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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
is it possible that black holes are enormous atoms?
like N (atomic number) ~= 10^10000 ?
Post 25 Jan 2008, 16:10
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
I doubt it. Neutron stars are said to be one enormous neutron (due to the enormous crushing pressure fusing the electrons into the protons). So a black hole is a more extreme version of that. But not much is known about the degeneracy of neutrons under the extreme conditions of black holes.

And besides, your suggested number 10^10000 is just too big to be anything we know about. Even optimistic estimations of the total particles in the universe come to less than a googol (10^100).
Post 25 Jan 2008, 16:16
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edfed



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edfed
10^78 for atoms count.
it's an estimation, but how much universe there are? we don't know.
as what is the the maximum distance between two points of the universe, we don't know...
Post 25 Jan 2008, 16:21
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El Tangas



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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El Tangas
I really don't like the concept of black holes. I mean, matter colapsed to a point? C'mon... That's just unphysical, I think mathematicians are just taking over physics and they don't have any physical sense.
I hope some alternative theory is proven right. My favorite is the Magnetospheric Eternally Collapsing Object (MECO).
Post 26 Jan 2008, 19:12
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
i think black hole exists is because the universe is spreading outwards, so, like balloon, u blow the air inside, become bigger and bigger, then the balloon skin because more tinier, eventually, it will explode, so, blackhole is like the pre-explode balloon skin.

if what i knew is true, more and more blackhole will somehow appear

and how about imagine the universe is like multiple layers balloon.

so, let say blackhole is a hole to let us go into another layer Smile

Image
Post 27 Jan 2008, 01:25
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
sleepsleep: absolutey not. Black holes are simply very dense energy/matter (these two are really the same, you know, e=mc^2). Their gravity is so strong, that if you get near enough to them, it is not possible to get out anymore, even light can't get out (until blackhole finally collapses).

It's not portal to higher plane or any astral babble magic. Just very dense matter or energy.
Post 27 Jan 2008, 01:37
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
uranium is a dense atom.
but after, there could be some atoms with higher atomic N like N=100000000000000, it's enormous, and density of this kind of atom can be enough to eat everything. no?
Post 27 Jan 2008, 01:42
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revolution
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revolution
edfed seems focussed upon making black holes from atoms. It doesn't work that way. Your N value is not big enough anyhow. Do some google searches to read about the theory. Wikipedia has a nice article.
Post 27 Jan 2008, 04:41
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edfed



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edfed
i know the "official" theory, i just think of the case they are wrong...
Post 27 Jan 2008, 05:08
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
In case "they are wrong", even speaking of atoms bears no meaning. And if they are wrong, you can be pretty sure you won't quess the right answer without knowing anything about it.
Post 27 Jan 2008, 09:38
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
vid wrote:
It's not portal to higher plane or any astral babble magic. Just very dense matter or energy.
How do you know, have you been inside one? Shocked
Post 27 Jan 2008, 15:04
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vid
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vid
grey beast: we already know how physics, gravity, etc works. all these principes are pretty much tested and comply with all proper observations ever done. Blackholes are just another of many applications of these principes.

It's like asking how can i be sure that jumping inside volcano isn't door out of matrix, when i haven't jumped inside one. I admit I haven't jumped into volcano yet, but still i am pretty sure it isn't door out of matrix.
Post 27 Jan 2008, 15:18
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Borsuc



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Borsuc
vid wrote:
grey beast: we already know how physics, gravity, etc works. all these principes are pretty much tested and comply with all proper observations ever done. Blackholes are just another of many applications of these principes.
but what if they're not? after all these principles were discovered by "going through them", and that means we'll also have to go through black holes Cool

vid wrote:
It's like asking how can i be sure that jumping inside volcano isn't door out of matrix, when i haven't jumped inside one. I admit I haven't jumped into volcano yet, but still i am pretty sure it isn't door out of matrix.
well to be certain i think you should jump if you have any interest in that

but actually what I was saying is that black holes distort space and time (at more than lightspeed inside) and that could perhaps do something weird. Not only that, but maybe they distort dark energies/matter too (of course if I were to say this 20 years ago scientists would laugh at me, but now dark matter/energy is considered a part of the universe, like extending it or something and forming the "space" between particles, but let's not get into that).
Post 27 Jan 2008, 15:33
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Quote:
after all these principles were discovered by "going through them", and that means we'll also have to go through black holes

But black holes are not other principes. Black holes are just another implications of already discovered principes. As you said, we already have gone through principes that make black holes.

Quote:
but actually what I was saying is that black holes distort space and time (at more than lightspeed inside)

just reminder that distorting spacetime is pretty normal thing - it's called "gravity".

Quote:
and that could perhaps do something weird.

Surely it does something that would appear "weird" to us. But no magic, simply you would much faster in time than things around you.

All we know about black holes comes solely from science, and there is no reason to try to push some non-scientific concepts into black holes. Of course that all those astral/chakra/numerology/matrix guys try to back up their nonsense by pushing it into science, but that simply doesn't work that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole#What_happens_when_something_falls_into_a_black_hole.3F
Post 27 Jan 2008, 16:00
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
what you are talking about may be this hypothesis, but that's just fiction for now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormholes
Post 27 Jan 2008, 16:02
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edfed



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edfed
about the official science.... i can say this:
official science is like politic.

it's full of idiiots. in middle age, they said :
earth is plate.

in early 20th century, they said:
big bang is ~5 billions years old.
black holes are black.

now, they say:
soul doesn't exist, it's a neural mechanism.

tomorrow, they'll say:
hooo, we are not alone in the universe, and we were wrong on all the line. from gravity to atom nature (protons, neutrons, electrons).

i don't give any credit to guys that accept only the official theory explained by some businesmens dressed like scientifics. they are the same that make some nuclear tests in the pacific ocean... and the same that want to implant some chips under our skin.

i think black holes can be anything, as nobody can guess what is inside black holes.
probable that it's an other universe. not a door, a complete dense universe...
Post 27 Jan 2008, 16:18
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revolution
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revolution
edfed wrote:
i think black holes can be anything, ...
No, they can't be anything, they are black holes and nothing else. Even black holes will have to follow the laws of physics.
edfed wrote:
... as nobody can guess what is inside black holes.
Everybody can guess what is inside, you have also guessed in a previous post not far above this.
edfed wrote:
probable that it's an other universe. not a door, a complete dense universe...
I hardly think your uninformed guess is probable, instead I would think your guess is highly unlikely. When given the choice between your guesses, and the guesses of experts that study the field for a living, I choose the latter. It may turn out that the current theories are wrong. That happens a lot in physics, but at least when new evidence if discovered they have the sense to accept it and change the theories to suit. That is called responsible and mature science. Current theories are always just the best guess, you can't expect anything more then that. Physicists are human too.
Post 27 Jan 2008, 18:44
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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rugxulo
I always thought of black holes as the universe's landfill, a place where you throw stuff away that you don't need anymore. Not very scientific, but that's all I see it for. Wink
Post 27 Jan 2008, 20:13
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
rugxulo: hmm... good idea, they'll make a nice waste disposal in future Smile
Post 27 Jan 2008, 22:14
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edfed



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edfed
for radioactive garbages treatment?

blackholes or not blackholes, that is the question... Smile
Post 27 Jan 2008, 23:00
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