Index
> Feedback > Moderators needed: Mr. HELL ???Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next |
| Following person should become moderator | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Total Votes : 17 |
| Author |
|
|
f0dder
rugxulo wrote: Was C++ any good in 1998?  - especially publicly available code from that era has so many problems (compiler-specific hacks, ugly/non-existant naming scheemes, over-complicated and crappy class hierarchies, et cetera).
rugxulo wrote: Would you still use such a compiler from that era, f0dder? rugxulo wrote: Anyways, the point being is that if people call it great today only until a new version is out, then it isn't really great, is it? rugxulo wrote: P.S. I don't hate C++, but it's like a foreign language (seriously!) trying to understand what the hell they're talking about. rugxulo wrote: Too many comp.sci. nerds trying to stuff every feature into a simple program that probably isn't right for C++ anyways. rugxulo wrote: (No language is ideal for everything ... unless you're really smart like Tomasz or Octavio, heh.) I've only seen one language that I'd say really sucks, which is PowerBASIC... and that's because of it's various limitations, coupled with the high arrogance of the developers and it's userbase. Yeah, there's very arrogant C++ programmers as well , but at least the language performs... both feature-wise (functional, object-oriented and even sorta-functional (through template meteprogramming) coding are all supported, there's lots of flexibility) as well as performance-wise (today's compilers produce pretty decent code, and there's decent standard library implementations as well).
I'm not claiming C++ is the end-all-be-all language though, because it isn't. While it's pretty flexbile and well suited for a wide range of tasks (yes, I'm biased, but I can't think of a single other language that's as applicable), you can often do better for specific tasks. Sometimes you need to drop to assembly, sometimes it makes more sense using Python, or domain languages (I would consider regular expressions a domain language, btw ). |
|||
25 Mar 2008, 00:35 |
|
|
rugxulo
f0dder wrote:
Well, that could apply to any language. I've seen some pretty bad C code (though I admit to not really grok all of that either). Quote:
Obviously, I mean, why use old just to be using old? But I meant "Is it still considered decent enough?" Quote:
In general or just due to lacking SIMD stuff? I know there are some you've said are subpar which I've never used (e.g. Borland 5.5). Quote:
The latest alpha of 7-Zip uses mostly MSVC 6.0 for Win9x compatibility and now also with a bit of MSVC 8.0 for speed, and it definitely shows (see here). And MSVC 6.0 is more commonly used (although much worse compatibility or so I heard). Quote:
Some people still hate Pascal. But others love Delphi / FreePascal. I dunno, it seems to be not complete crap. (Same with FreeBASIC, heh. Must be a "free" thing.) 
Quote:
There's a lot of languages out there!!! (And Haskell is used for one Perl 6 runtime, last I heard. I forget what other big project used Haskell. Erlang? Not much, but the thing I recall being interesting was that it outputted C.) Quote:
You have to learn by using, yes, but sometimes it's like overkill. Quote:
It's a challenge to merge two (or more) languages into one program, though. I think that alone makes people stick to only one sometimes. Quote:
Has that even been updated in the past few years? Isn't it (reportedly) really slow and 16-bit? (Or else barely 386?) Quote:
It's just that some people assume G++, which makes it hard to use something like OpenWatcom (whose C++ isn't quite as modern). I just don't see the advantage to breaking compatibility in the name of coding convenience, that's all. The program should run on as many cpus as possible. I'm not saying a billion hacks are good, but a few won't kill ya. Quote:
I know they wanted it to be more compatible with C, and C99 didn't quite do that. But at least it ain't too bad. It's more or less compatible (though not as much as Objective C). Quote:
sed is Turing complete, and one guy basically proved it. And some other guys wrote some things like dc (calculator), sokoban, and an unlambda interpreter. And yes, I remember reading on slashdot, "This is a bad example of not 'using the right tool for the job' " (even though it is pretty cool, heh). |
|||
|
25 Mar 2008, 06:31 |
|
|
f0dder
rugxulo wrote: Well, that could apply to any language. I've seen some pretty bad C code (though I admit to not really grok all of that either). . There's also pretty decent examples around, for instance the bits of the BSD source code I've been glancing at were pretty nice.
