wipe out a Flash easily, cause I am pretty sure it does (not that it would be a problem, it would wipe out any other medium anyway).


Or are there more robust ROM alternatives for end users like me (i.e not businesses), which can only be programmed once (that's not a problem)? Or are these strictly only to BIOSes and stuff like that?


Thanks in advance, and please I apologize for any noobish stuff I said, I'm not very familiar with flash and stuff like that. Smile

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Post 17 Dec 2008, 19:12
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HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
Hi Borsuc - I think you've outlined most of the options, except for opitcal disk storage (which is quite effective, but also quite expensive).

I perfer off-site storage (in case of catostrophic event in my area like eathquake, major fire, floods, or nuclear attack .. (I live very near Washington, DC)). I use Carbonite. It's very inexpensive, secure and effective. You can back-up and store an unlimited amount of data. You only need access to the internet, and maintain your account and account information and they take care of the rest. It did take me a while to get over the notion of storing my data on someone else's server, but I've gotten over that.
Post 17 Dec 2008, 19:22
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17270
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Basically everything wears out in one way or another. Your backup strategy should include a planned regular transferral of data to new mediums every few years. This also allows you to update the technology, since you would be kicking yourself now it all your old backups were still in pristine condition but on 10MB drum drives that you can't interface to modern systems.

Specifically for FLASH based storage. Reading has no effect on the long term storage. But never-the-less they do age and data can be corrupted within 10-40 years (depends upon the chip manufacturing process used).
Post 17 Dec 2008, 19:29
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
with optical drives, the problem for me is the drive itself.
music have to be saved in wav format if on CDR and the drive have to be very good, it last very long time in my experience.
flash is very good too.
i use rarelly my 2GB flash, but i'm sure it have all it's update onto safe and ok.
about data integrity or shock resist, if it is still alive with me, it is strong.
sometimes, i forget i am editing a code from the E:/ drive, and makes many compile/ run, my flash isn't dead yet.

it have 1 year old.
the hard drive ( win98 c:/) is poorelly dead again.
if i buy a new HD, i buy a 40GB SSD, even it is 100€
what is good with flash rom is the speed of acces.
for big data transfert, it is a little slow, but to find or read/write a little file, it is very fast, faster than HD
Post 17 Dec 2008, 19:42
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asmcoder



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 784
asmcoder
[content deleted]


Last edited by asmcoder on 14 Aug 2009, 14:54; edited 1 time in total
Post 17 Dec 2008, 21:35
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
Thanks guys I was hoping flash would last without use, glad to see it does Smile

Also, I prefer memory cards with a reader rather than sticks.. in case the contacts gets damaged or something, I can just buy a new reader... also I think they are cheaper. or am I wrong?

128 gigs is expensive I think, unless I go for a SSD but it's not something I plan now.

Flash isn't affected by EM radiation, is it? (I mean, not as hard disks right?)



also thanks HyperVista for Carbonite, I might consider it -- never knew about it before Very Happy

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Post 18 Dec 2008, 15:10
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17270
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Borsuc wrote:
Flash isn't affected by EM radiation, is it? (I mean, not as hard disks right?)
I have taken my FLASH drives with me whenever I travel and the airport X-rays have not yet caused any corruption. Certainly normal EM radiation (i.e. sunlight) does not affect them. AFAIK, HDDs are also not affected by EM. Where did you find that they are?
Post 18 Dec 2008, 15:37
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
Somewhere I saw an article in the newspaper that some guy's HD was wiped out because of some high radiation EM device, I think.

Though maybe the translation isn't good and it was talking more about magnetic interference?

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Post 18 Dec 2008, 15:59
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Modern HDDs will also have FLASH inside them (the HDD OS) so they will also be affected by anything that currently affects any FLASH technology (i.e. aging).
Post 18 Dec 2008, 16:05
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
What if the HD OS or cache/buffer wasn't damaged but only the data was erased? Wink

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Post 18 Dec 2008, 17:22
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madmatt



Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 1045
Location: Michigan, USA
madmatt
I remember seeing in my local Circuit City Tech store these gold layered CD's and DVD's that are supposed to last for a very long time. I don't remember how long. The only down sides are the price ($15 for a single one), and, of course, CD's and DVD's don't stand up well to heat. Sad
Post 19 Dec 2008, 06:12
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
madmatt: sounds like a marketing gimmick to me.
Post 19 Dec 2008, 14:33
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
I don't know, I've seen gold DVDs too but kinda expensive, in total a bit more expensive than the Flash here (except 32 GB which is 2.5 times more expensive than two 16 GB here for some reason Confused)

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Post 19 Dec 2008, 16:36
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