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Index > Heap > Robot with a Biological Brain

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Loser



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 111
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Loser
I'm stunned by this good (or bad) news! Shocked Maybe some of us should volunteer our brains for transplantation to this robot! Laughing
Post 15 Aug 2008, 08:50
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17338
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revolution
That is hardly a transplanted brain that they are using. An entire transplanted brain (from any known life-form) would be orders of magnitude more complex than the few cultured cells they used.
Post 15 Aug 2008, 10:26
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sinsi



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
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sinsi
Yeah, but neurons? All our brain is is basically a bunch of neurons...
Post 15 Aug 2008, 10:29
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
sinsi wrote:
Yeah, but neurons? All our brain is is basically a bunch of neurons...
That's like saying computers are just a bunch of transistors. It's all in the connections.
Post 15 Aug 2008, 10:36
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sinsi



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
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sinsi
Yep, let them slop around in an agar dish and who knows? Forget quantum computers, let's use wetware heh heh
Post 15 Aug 2008, 10:53
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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ManOfSteel
If you don't have at least millions of synaptic connections, you basically don't have a brain. A human brain has around 100 billion neurons and 60 trillion synapses.
Post 15 Aug 2008, 11:20
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
Some people believe this "myth" that they are so sure intelligence and all that come just from the amount of neurons, which is a bit silly.

Glial cells are one theorized example that take another function of "remembering".

Also, some people say that the neutrons communicate with sound rather than electric signals...
Post 15 Aug 2008, 11:51
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4240
Location: 2018
edfed
neutrons or neurons?

if someone sugest that neurons communicate with sound,it is normal.
when we think, it is with "sounds" like our own voice, or things like that.

but why the brain hear this?

because it is not sound but dictionary.

the brain will assign a sound to each letters or phonems.

phonems will create words.
words create sentenses.
sentenses have a meaning.

this meaning is what we try to think.
and think it using sound circuitry.

sometimes, we think with pictures or sentations.

it is normal as it is the 5 senses.
Post 15 Aug 2008, 13:55
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
edfed wrote:
neutrons or neurons?
neurons of course Laughing
Post 15 Aug 2008, 15:39
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
TGB wrote:
...Also, some people say that the neutrons [sic] communicate with sound rather than electric signals...
NONSENSE. Of course neurons communicate exclusively by electrical signals, transmitted either by chemical or electrical synaptic connections, not by pulsatile acoustic (mechanical) energy.
Glia play a role, as yet improperly defined, in maintaining homeostasis of the nervous system, and demonstrate membrane potential shifts, altered SLOWLY, associated with metabolic activity of nearby neurons.
Sound is transduced in the cochlea, converted to electrical signals which enter the central nervous system. At no point in the life of vertebrates, or any invertebrates with which I am acquainted, do neurons respond, receive, or transmit functionally significant data to/from one another by means of mechanical energy displacement. Neurons DO engage in metabolic changes (chemical gradients, reflecting ionic movement), required to maintain the electrical signalling. Further, neurons shift cytoplasmic contents by means of mechanical transposition, from one part of the cell to another (for example, axonal transport), a VERY slow process, which requires DAYS, or, at best, HOURS, not milliseconds.
This statement by TGB is an illustration of nonsensical posting. His statement is not simply wrong, it is not simply careless, it is not simply ignorant. It is malevolent. It is also accompanied, understandably, by no reference.
TGB wrote:
Some people believe this "myth" that they are so sure intelligence and all that come just from the amount of neurons, which is a bit silly.
It may well be, as TGB has suggested, that neither the quantity of neurons nor the quantity of synaptic connections is directly linked to "intelligence". Maybe "intelligence", whatever that may be, is a function not of the quantity of neurons or synapses, but rather, of the LOCATION of the synapses, i.e. which addresses are accessed! To date, no one really knows much about how the central nervous system works. One thing we do believe, which may or may not prove eventually to be correct: On autopsy, the brains of OLDER folks often reveal significant neuronal depletion, and, since OLDER folks (before autopsy!) also tend to become a bit fuddy duddy (i.e. dimwitted), ergo, it follows that neuronal quantity IS related in some fashion to "intelligence". As my own demise approaches ever more rapidly now, I have recently enjoyed paraphrasing Frank Sinatra's famous comment about Dean Martin's drinking: "I spill more than he drinks", by claiming to have already lost more neurons than most folks are born with.
Rolling Eyes
Post 16 Aug 2008, 04:03
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sinsi



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
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sinsi
Post 16 Aug 2008, 04:52
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Loser



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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Loser
Thanks for the video, sinsi!