rugxulo wrote: Obviously, I mean, why use old just to be using old? But I meant "Is it still considered decent enough?"
rugxulo wrote: In general or just due to lacking SIMD stuff? I know there are some you've said are subpar which I've never used (e.g. Borland 5.5). rugxulo wrote: The latest alpha of 7-Zip uses mostly MSVC 6.0 for Win9x compatibility and now also with a bit of MSVC 8.0 for speed, and it definitely shows (see here). And MSVC 6.0 is more commonly used (although much worse compatibility or so I heard). rugxulo wrote: Some people still hate Pascal. But others love Delphi / FreePascal. I dunno, it seems to be not complete crap. (Same with FreeBASIC, heh. Must be a "free" thing.)
rugxulo wrote: It's a challenge to merge two (or more) languages into one program, though. I think that alone makes people stick to only one sometimes. rugxulo wrote:
rugxulo wrote: It's just that some people assume G++, which makes it hard to use something like OpenWatcom (whose C++ isn't quite as modern). I just don't see the advantage to breaking compatibility in the name of coding convenience, that's all. The program should run on as many cpus as possible. I'm not saying a billion hacks are good, but a few won't kill ya. . Note that I'm not saying you shouldn't care about performance and code bloat (as long as you don't obsess over it), just that there's not much reason to stick with K&R C and keeping 16-bit processors in mind.
rugxulo wrote: sed is Turing complete, and one guy basically proved it. And some other guys wrote some things like dc (calculator), sokoban, and an unlambda interpreter. And yes, I remember reading on slashdot, "This is a bad example of not 'using the right tool for the job' " (even though it is pretty cool, heh). |
|||
|
25 Mar 2008, 14:33 |
|
|
MichaelH
f0dder in another thread wrote:
Pretty arrogant comment considering the fact that you're at an assembler forum and all you ever seem to do is rant on about c\c++  |
|||
|
25 Mar 2008, 21:28 |
|
|
edfed
asm will conquier the world.
you are a soldier of asm, your mission is to convince the others to code in asm. like a missionary. just explain, where is the benefit in C/c++ coding, if all platform share the same machine language? now, the X86 comes to be the best hardware implementation for coding. it's very close to the HLL, but as it is only for X86, it cannot cover all the needs of programmers. but maybe, one day, all machines will be at least x86 32 RM compatible, this is the best thing to do for this century. all x86. |
|||
|
25 Mar 2008, 22:12 |
|
|
MichaelH
edfed wrote:
I'm not here to convince anyone to do anything but once, in the early days of the internet, it was considered rude to visit forums and pollute it with subjects other than the subject the forum was intended for. Am I mistaken in my belief that this is not a forum for c\c++ evangelists like f0dder? With all the nonsense c\c++ crap all over this forum now, is this forum an assembler forum or a c\c++ forum?????? This question is relevant to the thread about admins. Perhaps admins need to be more aggressive towards deleting posts about c\c++. |
|||
|
25 Mar 2008, 23:03 |
|
|
edfed
it remember me a girl of new york, she was there for holiday, we drunk about 3 bootles of wine , didn't fuck
, but spoke a lot about... OPEN MIND.
OPEN your MIND, then, C,C++ are not devil, just little things we don't care about, but if people think it is convenient to speak about C,C++ on this forum, why not... but yes, it is an ASM forum, then, please, gentlemens, can you speak more about asm, code a little, post some code, make it better, etc... a language without coder is nothing. then, if nobody code in asm, what will be the reason to have a forum on asm??? sara, i think about you...  |
|||
|
25 Mar 2008, 23:21 |
|
|
MichaelH
edfed wrote:
..... sure why not, why not google and have ten pages of links to every other subject than the subject you are searching for ..... why not have doctors learn medicine from books about plumbing ...... why not, because this is the flat assembler forum, a forum about and for those who are interested in, the assembler language!!!!! |
|||
|
25 Mar 2008, 23:58 |
|
|
rugxulo
I think this was blown out of proportion a little bit. I mean, there's barely five posts or so by f0dder about C++, and I (at least) was genuinely conversing with him about it. But anyways, it's moot, the topic's finished. Let's not go overboard with "strictly asm only" here to the point where we have to delete every other thread.
|
|||
|
26 Mar 2008, 22:32 |
|
|
f0dder
And note that I dragged it in as a piece of helpful advice - if you're taking a class on C++ and basically doing inline assembly, your teacher has every right to give you an F-. Just like in the real world, if you don't stick to a contract, your client/employer has the right to take you off a project.
