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Thomasz Grysztar wrote:
How droll. But even the protestors are working under the assumption that nothing bad can happen until colliding beams are achieved more than a month from now. The CM energy available from a 7 TeV proton hitting another proton at rest is only √(2×7e12 eV×1e9 eV) = 1.18e11 eV compared to the 1.4e13 eV for a head-on collision of two such protons.
The Pb experiment is designed to provide 1.15e15 eV, above even the 4.47e14 eV provided by a 1e20 eV cosmic ray hitting a terrestrial proton.
The point is not that anyone can demonstrate a significant level of risk from the experiment but that a determination of the level of risk can't be made by simple arguments that a non-physicist can verify but requires at the least difficult calculations, so that the average citizen is left once again to rely on the statements of experts who have a vested interest in the continued progress of the experiment to make this assessment for them.
|13 Sep 2008, 17:23||
10 G$ cost, 120 MW power, just for the heck
|14 Sep 2008, 07:44||
Of course... what did YOU expected?
It is business as always.
Science is not the solution (nor is organized religion or anarchy). Science simply creates more problems and hence more power for the rulers of this planet.
As it is we could have had heaven on earth with the science available in 1955. But our inner beliefs are the problem and the solution can only come from within.
Instead we have created more destruction, problems and killings with the help of "intelligent and powerful weapons" and intelligent and famous scientists. We still go to work every day and funny enough going to work (ie slavery) is highly appreciated as being a moral conduct.
Also science is considered to be moral when in fact is just more killing and more weapons and more slavery...
Just relax and be the watcher. If you can understand then stop any kind of scientifically improvements or research you might be doing because it will be just more killing in the end.
We need to first evolve in conscience IF we are ever to survive as a species. Again: Science is not the solution, internal evolution is.
Not the solution before internal evolution but science will be very useful AFTER you evolve never before.
As it is now is like putting a loaded gun with the safety off in the hands of a 2 year old baby and saying that it is not your fault if he kills somebody... you just handed the gun it was his decision to use it like that
But hey I could also say that we should leave all of the very poor people in Africa etc die of hunger or work for the rest of their lives and instead concentrate to build yet another "colider" and more government buildings and democratic institutions and churches and more powerful weapons to manipulate them all
One think that terrorist can not do, that world rulers can not do, that religious rulers can not do ... is: "creativity" and real scientific research...
But unfortunately some of us can do it... and we do it for a house, for a car, for our family for a better life style... taking the world down in the process and silently ignoring the damage we do to others in this process (yes including me).
Good that Einstein, Tesla and other real creators did understood that science is not the solution and stopped research... otherwise it would be much worst today. Good that today "scientists" and kind of dumb... they "work in teams".
Now, Imagine a terrorist with a device capable of creating a black hole on Earth's surface ... and a demand that all of you convert to his "true" religion OR he will push the button in order to clear the world of "infidels" and get himself a "sure" place in "heaven" ... funny is it not?.
In order to prevent this we will need more government, more army, more security, more weapons, more wars and killings and of course more "dedicated work". Nobody understands when we went so wrong spiraling.
I sure hope that the "teams of researchers" and "cutting edge science research" will never find the solution
In the end a joke / story:
At the Galactic council meeting a new race is proposed for first contact: Earth and a race of semi intelligent mammals named "humans".
The president of the galactic council agrees and asks for coordinates of one of their closest planets in order to make personal contact with his own spaceship and help them evolve further on.
Kind of embarrassed somebody points out that this race has only one planet and a small satellite like space station and that there are still wars on the surface and people still work for others...
The president then asks: "And where did they tested nuclear energy and Large Hadron Coliders?"
- "Well, ... on the surface of their own prime planet, into their own solar system" comes the answer...
- "Ah, I see...on their own prime planet..." after a brief pause of careful thinking the president of the galactic council proposes that this race to be erased from all recordings and prevented from further development and contact until they will self destroy...
Everybody agrees... End of story .
Last edited by bogdanontanu on 14 Sep 2008, 09:25; edited 1 time in total
|14 Sep 2008, 09:06||
and how did they tested the medecines? onto animals, not in a safe way, but TORTURE way.
what is sunday?
a day without work!
a day without anything, just police to dominate the normal peoples.
do you thnk we ( normal people) have hte choice?
can we live without work?
can we live wihout closing our mouth?
childhood is maybe the best period of the life, the one without this shit in mind.
there isn't ONE human race, but a lot of subraces.
the governors, the scientists, the junkies, the rebels, the muslims, the fats, the anorexics, the etc etc...
|14 Sep 2008, 09:23||
Yes you do have a "choice" and yes you can.
Yes we can live without work (or with minimal work for 1 or 2 day per year and not for other peoples but for our race evolution). We can by using industrial automation and robots.
