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Index > Heap > Church owes Darwin an apology

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Loser



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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Loser
Check this out! Hehe, I guess some of the believers here owe me an apology too! Wink
Post 16 Sep 2008, 04:14
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
All throughout history the churches often get scared they are losing public favour and try to tell everyone "Hey, we're hip and upmarket, don't run away." Without the followers the churches will die. And being such a great money spinner the churches don't want to lose that income just because they are seen as wrong about something. So they spin a new interpretation on the Bible/Quran/whatever and say "See, it was written in here all along."
Post 16 Sep 2008, 04:28
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
I think christian church should first apologize to roman "pagans", islamic victims of crusades, witches, native americans, slaves (not just african slaves), freethinkers, etc., and THEN to Darwin. All these were tortured/killed with happy consent of church.

Quote:
Brown said that from a modern perspective, it was hard to avoid the thought that the reaction against Darwin was based on what would now be called the "yuck factor ... when he proposed a lineage from apes to humans."

I like fact that at least he found balls to admit being wrong (first step on way to being right), but he could at least study what evolutionary theory really says.

Btw, imagine the yuck factor of atheistic "There is no reason to believe in god", pretty high too, eh?
Post 16 Sep 2008, 09:57
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
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bitRAKE
I thought the church was just a vehicle of the state? Basically, apply the church to liberate the barbarians then rape the local resources. The military is required to protect these "do gooders". The process of colonization continues to be refined today.

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Post 16 Sep 2008, 15:06
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
bitRAKE: Not completely, often church went against state. Especially catholic church tries to be another power aside from state. For example Nazis, even though very strongly religious, wanted church as tool of state, and they clashed with existing churches over this (even though faith-wise they had complete agreement). I see church as separate power from state, that can submit to state or not. Also state can happen to grab power in existing churches to get stronger position, such as establishment of christianity as state religion in Rome in 4th century.
Post 16 Sep 2008, 15:19
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
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bitRAKE
In the USA the church certainly has a special relationship with the state, but seems more of a tool than a partner.

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Post 16 Sep 2008, 15:24
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
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f0dder
In .dk we have Lutheran Christianity as official state religion, and the church gets some government funding. There's also a "church tax", but you can withdraw from the whole "church organization" thing and avoid this tax (and if you've never been baptized, you aren't part of it in the first place).

I used to think that this is a pretty nasty thing, and that church and state should be 100% separated etc. But the last few years, I've realized that it perhaps isn't such a stupid thing after all. The church has very little influence in .dk, and we're on of the most areligious countries in the world - yet we still seem to follow the (positive) ideals of the bible than the .us (which seems to obsess with going to church and believing in god, rather than being kind towards their neighbor).

The government funding also means the church is lazy and complacent, instead of aggressive and constantly out to scrape money together from the sheeple. Works pretty well actually Smile
Post 16 Sep 2008, 16:24
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Quote:
ideals of the bible

you mean ideals of New Testament... ideals of Old Testament are really 800BCish (howtos on proper way to beat slave, etc..)

You mean that church is lazy when it has quaranteed state funding?
Post 16 Sep 2008, 17:04
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
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f0dder
Yeah, ideals of the new testament (which really ought to be self-explanatory and not require a stupid religion, imho) - Old Testament is much cooler than the sappy NT, but I definitely wouldn't want to live in that world Razz

Quote:
You mean that church is lazy when it has quaranteed state funding?
At least that seems to be the effect here in .dk, with how everything is setup.
Post 16 Sep 2008, 17:25
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Even from ideals of New Testament, I particulary don't like no-sex (to point of selfcastrating embraced by Jesus and other early christians), hating own family on basis of different religion, and few others. Here is nice comparison of Jesus vs. some other contemporary philosopher: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/musonius.html
Post 16 Sep 2008, 20:28
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f0dder



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f0dder
vid: I don't agree with all the stuff in the NT (and you should know that Wink), but the basic stuff like not stealing, not killing, treating other people decently...

One of the biggest problems with religious texts is that morons take them literally, and don't realize that they were meant as guidelines and really should be updated to reflect the times you're living in. Not all moral values are constant.
Post 16 Sep 2008, 20:35
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
f0dder wrote:
One of the biggest problems with religious texts is that morons take them literally ...
I disagree here. I think most people just follow what their church leaders tell them to do. The church leaders spin the interpretation in ways that pleases them and then tell the masses what it "really" means. Where the meaning of "really" varies depending upon which church you join and what time period you live in.
Post 16 Sep 2008, 20:43
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
f0dder wrote:
...One of the biggest problems with religious texts is that morons take them literally, and don't realize that they were meant as guidelines and really should be updated to reflect the times you're living in.
I am not sure which I dislike more, agreeing with revolution, or disagreeing with f0dder. My reason is this:
I believe that MOST of the religious leaders represent some of the BRIGHTEST, and wisest people of any particular generation. They were not only well educated, articulate, and natural leaders, (unlike most of us on this forum, for example, we cannot even organize an annual FASM conference!, and we implement polls on the forum to (re)certify our status as autistic non-savants), but they are often wealthy and hence, followed willingly by "simpler" folks, who seek, and need, reassurance, and guidance. Do these bright, well educated, natural leaders of religious organizations BELIEVE the nonsense they teach? Quite possibly. Look at us, here on the FASM forum.....
Smile
Post 17 Sep 2008, 10:52
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
tom tobias wrote:
I am not sure which I dislike more, agreeing with revolution, or disagreeing with f0dder.
Classic, I love it. ROTFLOL. The best post of this year by far. I am not being sarcastic, I really enjoyed reading that sentence.
Post 17 Sep 2008, 11:09
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