flat assembler
Message board for the users of flat assembler.

Index > Heap > embrace linux, bsd, sun solaris, open source, why we haven't

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author
Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8867
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
nyrtzi wrote:

Why not just use both? Like for example running Linux as a virtual machine inside Windows? Works just fine for me.

i use this approach too, =)
or let windows trial os 180 days to become hardware host.

HaHaAnonymous wrote:

Haha, Linux has become my primary OS now. I don't use Windows for many days already.

in certain ways, linux still seems too complex, but glad, things are getting better days to days.

HaHaAnonymous wrote:

Windows/"Paid OS" can be forgotten if you really want to live better.

in certain ways, windows still seems better compare to linux or other opensource os.
Post 26 Oct 2013, 19:52
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1180
Location: Unknown
HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 19:39; edited 1 time in total
Post 26 Oct 2013, 19:58
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
nyrtzi



Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Off the scale in the third direction
nyrtzi
HaHaAnonymous wrote:

Windows/"Paid OS" can be forgotten if you really want to live better.


Unfortunately I still need to run some Windows-only software which doesn't behave very well inside a virtual machine (it needs direct access to hardware).

And using a virtual machine gives one extra advantage. It makes it really easy to migrate my stuff from one machine to another. Laptops aren't eternal after all.
Post 27 Oct 2013, 09:20
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
nyrtzi



Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Off the scale in the third direction
nyrtzi
sleepsleep wrote:

HaHaAnonymous wrote:

Haha, Linux has become my primary OS now. I don't use Windows for many days already.

in certain ways, linux still seems too complex, but glad, things are getting better days to days.


Just wondering what kind of complexity you are talking about? What is it that makes it complex?

sleepsleep wrote:

HaHaAnonymous wrote:

Windows/"Paid OS" can be forgotten if you really want to live better.

in certain ways, windows still seems better compare to linux or other opensource os.


Better? Can you elaborate on this a little?
Post 27 Oct 2013, 09:41
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
HaHaAnonymous wrote:

Considering the facts of the world we live in: WINDOWS must be better than any free ($) OS in this planet because it is as expensive as [censored] (not to mention other headaches). Otherwise they are in danger, and shame.

Now my opinion: Linux is better, I love it. Razz


As much as I love Linux (or any kind of F/OSS OSes in general), I still use Windows at least because:
1. Games
Let's face it. Most game nowadays supports only Windows & gaming consoles (Playstation/Xbox).
Fortunately, now there is SteamOS, which makes Linux' position a bit favorable. But still, lots of supports from
major game publishers (Blizzard, EA Games, Square Enix, etc)for Linux are still needed.

2. Specific programming tools
I work as a developer in a smart card manufacturer.
While in theory we have an open standard: Java card, in reality we often deal with closed source, Windows only 3rd party tools.

Of course, if you like your OS to be open source & hackable, then don't use Windows Wink
Post 27 Oct 2013, 12:56
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1180
Location: Unknown
HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 19:39; edited 1 time in total
Post 27 Oct 2013, 13:09
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
HaHaAnonymous wrote:

Everything is "hackable". You are wasting time, my friend.

And Windows is not an exception.


That's why I said precisely "open source & hackable".
Sure any OS is practically hackable, as long as you want to invest some time learning & debugging it.

But Linux, being an open source OS, means that everyone can study Linux' code, and adapt it to their own need/preference.
And I think this is something that is encouraged by the Linux devs themselves.

For example, let's say the USB 4.0 controller already released and your Linux system doesn't support it.
In theory, you can just hack the kernel code to implement USB 4.0 support on your own.
Not sure can say the same thing about Windows, though. You have to wait for the update from MS. Wink
Post 27 Oct 2013, 13:34
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17248
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
TmX wrote:
For example, let's say the USB 4.0 controller already released and your Linux system doesn't support it.
In theory, you can just hack the kernel code to implement USB 4.0 support on your own.
Hmm, good luck with that. Just getting the docs for the new chips could be a major problem in itself.
TmX wrote:
Not sure can say the same thing about Windows, though. You have to wait for the update from MS.
Or more likely the mobo manufacturer and/or chip maker. Most of the drivers are not actually written by MS. And actually that is why Windows is easier to run on new hardware because the manufacturers support it with new drivers for it. Linux is always behind because of the doc problem and the motivations/incentives (i.e. money) are less for the devs. If we can convince the chip/mobo makers to support Linux with good quality drivers then things would be much easier.
Post 27 Oct 2013, 14:47
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
revolution wrote:
Hmm, good luck with that. Just getting the docs for the new chips could be a major problem in itself.


