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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
yeah, is me again. Embarassed Embarassed

what if one make really loud sound in a vacuum box.
eg, u put a fire cracker in a sealed ballon like thingy with air for it to burn and explode, then u put this ballon in a far more bigger vacuum box)
what would happend?
would it be like a planet explode? and a black hole?

would sound accumate in that vacuum box?
where the sound go? or where the after exploded "stuff" should go? since they are surrounded by vacuum.
Post 03 May 2008, 17:35
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
There is nothing like "sound" in vacuum or space. Sound is pulses of pressure of particles. No particles, no pressure, no sound.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound#Physics_of_sound
Post 03 May 2008, 17:51
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
sleepsleep: By the way, i wonder, do you actually follow those topics you start? Because usually you only make first post and don't rejoin the debate.
Post 03 May 2008, 17:53
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Hehe, vid is getting concerned. Don't worry 'bout it, you and The_Grey_Beast can "discuss" argue about this for another few posts. I think you both enjoy it. Yeah?
Post 03 May 2008, 18:01
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Hey, come one, last time our discussion (argument) was even joined by artlav Exclamation

I meant whether he reads the part until it gets offtopic Wink
Post 03 May 2008, 18:13
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DOS386



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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DOS386
sleepsleep wrote:
what if one make really loud sound in a vacuum box.
eg, u put a fire cracker in a sealed ballon like thingy with air for it to burn and explode, then u put this ballon in a far more bigger vacuum box)


Wrong way. Sad The inner balloon will explode, destroy your vacuum, everybody will hear the noise, someone will point CIA about your terrorist activity, and you'll land in Guantanamo Evil or Very Mad

The correct way: take a big and solid box, and place this into a bigger solid box, and create a vacuum between them.

> would sound accumate in that vacuum box?

NO. Sound is just moving gas ... it will vanish (energy preservation: if favor of heat) withing < 1 second, and all what remains will be a very high static pressure. So you will have to let the gas go out before placing the next bomb in. Idea

Good luck for your war on "war on terror" Laughing Image

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Post 03 May 2008, 18:24
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tom tobias



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tom tobias
Post 03 May 2008, 20:27
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:

sleepsleep: By the way, i wonder, do you actually follow those topics you start? Because usually you only make first post and don't rejoin the debate.

i follow, read it and absorbs ur guys idea.
but most of the times, only the first few post (seems like reply to my questions) after that, it went further from the initial post.
Post 04 May 2008, 12:08
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
revolution wrote:
Hehe, vid is getting concerned. Don't worry 'bout it, you and The_Grey_Beast can "discuss" argue about this for another few posts. I think you both enjoy it. Yeah?
lol Laughing

to be honest I've always felt it was a discussion (albeit sometimes difficult to understand because of our non-native english) and very rare reaching an 'argue' style, but I guess I'll be a lurker then Wink
Post 04 May 2008, 13:17
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ManOfSteel



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ManOfSteel
Quote:
would it be like a planet explode? and a black hole?

What do you mean by that? Planets don't explode just like that, unless you're in the Star Wars universe. A supernova is only possible with stellar objects of multiple solar masses. Below that, you only get a white dwarf just like what will happen with our Sun in 5 billion years.
And black holes don't explode. Where did you get such an idea?
Post 04 May 2008, 13:40
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
ManOfSteel wrote:
And black holes don't explode.
They might if the Hawking Radiation thing is correct, but only at the very end just before they disappear.

But remember most of what the average Joe knows about space and black holes etc. is from Star Wars and the like. So yeah, everything will explode, all you need to do is point a laser beam at it and BOOM. So everyone be careful with your laser pointers, don't point it at the ground unless you want to blow up the Earth!
Post 04 May 2008, 15:04
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:

would it be like a planet explode? and a black hole?

what i mean is,
since if a planet get exploded, a black hole could be possibly formed.
i didn't say a black hole explode

Quote:

And black holes don't explode. Where did you get such an idea?

where did you get such an idea too.... Razz

if we could stimulate the explosion, but in a very tiny scale, it could be possible a tiny blackhole will be formed.

Quote:

The correct way: take a big and solid box, and place this into a bigger solid box, and create a vacuum between them.

yeah, something like that.
Post 04 May 2008, 23:10
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Alphonso



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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Alphonso
Sleepsleep: you might find this interesting and maybe this too.
Post 05 May 2008, 05:43
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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ManOfSteel
revolution wrote:
They might if the Hawking Radiation thing is correct, but only at the very end just before they disappear.

