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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/04/asia/04china.php
Good article, which however, makes no reference to FASM forum, which I found inaccessible both in BeiJing and in the hinterlands. Censored. Well, that's right, all kinds of stuff are discussed here. Sometimes we even discuss assembly language programming!
Smile
Post 04 Feb 2008, 13:44
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2915
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
The design/use of the internet makes censorship almost impossible. Governments are destined to make criminals of us all. Evil or Very Mad You pay the party or become a cog in the "Criminal Justice System". Licenses for this and that and the other - proof of our right to live/work in this land or another. My father told me I was born free, but it is getting harder to see that. My early childhood was a search for examples of our liberty and the greatness many have fought to protect. Security in the kindness and humanity of a neighbor, travel without restiction opening opportunities everywhere, and the lasting value of a hard days work - freedom all around.
Post 04 Feb 2008, 23:57
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Yep... all so-called socialist systems in world fucked up the idea too much in some areas (it's questionable to how extent their were forced to do it by "external influences"). China seems to be the last one remaining.

Not that we here have some real free massmedia or something, but such direct struggle-to-survive censorship should really be abolished.
Post 05 Feb 2008, 00:35
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Quote:

China seems to be the last one remaining.

mmmhh, not sure, but Cuba and Burma deserves some investigation.
Post 05 Feb 2008, 01:24
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
and france tend to become a censored net country too. that's the truth.
cause:
the law and sarko.
for the moment, i can write theses things, but how long???
Post 05 Feb 2008, 01:42
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

mmmhh, not sure, but Cuba and Burma deserves some investigation.


Also going by the bias pro US way the news is reported in my own country, I suspect NZ along with the entire western world needs some investigating. I'll probably be flamed for suggesting it but I can't really make a distinction between china's censorship and the pro US view that the rest of the world is drenched in each day. It all looks like censorship to me Sad
Post 05 Feb 2008, 03:00
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AlexP



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 561
Location: Out the window. Yes, that one.
AlexP
Can they do that?! ( I mean government's total control over media and citizens)
Post 05 Feb 2008, 04:32
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
You'd think they'd have better things to do instead of hovering over random people's lives. (Then again, ever heard of papparazzi??)
Post 05 Feb 2008, 04:37
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2915
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
Culture is not uniform - don't buy into the illusion of control. People have always been the power - currently, maybe a sleeping power. Confused As x86 coders we are a sub-culture as if we wrote poetry in Latin. Black markets, fringe movements - sub-culture is everywhere.

Sure we have common threads afterall we are all human. One day the governments of the world will wake up and realize their power structures have been circumvented by global communication. Once we get over ourselves as individuals, maybe? Governments still believe in their moral agenda - they have to save us from ourselves. The world is getting fucked up in the process.
Post 05 Feb 2008, 05:06
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Cuba is special case. Quite funny that entire USA wasn't able to put down Cuba's system even with all hardships inflicted, or even wasn't able to murder Castro with several hundred tries Very Happy

But i think that after USA got tricked by Russians in "cuban missile crisis", they agreed not to keep trying overthrow Cuban regime, and it looks they really lowered their effort.
Post 05 Feb 2008, 10:25
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Loco wrote:
...but Cuba and Burma deserves some investigation.
Is access to FASM forum restricted in Cuba?
MichaelH wrote:
...but I can't really make a distinction between china's censorship and the pro US view that the rest of the world is drenched in each day.
I don't deny that EVERY government issues propaganda, and you may well be correct that there is little difference between the pablum served up by USA versus Chinese governments, however, the point I sought to make, in introducing this thread, is that I personally had been unable to access FASM forum from China. Censorship of pornography is one thing, but where to draw the line? Personally, I have no animosity to those who would outlaw commercialization of sexually explicit video, but many other people would argue that there is nothing wrong with commerce, and private inclinations ought not be interfered with by any government. In the case of China, it is not simply pornography however, which is censored, but also ANY political content. FASM forum is outlawed, I believe, because of HEAP. Anyone else, besides me notice the dearth of Chinese FASM forum members? However, that does not explain why there are no Japanese, Korean, VietNamese, Thai, or Philippino FASM forum members.....Where are the Persians? Uzbeks? Tajiks? Nepalese? Africa too seems completely unrepresented on the forum.
So, censorship alone is not the reason. Moreover, in China there are ways around the censorship, though, I found those methods both inconvenient and troubling: What right did I, a foreigner, and a citizen of USA, have to consciously oppose official Chinese government policy? Maybe the people of China are better off NOT having access to FASM? Or, perhaps the situation has changed in recent years, and now the people there CAN access the forum, without engaging in deception (use of proxy sites). I wondered if M$ had some kind of agreement with the government there, so that piracy would be enforced against counterfeit Windows versions (cost of US$2.50 for XP, on nearly every street corner in BeiJing) in exchange for favorable rates selling to the government, official, non-pirated versions, and in that context, perhaps FASM was outlawed because it was viewed as the chief competitor of MASM.
In any event, I doubt that anyone living in the west has experienced an inability to access Chinese web sites, written entirely in Chinese language, but maybe I am in error. If that were the case, then, I believe one could argue correctly, that the two countries' practice of censorship demonstrated equivalency.
Crying or Very sad
Post 05 Feb 2008, 14:47
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Quote:

Is access to FASM forum restricted in Cuba?

Well, I think we have a Cuban on the board, however I heard but can't verify that Internet access is somewhat censored, for that reason I've said "deserves investigation" instead of "deserves to be put on the list" Wink
Post 05 Feb 2008, 15:38
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
USA is better at war in far countries, like IRAK.
Cuba is too much near of their country. just imagine the influence it can have on other south america countries if USA declare the war to cuba...
and irak, it was the soddom hussein land, this man was hated by all the world.
Post 05 Feb 2008, 15:57
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
USA is better at war in far countries, like IRAK

better for what?

Quote:
just imagine the influence it can have on other south america
countries if USA declare the war to cuba

why imagining? just look into history what effect it had when USA de-facto invaded cuba.

Quote:
and irak, it was the soddom hussein land, this man was hated by all the world.

from where do you know that?
Post 05 Feb 2008, 16:29
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
from media, the big brain washing machine.

usa is the best, USA is fantastic, it's a magic land. and it beat all the bad and devils. no?
Post 05 Feb 2008, 16:43
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
tom tobias wrote:
However, that does not explain why there are no Japanese, Korean, VietNamese, Thai, or Philippino FASM forum members.....Where are the Persians? Uzbeks? Tajiks? Nepalese? Africa too seems completely unrepresented on the forum.
Let us see:

Member .. Profile ..... Location ...................... Last Post
----------------------------------------------------------------
BiMode ..... Profile ...... Thailand ........................ 05 Dec 2007

pool ......... Profile ...... Philippines ..................... 17 Jan 2008

sekigun .... Profile ...... Japan ............................ 24 Jul 2007

Dilshod ..... Profile ...... Uzbekistan, Tashkent ....... 06 Sep 2005

As you can see, world isn't painted in such dark colors as you suggested. Wink
Post 05 Feb 2008, 19:43
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
It's probably more of a language barrier than censorship in the more "enlightened" countries.
Post 05 Feb 2008, 19:50
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Artlav



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 188
Location: Moscow, Russia
Artlav
LocoDelAssembly wrote:
Cuba deserves some investigation.

I haven't noticed any censorship on the tourist side of the fence, unless you can call that way the age-old computers on access points.

There seems to be no way to buy a mobile phone, yet there is certainly a way to use one. No use getting online thru it anyway - the speed is even worse than the price.

Just by looking on the way the people live there makes me doubt there are many people-owned computers in the country, much less internet-connected ones, but i didn't checked every house, so don't take it as absolute truth.

You are not allowed to own a map of the country or cities there, and no place seems to sell one, which is another factor against internet presence, as you can easily get maps thru it.

-----------------
On the censorship issue - it is only natural, i think, for socialist countries to suppress information from abroad, or how do you suppose the people will keep the government in command?
If we can call the way they live bad by comparison, so can they, and once they realize that, they will like to live better, and soon enough their government will lose the power.
That is said to be one of the reasons USSR broken up - information, slow reforms, desperate attempts at censorship, revolution.
Post 05 Feb 2008, 21:06
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Quote:

There seems to be no way to buy a mobile phone

According to a recording I heard about a Cuban trying to aquire a mobile phone service you can get one if you are a musician or if the ministry of I-don't-remember-what allows you to have one. But this recording of which I don't keep the link anymore, I have no way to verify that it wasn't pure acting, but didn't looked fake neither.

About access to computers you are right, perhaps they usually can't have one so they can't even crush with a block in first place.
Post 05 Feb 2008, 21:39
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