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MartinHschei



Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Oslo,Norway
MartinHschei
Any good books on learning OS independent assembly?
All the books i find seems to be assembly with Linux,DOS or Win32.


What seems to be something what i'm looking for is this one:

http://www.amazon.com/80X86-IBM-Compatible-Computers-Interfacing/dp/013061775X/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202907109&sr=8-12

From the back cover:"DOS memory management".
I'm looking for a book that is about "standard" x86 assembly language.

What i think; there is no such thing as a memory model without a OS?
Just X amount of memory addresses.
Got a lot of questions like this and want to get them answered.

Any one got experience with the book mentioned above or got any other recommendations?


// Martin
Post 13 Feb 2008, 12:59
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17437
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
You can get the CPU specs directly from Intel and/or AMD, they deal mainly with just the processor. But it is not a tutorial, so if you are just beginning your learning on assembly coding then it would be tough going.

I think you would find it impossible to get a good tutoring manual that does not guide you through programs for a particular OS. But if you do find one then be sure to share the news here.
Post 13 Feb 2008, 13:06
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dap



Joined: 01 Dec 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Belgium
dap
Have you read something more general like Modern operating systems before ?


Last edited by dap on 14 Feb 2008, 14:02; edited 1 time in total
Post 13 Feb 2008, 17:19
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MartinHschei



Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Oslo,Norway
MartinHschei
I might be misunderstanding, but the MenuetOS ,for example, have to be written in "OS independent assembly", right?

Case you didn't noticed; I'm new to assembly and programming i general.
I'm actucally reading a book on Win32 assembly by Kip Irvine which is good. Just got a feeling that it's packed with references to certain libraries which do large parts of the work. But i guess that's the way it is with Windows and assembly?
With this book there is actually his own libraries 'irvine32.inc' etc.
Don't know if those contain the same as those kernel32 ++ libraries? Any method for finding out?

// Martin
Post 13 Feb 2008, 19:49
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17437
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
MenuetOS is the OS, so it will necessarily be very dependant upon an OS, i.e. itself.

Basically you can't go about writing programs without running them on something. So for a beginner you will need some OS to run your code. The only way to run things without an OS is to write you own OS/bootloader type of thing that will run on your computer hardware at startup.
Post 13 Feb 2008, 19:53
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4240
Location: 2018
edfed
no need of an os to execute applications...
need a librairy, loaded at boot time, linked to applications, and then executed...
if it is for 16 or 32 bit programing, the loader load a disk buffer, and then copy it to an application selector, jump to application selector...
link librairy by far pointers... no ring protection.. maybe paging...

All in the trio:
1) boot loader
2) system loader
3) application loader
Question
Post 14 Feb 2008, 00:40
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Is there anyone out there who is stoned at the moment and can tranlate what edfed posted...... I could reply to him and say "yeah man", followed by a lot of giggling I suspose Smile
Post 14 Feb 2008, 01:03
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roboman



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 122
Location: USA
roboman
In short, the most basic function of the os is to load and run programs. You can run a program with no os, but you really need to write two programs, one that does what ever you want and another little one that loads and runs that program (the computer on boot up loads a tiny section of what ever is defined as the boot drive, that tiny section needs to contain a small program that loads your big program or you are trying to do something really simple and can cram it into around 1/4 k of space)
Post 14 Feb 2008, 04:26
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

In short, the most basic function of the os is to load and run programs.


You mean the os that edfed says you don't need. Guess the drugs and alcohol are really starting to do some damage huh edfed Smile
Post 14 Feb 2008, 05:12
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4240
Location: 2018
edfed
Code:
comloader:
kernel=1000h
entry=100h
;version 27/11/2007 01:48
        org 7C00h
        mov ax,cs
        mov ss,ax
        mov ds,ax
        mov [.bootdrive],dl
        mov ax,27fh     ;load 64k
        mov cx,2
        mov dh,0
        push word kernel+entry/16
        pop es
        mov bx,0
        int 13h
        cmp [.bootdrive],0
        jl @f
        mov dx,3f2h
        mov al,0
        out dx,al
@@:
        mov ax,kernel
        mov ds,ax
        mov ss,ax
        call kernel:entry
        int 19h
times 505-($-$$) db 0   ;here need of the global root, extended to other sectors
.bootdrive db ?         ;current bios drive, file system load the boot sector with drive?.
.nextsectorentry dd 0   ;as it names means, it is the next sector for entry in global root
dw 0aa55h               ;normally set for boot,but is unused by non boot drives.
    

and then:
Code:
include 'comloader.inc'
           org 100h
....
...
..
           retf
    
Post 14 Feb 2008, 15:51
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
MartinHschei, you may as well choose what OS you will be using the most and target learning assembly for that.
Post 14 Feb 2008, 19:02
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