Wow! 300000 neurons, communicating with the robot wirelessly, control its movement in a predictable manner! Shocked
Post 16 Aug 2008, 05:01
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
tom tobias wrote:
NONSENSE. Of course neurons communicate exclusively by electrical signals, transmitted either by chemical or electrical synaptic connections, not by pulsatile acoustic (mechanical) energy.
First of all, this clearly shows your zeal towards it. I have not supplied any references because:

1) you can find it yourself with Google, but if you want to put your head in the sand and say "No, it's not true" then go ahead
2) I didn't think it was necessary and I didn't have time either for a detailed reply. What's the point anyway?

Anyway since you love references that use "Scientists" or "Research shows that" or any such WORDS (bytes on the net), here's some food for thought for you.

What I find quite disturbing is your IMMEDIATELY response and rejection "nonsense" without even at least asking why or simply even GOOGLING first. Rolling Eyes

tom tobias wrote:
It may well be, as TGB has suggested, that neither the quantity of neurons nor the quantity of synaptic connections is directly linked to "intelligence". Maybe "intelligence", whatever that may be, is a function not of the quantity of neurons or synapses, but rather, of the LOCATION of the synapses, i.e. which addresses are accessed! To date, no one really knows much about how the central nervous system works. One thing we do believe, which may or may not prove eventually to be correct: On autopsy, the brains of OLDER folks often reveal significant neuronal depletion, and, since OLDER folks (before autopsy!) also tend to become a bit fuddy duddy (i.e. dimwitted), ergo, it follows that neuronal quantity IS related in some fashion to "intelligence".
Not necessarily. Just because getting older makes us dumber and also makes us have less neurons doesn't mean that there has to be a connection. Also:this says something about the brute-force "volume" of neurons, that are not applicable in a "intelligence" discussion:
Quote:
In other words, it is probable that the volume of nerve cells may be relatively irrelevant in a discussion of intelligence.
Post 16 Aug 2008, 11:15
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
Grey Beast: Certain number of neurons sets upper limit for computational capability of neural network. You can't learn reading with one neuron. That's how volume has effect in intelligence. Of course, just sheer volume wouldn't prouduce something we'd call "intelligence", there has to be some system in connection
Post 16 Aug 2008, 12:17
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
Of course, you need SOME neurons for that purpose. However, I don't think the numbers are linearly dependent on that "intelligence" or whatever. In fact, I don't even know if they are ABOUT that.

Sure, the neurons are needed for the brain to work. However, that's like saying a power source for a computer has some relationship to the CPU's ability to be fast. The CPU can't function without a power source, but the power source itself doesn't have anything to do with performance.

hope you get the analogy
Post 16 Aug 2008, 12:20
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
TGB wrote:
...hope you get the analogy
Good try!!!

Umm, no, not quite right. The energy supply for the brain is derived from glucose ONLY, (not lipids, as the heart, for example, can metabolize.) If the serum glucose level falls too low, the brain stops working. So, in my opinion, a slightly better analogy would be the quantity of transistors in a cpu having little to do with the execution of a multitasking algorithm. Perhaps, quantity of execution units ("cores") per cpu will prove an even better analogy. In my opinion, however, the best analogy is with the software that runs the cpu. A huge program, with multiple thousands of lines of code may be far less efficient, hence "less intelligent", than a much smaller, more cpu intuitive program, ("more intelligent", despite being smaller in scope--corresponding to "fewer neurons", that nevertheless result in greater intelligence.)
Post 16 Aug 2008, 13:42
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
tom tobias wrote:
A huge program, with multiple thousands of lines of code may be far less efficient, hence "less intelligent", than a much smaller, more cpu intuitive program, ("more intelligent", despite being smaller in scope--corresponding to "fewer neurons", that nevertheless result in greater intelligence.)
Ok then, the algorithm matters.

Thus, a program written in Java is less intelligent than one in assembly with an even better algorithm, even though it has (let's say) a better CPU.

ok that's a better analogy Very Happy
Post 16 Aug 2008, 13:51
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