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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
http://www.u3.com/
what's that thing ? a flash usb that has 2 partitions, one formated with cdfs and the other one with fat32.. ? seems evil.. however is that possible to do with every flash usb or it is a hardware issue ? or they just want everyone to buy their usb sticks.. ?
Post 16 Aug 2008, 18:51
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vador



Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Madagascar
vador
somehow my flash disk has 2 partitions
one is a normal fat32 partition and the other ones boasts a Damn Small Linux partition so I can boot my PC with it. So in my sense every flash usb can have partitions
Post 16 Aug 2008, 19:01
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
yep of course you can format it with more partitions, the thing is that this thing, when you plug it to the usb port, windows see it as removable storage and as cd drive (i don't have one but as far as i know from searching..) it also has autorun supported, like the cd for example, without confirmation dialogs..
Post 16 Aug 2008, 19:09
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Kenneth



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 38
Location: United States of America
Kenneth
I have a u3 flash drive and I used it a lot when I had an internship with a programmer. There's a database of programs you can install on it and it has its own form of a start menu. Nice and convenient when you're not using your own computer.
Post 16 Aug 2008, 19:17
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vador



Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 68
Location: Madagascar
vador
I guess one could code a virtual CDROM drive (like the one used in PowerISO of WinImage), mount a CDROM image (contained in the flash drive), and put it in the autorun.inf file.

:: could just use http://www.acc.umu.se/~bosse/filedisk-14.zip

_________________
do not click here
Post 16 Aug 2008, 19:31
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Alphonso



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Alphonso
A lot of USB flash drives support CDROM but don't advertise the fact, it's all down to the controller on the stick.
Post 17 Aug 2008, 05:12
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: web
Dex4u
U3 are hardware based you can not turn a normal usb into a U3, because when you plug a U3 in, the PC thinks it's a external usb cd drive.
You can use a autorun.inf, but you will still need to click for it to run a pay load.
This link will help you:
http://www.usbhacks.com/2006/10/25/how-to-quick-intro-to-hacking-autorun-for-usb-flash-drives/
Post 17 Aug 2008, 12:53
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Alphonso



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Alphonso
Dex4u wrote:
U3 are hardware based you can not turn a normal usb into a U3
U3 is more than just a CDROM on a stick. AFAIK it implements a standard for running standalone programs from the USB device. This means they should not install themselves and not leave entries in the registry.

What do you call a normal usb?

Just because a stick isn't labeled as U3 and comes as straight removable media does not necessarily mean it cant be flashed as a usb read only CDROM drive (without U3 compatibility) or even perhaps to use two LUN's and offer both a CDROM device and a hard drive device.
Post 17 Aug 2008, 14:52
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
Alphonso wrote:
Just because a stick isn't labeled as U3 and comes as straight removable media does not necessarily mean it cant be flashed as a usb read only CDROM drive (without U3 compatibility)

how to format it with 'cdfs' then ?
Post 17 Aug 2008, 17:31
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: web
Dex4u
@Alphonso, Are you that thick ?.
Q. is that possible to do with every flash usb or it is a hardware issue ?
A. U3 are hardware based you can not turn a normal usb into a U3, because when you plug a U3 in, the PC thinks it's a external usb cd drive.

Normal = "none U3 drive".

U3 wiki
Quote:

Hardware

U3 flash drives are USB flash drives with a specific hardware and software setup:

* The hardware configuration causes Windows disk management to show two drives:
1. A read-only ISO 9660 volume on an emulated CD-ROM drive with an autorun configuration to execute the U3 LaunchPad, and
2. A standard flash drive (FAT formatted) that includes a hidden "SYSTEM" folder with installed applications.
* U3 compliant applications can be (optionally) preloaded by manufacturers.


As such, you can not turn a normal usb ( none U3) into a U3, because of hardware differences, not software.

@asmhack, it user's a ISO image, but even with a ISO image, it will not autoload without clicking on it, if it's not a U3.
If you have a U3 and want to load your own payload, you can load your own ISO using this tool
http://www.hak5.org/packages/files/Universal_Customizer.zip
This has all the things to make a .iso for U3, just puting the files in the U3CUSTOM dir and clicking on the ISOCreate.cmd
Post 17 Aug 2008, 17:33
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
ok i think this topic is answered..
@dex4u: payload ? Razz
Post 17 Aug 2008, 18:00
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Alphonso



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Alphonso
Dex4u wrote:
@Alphonso, Are you that thick ?.
Well, I'd have to admit that I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. Laughing

I did say in my first post it was down to the controller. The controller chip IS the hardware for the usb flash drive.

