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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
Quote:
Zeitgeist, the Movie is a 2007 documentary film, produced by Peter Joseph about the Jesus myth hypothesis, the attacks of 9/11, and the Federal Reserve Bank as well as a number of conspiracy theories related to those three main topics. It was released free online via Google Video in June of 2007. A remastered version was presented as a global premiere on November 10, 2007 at the 4th Annual Artivist Film Festival & Artivist Awards. The film has attracted significant public interest.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm
Post 25 Jul 2008, 01:12
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DOS386



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1901
DOS386
Post 25 Jul 2008, 03:28
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avi



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 23
Location: usa
avi
DOS386 wrote:
UTFFS ...
hmm?
UTFS: Use the Fine Search

I wonder if DOS386 drank too much coffee, perhaps the extra F may have represented an insertion error, for I have no clue what else this extra "F" could signify: Hmm. Let's see: Forgotten, umm, no, DOS386 has a memory like a hawk, as his post above reveals, Fateful, no, no, sure not, Forbidding, nah, the FASM search engine is imperfect, perhaps even Flawed, but not Foolish. Aha: FANTASTIC. Yes. that seems more likely than Foolish, for it is we who are foolish, not the search engine. OH, oops, now I see the light, the extra F signifies Fasm. How foolish of me.
Shocked
Post 25 Jul 2008, 07:50
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
oh ok, mods ffeel free to delete


Last edited by asmhack on 25 Jul 2008, 09:54; edited 1 time in total
Post 25 Jul 2008, 07:53
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shoorick



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1607
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shoorick
avi
Very Happy
Post 25 Jul 2008, 08:11
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Loser



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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Loser
EDIT: message deleted


Last edited by Loser on 30 Jul 2008, 06:36; edited 1 time in total
Post 25 Jul 2008, 09:51
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
Zeitgeist is a shock crap for people who have no clue about real things. After I saw first part, about Jesus being ripoff from other gods, topic which i happen to know fairly well, it was as much as I needed.

Authors overgeneralize everything to find any sort of similarity (for example selfcastrating under tree is equal to crucifixion in their eyes, or feasts for some god becomes "symbolical eating his flesh"...), and in some cases they directly lie (they cite book "Bonswick, James: Egyption Belief and Modern Thought" to support claim Horus was crucified, but this book doesn't contain anything even remotely supporting that). That is case for MOST of their claims.

Ironically, they miss cases where Christianity actually ripped of something from "pagan" religions. For example Sol Invictus and 25. december, even though this is irrelevant to historicity of Jesus, because 25. december was associated to him only in 4th century, before that people "calculated" many other dates, most common being 6th January. Some even claimed it is shameful to celebrate Jesus birthday, "as if he was some king or pharaoh".

Also, check their list of sources:
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/transcript.htm
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/sources.htm

Did you notice something uncommon? Yeah, they never list year of publication of book, even though it is a very common practice. Wonder why? Try to go over few their sources - mostly those are obscure works from late 19 century or early 20 century.

Seriously, this movie is Dänniken-like crapload for people who have no idea about topic.

Quote:
Judging from the sarcastic tone, I'm having the impression that avi and tom tobias are, indeed, the same guy! Am I right?

No... not enough verbosity Very Happy
Post 25 Jul 2008, 12:01
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
@vid:
ok, lets say that first part, is crap, thats your opinion about the other two parts ?
Post 25 Jul 2008, 12:23
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
deleted


Last edited by tom tobias on 30 Jul 2008, 19:37; edited 1 time in total
Post 25 Jul 2008, 12:28
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
vid wrote:
Did you notice something uncommon? Yeah, they never list year of publication of book, even though it is a very common practice. Wonder why? Try to go over few their sources - mostly those are obscure works from late 19 century or early 20 century.
Hmm you may be right but are you so sure your sources are better? I don't want to be picky, I'm just saying sources are never 100% trustworthy Wink

vid wrote:
Quote:
Judging from the sarcastic tone, I'm having the impression that avi and tom tobias are, indeed, the same guy! Am I right?

No... not enough verbosity Very Happy
I actually do think it's either tom tobias himself or some friend of his or something like that Exclamation
Post 25 Jul 2008, 15:21
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
Quote:
ok, lets say that first part, is crap, thats your opinion about the other two parts ?

Didn't watch them. You know, there are interesting books about business machination from people who actually can present some evidence without misrepresenting data and misquoting others. Any info on any topic by people who made Zeitgeist, is just as good as listening to some homeless weirdo downtown.

Quote:
Hmm you may be right but are you so sure your sources are better? I don't want to be picky, I'm just saying sources are never 100% trustworthy

Newer researchers and historians have much more primary sources to use, than historians 100 years ago, sources are more accessible, more research was done to build upon, and also standard is higher than back then. So yes, if you don't feel like diving into primary evidence yourself (like Zeitgeist), then newer historians are WAY better than older historians.
Post 25 Jul 2008, 18:29
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Loser



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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Loser
EDIT: message deleted


Last edited by Loser on 30 Jul 2008, 06:37; edited 1 time in total
Post 26 Jul 2008, 10:01
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
vid wrote:
Newer researchers and historians have much more primary sources to use, than historians 100 years ago, sources are more accessible, more research was done to build upon, and also standard is higher than back then. So yes, if you don't feel like diving into primary evidence yourself (like Zeitgeist), then newer historians are WAY better than older historians.
You did not get what I meant Wink I did not question nor was picking on anything in particular. I was merely saying that, people can abuse what they have. Knowing that "today" people put more faith in sources (because they believe, like you said, are much more accessible and more research is done), they can use that assumption. Maybe it is that assumption which makes them more credible in the first place, hmm? Smile
Post 26 Jul 2008, 12:29
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Oh no, not this again...

Written sources and archaeology are ONLY thing that can tell us something about past (oh well, and genetics a bit). You can dismiss those, but then you know absolutely nothing about past, and that is not exactly best result for a historian, is it?

As for abusing them: All people have some sources. If someone abuses them, someone else with different opinion will point out, which sources he misrepresented, and which sources he omitted. Of course, this happens all the time, and historians point each other's error. Zeitgeist is nice case of extreme abuse of sources.
Post 26 Jul 2008, 16:01
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
I meant something else. Yes "archaeological" findings may be the best source -- but a book does not "move" you to that location when it was discovered. By reading a book/article/newspaper, you don't teleport there when it was discovered and discover the "findings" yourself. Some findings can even be covered-up (such as the aliens in the other thread).

That was my point. Books/articles/links != archaeological findings (that is, the actual objects).
Post 26 Jul 2008, 17:08
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Anyway, Zeitgeist has zero evidence in archaeology, and it's book evidence is only in the worst of worst books. So much for it...
Post 27 Jul 2008, 01:27
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Loser



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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Loser
I guess my messages above might have embarrassed avi / tom tobias. So I had them deleted. Sorry. Embarassed
Post 30 Jul 2008, 06:42
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
vid wrote:
Seriously, this movie is Dänniken-like crapload for people who have no idea about topic.
Mr. Erich can be great fun if you don't take him for more than he is - I'm going to watch Zeitgiest eventually, with the same mindset Smile
Post 30 Jul 2008, 10:24
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