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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
bitRAKE wrote:

I'm kind of in agreement with tom on the whole permission arguement.


I'm totally in agreement with tom. He is promoting what I believe in. Just give me an OS that goes on a flash stick (no not a 4 gig linux distro), has an editor, fasm, email (there's got to be a better alternative to email) and an app to access the internet (no more than 100k). Browsers are complete nonsense, it's time to dump all shit on the net and standardise it so a browser can be under 100k.

The complete bloat nonsense of both Linux and windows is ridiculous. I believe an OS with all apps needed should be under 1 megabyte, it should be able to be carried in your pocket along with the hardware to run it if needed. It should be able to run any app downloaded from the net on the fly and run it without restrictions. If any app is a viruse, the OS should be able to reboot instantly or the flash stick re inserted and loaded again free of the virus.

As for restricting network access, that's the role of things like routers and firewall apps that do not need to be in a users OS.
Post 08 Feb 2008, 22:53
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
MichaelH wrote:
Just give me an OS that goes on a flash stick (no not a 4 gig linux distro), has an editor, fasm, email (there's got to be a better alternative to email) and an app to access the internet (no more than 100k). Browsers are complete nonsense, it's time to dump all shit on the net and standardise it so a browser can be under 100k.
Since when is Linux anywhere near 4Gb? Just yesterday, someone told me they slimmed Vista down to 3.5Gb using a trimming program so don't go and tell me Linux is anywhere near 4Gb.

Quote:
I believe an OS with all apps needed should be under 1 megabyte
Define "all apps". If you expect to get Word, forget it.
Quote:
it should be able to be carried in your pocket along with the hardware to run it if needed.
iPhone. For documents, you an access Google Docs. The web is the OS.
Post 09 Feb 2008, 03:22
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

Since when is Linux anywhere near 4Gb?


I haven't got Unbuntu to install on a flash stick smaller than 4 gig. Perhaps you have, if so, good for you.

Quote:

Define "all apps".


I thought I already did.


Quote:

For documents, you an access Google Docs. The web is the OS.


Maybe you envision Google Docs (Google apps) as the future but I envision the death of all current web technology associated with current web browsers and the lean mean web apps run by a lean mean OS kernel (probably less than 100k) like I talked of above.

Forget Linux and windows .... they're already dead!!!!
Post 09 Feb 2008, 04:13
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Raedwulf



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: United Kingdom
Raedwulf
If you want small linux distros:
http://damnsmalllinux.org/

http://www.puppylinux.org/user/viewpage.php?page_id=1

Granted these don't fit in 1MB, but nor did DOS 6.22 Smile, nor for that matter Menuetos. However, those linux distros do fit on a Flashdrive of a 100MB. (and DSL on a 50mb drive).

Webbrowser? Have a look at Dillo or have a look at elinks Smile.
Dillo is around 350 KB browser - it is atleast in the same order of magnitude which you require.
Post 09 Feb 2008, 07:25
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
MichaelH wrote:
Browsers are complete nonsense, it's time to dump all shit on the net and standardise it so a browser can be under 100k.

I doubt you can make a browser that small, unless you want to drop CSS, XML, JavaScript, etc. and go back to HTML 1.0. Of course the aforementioned things can be pushed out to modules usable by the rest of the system, and you could then argue that the browser itself is <= 100kb, but meh.

MichaelH wrote:
As for restricting network access, that's the role of things like routers and firewall apps that do not need to be in a users OS.

That's fine enough for blocking threats from the internet... but it doesn't save you from people attacking you from a LAN.
Post 09 Feb 2008, 09:03
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
I was being generous about a web browser being under 100k, what I really mean is web apps probably under 10k with no such thing as a web browser, rather like a app seen currently on KolibriOS.