I guess MichaelH has a personal problem with me, *shrug*. |
|||
|
26 Mar 2008, 23:48 |
|
|
MichaelH
I haven't got a personal anything with you f0dder, I don't even know who you are apart from some evangelistic c\c++ ranter who never stops posting off topic posts in a forum about assembler.
|
|||
|
27 Mar 2008, 01:23 |
|
|
f0dder
C++ evangelist? Hardly. Pragmatic realist? Yes. Posting off-topic? Yeah, like everybody else. Tongue in cheek and somewhat provocative? hell yes.
|
|||
|
27 Mar 2008, 01:33 |
|
|
edfed
if all topic had only in topic post, it will be sooo poor.
like if it was bureacraty, berk no one want it. if you want a pure text in topic, take a tutorial or a techinical document, it speak only about one thing.  |
|||
|
27 Mar 2008, 01:41 |
|
|
MichaelH
f0dder wrote:
I think you'd have more fun debating that point with a .net c# or maybe even vb evangelist
Anyway, now that we've once again gone down the exciting path that is c\c++ (thanks again f0dder for your brilliant informative tid bits on the fascinating world of c\c++), can we get back to the topic ..... what is being done about the future of the fasm forums admins..... anything? |
|||
|
27 Mar 2008, 01:47 |
|
|
vid
MichaelH wrote: Pretty arrogant comment considering the fact that you're at an assembler forum and all you ever seem to do is rant on about c\c++ The simple truth which you don't like (notice the "don't like", liking doesn't have to do anything with reality) is that assembler is NOT the best solution for everything. Sorry, i believe you would be glad if it was, but it isn't. Nothing is. Best advice i can give to any asm-zealot (like i was) is to GET REAL PROJECT EXPERIENCE. Assembly is still wonderfull language, i believe every C coder should learn it, and most C++ coders should learn it. Otherwise they utilize stuff they don't understand. But assembly alone is ignorance (and yes, i was ignorant too in past) or lack of knowledge to judge properly. |
|||
|
27 Mar 2008, 22:50 |
|
|
vid
sorry for last offtopic, had to react.
As for FASM board admin: I believe that in current situtation it would be ideal to nominate revolution for moderator (not "admin" MichaelH, btw) |
|||
|
27 Mar 2008, 22:53 |
|
|
edfed
revolution as mod +1
and i start to see the limitations of pure asm... it's true, asm is powerfull. the layer where to act in case of poor performances or simple algorythm to devellop (no need of C to code a simple add eax,1). but the C and C++ have their word to say, just because they can manipulate asm transparentlly, and can manage more abstractions levels than pure asm. just to ouput a value, in asm, it's a misery, and in C/C++, it's as simple as writing printf or cout. for macro addicts: a good thing can be to developp a macro file to write C/C++ with fasm... |
|||
|
27 Mar 2008, 23:07 |
|
|
revolution
I think this person should be a mod, just because the handle is so cool.
Hehe, I wish my handle was as good as that. If I was to be a mod then the first thing I'll do is delete all the posts by that rapscallion revolution. He/she never even has the decency to give a proper location and also is very naughty by not properly saying what gender he/she is. I wouldn't trust anyone like that.  |
|||
|
27 Mar 2008, 23:55 |
|
|
edfed
the revolution don't have any gender, and don't have a fixed location, then, it's natural we don't know any of both... don't be so angry angainst this user.
|
|||
|
28 Mar 2008, 00:06 |
|
| Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next < Last Thread | Next Thread > |
Forum Rules:
|