I have a Kingston Datatraveler DT1 here which comes as a cheap straight 1GB mass storage removable media device. No mention of U3. Does this qualify as a normal usb?

The controller chip is a Phison 2232, with this controller chip it is possible to configure the firmware on the device to make it behave as a CDROM device as stated earlier. Plug it into a windows machine and it will be seen as a CDROM just as with a U3 drive, although I personally can't really see any advantages in doing so.
Post 17 Aug 2008, 19:42
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: web
Dex4u
asmhack wrote:
ok i think this topic is answered..
@dex4u: payload ? Razz

Yes a cool payload Wink , in my case i got my usb fob stolen, so now i have a payload that sends me info from who stole it eg: ip, user name, i can also send a command to there PC, if they do not return it, so that there PC stops working ritght.
Note: i can bypass it with key combos .

@Alphonso, there are usb fobs, that let you change a bit, so you can do this, but it needs hardware support, i have a program somewhere on my PC to do this.
But this is what i mean by hardware support, once you can do that you can make them into a U3 ( as that is the hardware difference eg: flash able ) .
Now the important thing about emulating CD is they will autorun, that why when you put a CD in the drive and the .inf is on it, it will autorun a program on the CD.
Normal (as removable drives) can not do this.
Post 17 Aug 2008, 23:32
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Alphonso



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Alphonso
Hey cool idea with with the tracking, although I'm not so sure about shutting their PC down. Most times USB sticks get misplaced rather than stolen. What if the person who finds your stick puts it in a computer say networked in a hospital, air traffic control or large corporation etc and your shutting down that computer brings the whole network down. Shocked
Dex4u wrote:
Note: i can bypass it with key combos
Doesn't the 'left shift' during media insertion not disable autorun anymore? (only have w2k here)
Personally I prefer not to have autorun and this seems to work for me.
Code:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\policies\Explorer]
"NoDriveTypeAutoRun"=dword:000000ff    
Dex4u I'm not sure if I'm mis-understanding you but you seem to be implying a flash device configured as a combo cdrom and removable media is a U3 drive.

My understanding is that a U3 drive is one that contains a working U3 software platform. If I make a stick with cdrom and removable media (windows recognizes it as such and can autorun just by insertion) imo it does not make it a U3 drive although it may be compatible to run U3 software.

As far as flash drives go they basically have a controller chip and memory chip(s). It is possible to have two or more different OEMs use the same hardware device and package it under their personal logo and configuration.

The controller can be flashed to change some or all of the following depending on the controller chip.
    R/RW
    FDD/HDD/CDROM
    removable media/fixed media (windows sees multiple partitions)
    Vendor ID
    Product ID
    Vendor name
    Product name
    Serial Number
    The way the LED flashes
So without changing the hardware we can have a stick configured as removeable media or CDROM or 3.5" Flopply drive or CDROM and removable media or Floppy with removable media etc...

asmhack if you want more info try searching using keyword "Mass Production Tool" + USB or something along those lines. If you have a 'normal' USB stick it may have a controller that is flashable to a CDROM device. Some sticks are snap together and it may be easy to open it and physically check which controller it is, some are glued so you may want to try something like freeware 'ChipGenius' rather than busting it apart. Hope that helps.
Post 18 Aug 2008, 08:09
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Alphonso



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 294
Alphonso
Just in case anyone is interested here is a quick update.

Using the following USB flash devices sold as normal removeable media devices, all were abled to be flashed as two LUN devices consisting of one CDROM device (CDFS) and one removeable drive.

Apacer AH222 2GB
Kingston Datatraveler DT1 1GB
Kingston Datatraveler II 1GB (year 2005)
Kingmax U Drive 4GB (U not U3)

This was not possible with an old Kingmax 64M USB.

It should also be noted even though these drives can be loaded with your own ISO and be automatically seen and mounted as USB CDROM devices by windows, they are not recognized by the U3 installer as U3 devices. U3 would appear to be only compatible with it's own specific controllers, which makes sense.

Hope this clears up the confusion.
Post 25 Aug 2008, 01:20
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
thx alphonso Wink
Post 25 Aug 2008, 02:07
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: web
Dex4u
Yes thanks for that info Alphonso, but remember as this is a programmming forum, it would not be hard to code a program to run on such a device, that emulate all U3 functions Wink .
Post 25 Aug 2008, 16:06
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
interresting for fallout2.
Post 25 Aug 2008, 17:37
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