I'm talking about an OS, with apps, that installs in milliseconds and viruses just being part of the fun that will be the future web. Things like the user getting the option of being notified or not whether the OS does a 20 millisecond reboot to purge a virus. Apps from the web with free access to run if the user says it's ok and even if it's a virus no harm is done because the OS has been loaded in memory from a flash stick or the net.


KolibriOS kernel is little more than 60k. With most of the junk thrown out of it's image, this distro with apps is under 100k. Diamonds excellent windows emulator of KolibriOS is a little over 40k. This kind of OS is the future of computing as I see it. KolibriOS probably will never amount to much more than it is now????? but it sure does show what is possible.

Quote:

I doubt you can make a browser that small, unless you want to drop CSS, XML, JavaScript, etc. and go back to HTML 1.0.


No I mean dump everything and go back to binary formats. Using fasm's virtual directive with the load directive .... well you know fasm so you can see what I'm saying.

Quote:

Of course the aforementioned things can be pushed out to modules


Why???? A kernel under 100k is lean and mean, forget about CSS, XML, JavaScript, flash media player, java etc etc. It's time to go back to basics and I see no reason why the fasm community can't be leaders in this respect instead of sheep baaaaaaaaaa
Post 09 Feb 2008, 09:41
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
an os in not a goal.
an os in just an operating system. to operate with the machine.
there are os on mobile phones that can browse the internet, less than 1G.
there are os everywhere there is a menu, with choises, items, text, etc...
os don't means linux or window$
os means os.
fasm can be an os too, if tomasz code a bootable version that do not require any external lib.
os is an acronym for a big word, that's all.
after, about the size of the browser, it simply depend on the language to interpret.
html+css+java+flash... this is a big shit of layers, made to be multiltform, in a world who become monoplatform.
in the next years, mobile phones will be in X86, apple is still X86, so, then, the web will be X86, and the html+css+java+flash will be obsolete.
so a web browser will be only 10kbytes.

i'm just curious to know what os will code intel, if they do that one day...
Post 09 Feb 2008, 13:08
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Raedwulf



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: United Kingdom
Raedwulf
edfed wrote:

in the next years, mobile phones will be in X86, apple is still X86, so, then, the web will be X86, and the html+css+java+flash will be obsolete.
so a web browser will be only 10kbytes.

i'm just curious to know what os will code intel, if they do that one day...


What on earth are you on about? I just didn't understand it lol Smile

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Raedwulf
Post 12 Feb 2008, 08:22
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8870
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sleepsleep
what i could see is, handphone will have more and more power.

eg.
handphone
- sms
- call/receive
- tv
- radio
- mp3,mp4,ogg,flv player
- wifi/3g web access (need bigger screen or can use external lcd to view)
- qwert keyboard (external ps/2 / usb port)
- touch screen
- can run windows application without modification
- audio recorder, bigger HD, eg. standard = 80GB

i think what lacking now is handphone should have ports to connect to LCD/monitor, or LAN, or keyboard/mouse (i wonder whether google android got it or not) if they got, i am quite sure google could take over MS operating system soon.
Post 12 Feb 2008, 18:25
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
MichaelH, if you want to be able to reboot without damage, liveCDs (e.g. DamnSmallLinux and Puppy are darn good) are probably your best bet. Or something like the SplashTop. BTW, do check out a small two-floppy distro like BlueFlops (2.6.18-ck1 with almost all of the Ethernet drivers and PPP support, gfx www: links/svgalib, irc: rhapsody).

sleepsleep, I assume you're aware of the Nokia NGage, PalmOS, PocketPC, Tapwave Zodiac, PSP, iPod Touch, iPhone, etc.

P.S. Just to be on-topic, read this:

Linus Torvalds on Why Users Aren't Flocking to Linux


Last edited by rugxulo on 13 Feb 2008, 07:24; edited 1 time in total
Post 13 Feb 2008, 07:02
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
edfed wrote:
my brother too pollute my system, the big problme is to tell it to whithout fighting.
he is really dumb, and believes is his intelligent. there is no days without shout or clash. i become crazy...
he constantly shout on me, saying:
...
some words that gives me murder ideas. one days, i'll fight him, and he will go to hospital.
and he always let enter virus on my PCs.

i dislike peoples like him.
really dislike. want to kill them. i cannot code if he is there. impossible, he constantly says that it shit, that i'm shit, and i don't fight him, can anybody tell me what to do to stop it?