But first you must break the identification with your mind thinking process and evolve... only after that you can.
Otherwise we will use robots to gain advantages over less technological countries or humans and to gain personal profit because "we deserve" and they "do not deserve" because they are "lazy", "bad" and 1001 other reasons.
And in your case edfed this bond to "always thinking in my mind" is very powerful.
And childhood is not best. Childhood is when your soul is destroyed and you are injected with desires, thinking in order to become a perfect and usefully slave in the future. It is only your innocence and unconscious innocence that helps you somehow survive this process. In the end of childhood you loose your soul.
Trust me the best time of your life is NOW ... when after you have lost this innocence completely during adulthood... you evolve and gain it back but this time in a CONSCIENT way. Then my friend you are home and they can not control you anymore... only now when you are the knowing of truth only now you are free.
Of course they can still kill or hurt you and they might if you stand in their way. This is true until they will evolve also. But if they kill you then you will remain in conscient being while they "will not" and there is no greater "punishment" than this.
And one day they will evolve and they will have to face you ... with eyes down... and you will forgive them because they did not know what they did.
But the general answer is "they" also have to evolve in order to make this wold a heaven and this is indeed uncertain. As it is now, probably this race is not going to make it.
But until then YOU can still evolve and gain joy. Hence do not let your mind slow you down with fear of what other might do to you nor with impulses towards irrational acts that you can do to them.
Carefully walk here because it is an inner journey not and external one until you have found light
Last edited by bogdanontanu on 14 Sep 2008, 10:42; edited 2 times in total
|14 Sep 2008, 09:45||
sure we are very controlled duribg childhood.
but one certitude, this time wasn't the one i know now.
it was "no fear of what can happen to me".
no shame for anything.
be as natural as possible is to be a child.
after, education destroys your own natural identity.
and as you stated, it's when you recovers your childmind, but with adult consciousness, that you become free.
but free in mind only.
what actions can we do?
say no to what?
no to LHC, Hbomb and CRAY science madness?
no to animals testings?
no to power.
no to money????
theses items are the ones i never found cool.
|14 Sep 2008, 09:55||
No you can never be free "in your mind". You are only free now and beyond mind in existence. If you are not here then yes you can not be free and you are still afraid.
Trust me you are not. You are still inside your mind thinking process.
First of all it will be so much joy (not because of drugs external or internal generated by brain) that you will be kind of ashamed. You will feel compassion for other humans and you will know intuitively what to do or what not to do.
Once you are there, get a strong foot hold in. Because you will fall out occasionally at the start. Because of frustration, because of sadness. Your mind will try to get you back.
Once you are there you can try and observe if others want to evolve... and if somebody wants you can try to guide him or she by pointers. They must "want" or otherwise it is not possible... you can not force or manipulate them... hence free "will" or choice.
But since you are here now... you do not care. You feel compassion but that is all.
Do not try to guide if you are not here and now firmly. A blind man can not guide another blind man.
If everybody has evolved then WHO will still want to do the bad things? How will accept to do scientific research for weapons and manipulation? Who will own company to make profits and enslave others? Who will promote organized religions in order to manipulate and make people "sleep" in hope or after death redemption? who will accept to have more the his brother? who will accept to work for others and who will ask others to work for him? Who will consider killing or theft or control of others? Who will need army or police? Who will ever need rulers, politics and hierarchy?
You do not have to do heroic acts (but you might do so if you like) Once in light it does not matter anyway.
If you are surrounded by non evolved humans (and this is clearly the case now) then just observe and watch. There will be moments when you can do something... small things that can tip the icebergs, small things that can show to others that there is so much peace and joy that there is no need for desire, for strife, for killing.
But first be evolved yourself. Stop thinking when not necessary. Existence will show you what to do IF there is anything to be done. Usually your simple presence is enough to help humans. You can remain silent.
|14 Sep 2008, 10:11||
I know that your quote is not meant literally but I just want to mention something I have seen. Each time I travel to Malaysia I often go to a place called Brickfields (in Kuala Lumpur). This is the location of the blind foundation. When eating my dinner with my customers we will always see a row of blind people walking about the streets all with their hand on the shoulder of the person in front. And the person in front is also a blind person. This is a genuine case of the blind leading the blind.
A blind man can not guide another blind man.
|14 Sep 2008, 11:03||
Would it not be so much better if one of them (or all) could really "see" where they are going?
In a way this is what our society is doing: a long row of bling man guiding others. Of course it does have it's merits or otherwise we would not have survived for so long as a race.
But if an accidental silent car would come frontal toward this row of blind man none of them would "see it coming". Maybe the shock wave of first impact could offer a small info or advantage to the people in the row and maybe some of the last ones could make a step sideways that could save their life.