The evaporation of massive objects (from 3 solar masses black holes to supermassive ones) would take more time than our universe has lived so far. So I guess we probably won't be witnessing any in our lifetime.
Only primordial black holes are small enough to evaporate quickly (a few billion years only) and provoke actual explosions, that is if the Hawking Radiation thing is correct.

sleepsleep wrote:
since if a planet get exploded, a black hole could be possibly formed.

Normal black holes are formed by the gravitational collapse of the stellar object when thermonuclear forces are no more powerful enough to resist its own gravity.
A big stellar object of more than 3 solar masses explodes in a supernova and a black hole may be formed, but it doesn't mean anything that blows up will form a black hole. And surely not the planet of your original post, which would not blow up in the first place.
Post 05 May 2008, 12:26
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
Quote:
There is nothing like "sound" in vacuum or space. Sound is pulses of pressure of particles. No particles, no pressure, no sound.

totally true.


and what is the link between loud sound and black holes???

a star explosion will be a projection of gas matter.
this matter will generate a sound, audible if you are into this gas.
this sound is mesured by radiotelescopes, that see it, not ear it.
then, the "light" modulation is converted in sound, to feel some effects with ears.

we are just trying to understand, BTW, we don't understand.

the orbit of a planet can be interpreted as a very very loud sound:

w(earth) = 1 year.
f=1/w
Post 05 May 2008, 13:16
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
sorry for my poor english.

i mean,

if we simulate the whole thing in a smaller size.
the idea is, we get a very solid box, put a solid ball in it that can withstand the vacuum pressure, inside the ball, put air, and a bomb or many bombs Razz . (anything that can explode) put a timer inside the bomb

now, when the bomb explodes, the solid ball will burst, the pressure will get higher and they have no more to go, since they are restricted by the more solid bigger box that hold the vacuum space and the exploded bomb.

now, what would happen inside that box? would image like galaxy could be obtained inside that box?
Post 05 May 2008, 16:27
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
sleepsleep wrote:
sorry for my poor english.

i mean,

if we simulate the whole thing in a smaller size.
the idea is, we get a very solid box, put a solid ball in it that can withstand the vacuum pressure, inside the ball, put air, and a bomb or many bombs Razz . (anything that can explode) put a timer inside the bomb

now, when the bomb explodes, the solid ball will burst, the pressure will get higher and they have no more to go, since they are restricted by the more solid bigger box that hold the vacuum space and the exploded bomb.

now, what would happen inside that box? would image like galaxy could be obtained inside that box?
I think it depends on the size of the box in question. If the box is 1cm^3 then I doubt you will see any galaxies, just a mess of expanded matter floating around inside the box. If the box is considerably larger, say universe sized, and the "bomb" is also larger, say universe mass in a very^9999 small space, then you would most likely see the big bang all over again.

I'm not quite sure what you are really asking about, once the "bomb" explodes and fills the vacuum with matter, then the vacuum, by definition, is gone. You can't fill it up and still have a vacuum. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Post 05 May 2008, 16:51
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sakeniwefu



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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sakeniwefu
Vacuum(not really achievable anyways) doesn't null out the Laws of gravity. All your exploded matter will either fall down if it condenses or solidifies or grow to fill your box more or less uniformly. If your box was in low gravity some structures might arise but as your bodies would have a ridiculous mass the gas will never collapse.
However, I find the sound question interesting. If there is a BANG and the gas eventually reached your sonic receptors it would have to be some sort of sound. Extremely weak probably if you 'heard' it from a safe distance as pressure will be reduced exponentially with distance.
Post 06 May 2008, 19:38
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DOS386



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DOS386
> fire cracker in a sealed ballon like thingy with air for it to burn and explode

Hint: bombs and similar crap usually don't need oxygen to "burn" or explode

> now, what would happen inside that box?

The bomb will explode, pieces of it will hit the walls, pressure will increase, and

- The box remains instact Smile
or
- The box explodes also, your vacuum has gone, everybody hears about your attack ... Sad

> Vacuum(not really achievable anyways)

Vacuum is pretty well doable ... but nevertheless gravity will remain ON of course Wink
Post 07 May 2008, 08:10
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DustWolf



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DustWolf
Sleepsleep: The earth is a ball floating in vaccum. If you clap your hands to make a sound, does the universe explode?

...not exactly.
Post 12 May 2008, 20:54
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