  • set up a computer schedule so that you aren't fighting over it (assuming you share one)
  • get a second (used?) cpu for him to play on
  • get a DVD player and some movies and/or another tv to occupy him
  • get him an old Lynx or GBA or PSP to occupy him
  • get him a PDA to occupy him
  • ask him nicely/repeatedly to give you a break
  • make him a sandwich to shut him up
  • find him a girlfriend
  • find him a job
  • find a common interest (favorite band, tv show, book, food to cook)
  • bring him to the library to rent some books to keep off your back
  • turn on the radio to something soothing (that won't annoy you or him)
  • get him medical (psychological) help
  • pray pray PRAY (!) to God/Christ for him (most important suggestion!)


EDIT: Remember, anger and depression are very closely related, so he may be really sad instead of inherently angry (despite outward appearances).
Post 13 Feb 2008, 07:16
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
saw this gobolinux recently, i think their new way to put files more nicer compare to traditional linux.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoboLinux

Code:
/Programs/

/Users/

/System/

Links/
    Environment/
    Executables/
    Headers/
    Libraries/
    Manuals/
    Shared/
    Tasks/

Settings/
    BootScripts/

Variable/
    tmp/

Kernel/
    Boot/
    Devices/
    Modules/
    Objects/
    Status/

/Files/

/Mount/

/Depot/
    


isn't it very clear and clean.
Post 12 Apr 2008, 13:42
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
MichaelH wrote:
Browsers are complete nonsense, it's time to dump all shit on the net and standardise it so a browser can be under 100k.

yeah, right after we end all wars and poverty in world... Rolling Eyes
Post 12 Apr 2008, 13:49
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
you forgot that we all find a very pretty girl and have the right to drink beers while driving. and we never die.

browsers are (not a certitude) the program you use to post mesages in this board? am i right?
Post 12 Apr 2008, 13:58
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
sleepsleep wrote:
saw this gobolinux recently, i think their new way to put files more nicer compare to traditional linux.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoboLinux

Code:
/Programs/

/Users/

/System/

Links/
    Environment/
    Executables/
    Headers/
    Libraries/
    Manuals/
    Shared/
    Tasks/

Settings/
    BootScripts/

Variable/
    tmp/

Kernel/
    Boot/
    Devices/
    Modules/
    Objects/
    Status/

/Files/

/Mount/

/Depot/
    


isn't it very clear and clean.
Less FHS & more Windows ? Laughing
Post 13 Apr 2008, 11:48
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8870
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sleepsleep
Quote:

Less FHS & more Windows ?

well, if it looks logical, why not Smile
actually, isn't logical to put programs under folder programs/ ?

imo, the structure that gobolinux uses, for me.... looks logical and attractive Smile
Post 13 Apr 2008, 13:07
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17249
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
To answer the original question of this topic: here is a good example of the reason why the general population don't use Linux.
Post 16 Apr 2008, 20:15
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo

  • incompatible hardware (yes, it still happens! although less commonly)
  • steep learning curve
  • no modern games
  • Windows comes preinstalled and does all they need
  • lacking certain apps (e.g. Photoshop, which WINE is working on fixing)


In fact, Linux has really taken off in these past few years, so more and more people are beginning to use it.
Post 21 Apr 2008, 17:43
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Yeah, most people treat their computer as an appliance or game console.
Post 21 Apr 2008, 18:10
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
been spending some time booting xubuntu on my asus x51rl
so far, i quite like it, everything work out of box except the wifi and vga ati restricted driver.
Post 28 May 2008, 03:23
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