Or maybe on the side there is a big hole or street lane and they will jump in more danger. Lots of "maybe" are specific to the mind device.
Now I "think" I would choose "seeing" if possible
|14 Sep 2008, 11:25||
Good that Einstein, Tesla and other real creators did understood that science is not the solution and stopped research... otherwise it would be much worst today.
I really think that you overrate their capabilities here.
|14 Sep 2008, 12:27||
I actually agree with Bogdan and DOS386.
Tomasz Grysztar wrote:
Well IMO humans are very ignorant of their "full potential" (don't take it too literally ), and this has happened over the generations. For example, a proton is there, it exists everywhere. It is made out of "stuff" (whatever that is), and that "stuff" is there. Yet we need to waste 40 years, $5 billion and a lot of energy to find out the "stuff" that has always been there? Philosophically, the information, the stuff, was there. We just couldn't see it. It's not anything magical.
I know this is how "science" (or rather business) works but I prefer reason over experiments, most times.
(this is just my opinion, don't flame it).
|14 Sep 2008, 14:11||
TGB: don't forget that while hunting for this knowledge which you might find irrelevant, a myriad of technologies are born. What we know today as the WWW started at CERN... the internet started as DARPA.
While I'm not all pleased with the way the world is today, I do appreciate a lot of the things technology has brought us.
|14 Sep 2008, 14:24||
that wasn't most of my point
I meant that we are always using "the hard way" of observing things, without a bit of reason, we always go for 'experiment, experiment, experiment'. I know you say that without experiments and hard data we wouldn't have computers, but I think differently if great minds were at work on it. That is, a proton is everywhere. All the "mini-particles" are present everywhere. We just don't know how to look at it and take the hard way (money wasted, 30 years, etc) because we are satisfied only with those results.
|14 Sep 2008, 15:28||
The_Grey_Beast: By not experimenting and trying only to think about things we end up conjuring up things like gods, monsters, dragons, demons, poltigeists etc., all unproven. That is why we must experiment, to confirm our theories and ideas.
|14 Sep 2008, 15:33||
...Good that Einstein, Tesla and other real creators did understood that science is not the solution and stopped research...
While I find myself generally in agreement with most of what you write, Bogdan, this time, I must take exception, regarding one of my heroes, Nikola Tesla, who continued his research until dementia overtook him. I do not believe that he would have agreed with your summary of his fundamental position vis a vis the importance of scientific research.
In 1934, [i.e. age 78] Tesla wrote to consul Janković of his homeland. The letter contained a message of gratitude to Mihajlo Pupin who had initiated a donation scheme by which American companies could support Tesla. Tesla refused the assistance, choosing instead to live on a modest pension received from Yugoslavia, and to continue his research.
|14 Sep 2008, 17:59||
what is science?
is it the fact that human understand real world mecanisms?
is it to control the world that human love science?
yes, hb love science because it give himù the "total" control of reality.
controlling at a point it become impossibel to dream about magic worlds.
even magic become science and maths for scientists.
then, yes, it is not councilled to know everything.
and then, it is time to stop researches.
for the moment, the dream is fully available for me.
there is no total control on nature for me.
but for people how "knows" everything, like general directors of world company it's time to stop everything, and return to nature.
YOU ARE NOT YOUR JOB, NOR YOUR BANK ACCOUNT NOR YOUR DEBTS.
about debts, who is the man that remembers all of them, putting a label onto peoples.
it's so confused... let it be, and fuck it all.
|14 Sep 2008, 18:28||
I agree with The_Grey_Beast because nature has already performed more experiments than we can dream of - we often fail to observe her close enough. In hind-sight this is almost always the case. Through time and effort we discover some relationship which was always present and within our field of view. It is funny how we must walk around something to see it.
YOU ARE NOT YOUR JOB, NOR YOUR BANK ACCOUNT NOR YOUR DEBTS.
(I'm willing to PM by personal account info to peoples that want to liberate themselves from this sense of false identity. Act now! Save yourself!)
|15 Sep 2008, 06:39||
Check this out. The end of the world would come two months late!
|21 Sep 2008, 05:45||
So this means that in January it will be used again? Because I read somewhere before September 10th that the real thing will start in November.
By "real thing" I mean starting to smash particles, not creating black holes. I should have clarified that [/edit]
Last edited by LocoDelAssembly on 21 Sep 2008, 16:07; edited 1 time in total
|21 Sep 2008, 13:58||
LOL guys now let's get serious. The Black Hole doesn't grow so fast, and if I recall, the collision didn't even take place!
I'm thinking along 2-3 years more realistically for it to grow enough size at the center of the Earth
|21 Sep 2008, 15:36||
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