Major problem... like NDA?

TmX wrote:
Linux is always behind because of the doc problem and the motivations/incentives (i.e. money) are less for the devs.


I'm not really sure how Linux is always behind then Windows. But at least Linux has USB 3 first before Windows, right?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/11/linux-gets-first-driver-for-usb-3-0/

I'm also not really sure about how incentives are less for the devs. Take a look into the kernel code, and you'll find committers from big companies like Nvidia, Intel, Samsung, etc. These folks work on the kernel as their job (which means they get paid), and not free, spare-time hobby.

Of course, this is just a simple observation. I might be wrong. Smile
Post 27 Oct 2013, 15:10
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17248
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
TmX wrote:
Major problem... like NDA?
Sure. And other reasons like having to have a good reason for wanting the docs. Some makers even charge money for them! And some simply say "No. Use our driver so fuck you".
TmX wrote:
I'm also not really sure about how incentives are less for the devs. Take a look into the kernel code, and you'll find committers from big companies like Nvidia, Intel, Samsung, etc. These folks work on the kernel as their job (which means they get paid), and not free, spare-time hobby.
I wish were the normal situation. Every time I tried to install Linux on my Dell machine it was a complete disaster and I simply wasted my time. No working drivers and no support. I certainly wasn't getting paid to get it working by rewriting the drivers so I gave up after wasting a day and reinstalled Windows and had no further issues. Manufacturers get to sell you Windows and naturally they get a commission from that. But Linux has no payment for the manufacturers so there is no incentive to support it (except for "moral" and "community citizen" incentives). No money from sales of Linux means no money to pay support and dev staff so that money must come from other places.
Post 27 Oct 2013, 15:52
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1180
Location: Unknown
HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 19:39; edited 1 time in total
Post 27 Oct 2013, 16:10
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8867
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
nyrtzi wrote:
sleepsleep wrote:

HaHaAnonymous wrote:

Haha, Linux has become my primary OS now. I don't use Windows for many days already.

in certain ways, linux still seems too complex, but glad, things are getting better days to days.


Just wondering what kind of complexity you are talking about? What is it that makes it complex?


let me share some of the things that i observed.

1. more than 1 way to perform certain solution, and all that lead to more than 1 ways result and lead to more ways to continue, confusing in its own ways.

2. each distro with their own ways, complexity in its own, no way to understand how things work, new distro equal new ways of doing things overall.

3. remember command is compulsory,

4. the structure of files handling vary, depend on application, distro and etc.

5. more things you need to remember, understand, in order to feel comfortable, like a pilot looked car, you could drive the car, but knowing nothing about all the buttons on the panel makes you feel like you are idiot.

6. cpu usage spike higher compare than inside a windows environment while idle or doing simple stuffs.

nyrtzi wrote:

sleepsleep wrote:

HaHaAnonymous wrote:

Windows/"Paid OS" can be forgotten if you really want to live better.

in certain ways, windows still seems better compare to linux or other opensource os.


Better? Can you elaborate on this a little?


1. gui could solve most of the tasks you want to perform.

2. minimal layout to get people started, press more to explore deeper concept. (except windows 8 metro)

win8 is a total chaos, i use it without any love.
Post 27 Oct 2013, 19:39
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1180
Location: Unknown
HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 19:39; edited 1 time in total
Post 27 Oct 2013, 19:58
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
revolution wrote:
But Linux has no payment for the manufacturers so there is no incentive to support it (except for "moral" and "community citizen" incentives). No money from sales of Linux means no money to pay support and dev staff so that money must come from other places.


Fortunately, there are some Linux distros which have commercial support, like RedHat and Ubuntu. Wink
Unfortunately, there are not much of them (I think), so you have to rely on forum search, IRC, stackoverflow, etc everytime a problem is encountered. Sad
What do you expect, anyway. Most Linux distros are not made by commercial company.

That's why there is a good simple tip choosing your Linux distro:
choose the one that most of your friends are using it. Every time you meet a problem, you just ask them for help. Smile
Post 28 Oct 2013, 00:33
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
nyrtzi



Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Off the scale in the third direction
nyrtzi
@sleepsleep

Does it matter how many distros and apps do things differently if you don't use more than one or two distros and pick only one way of doing things out of all the possibilities?

CPU spikes on Linux? I don't remember ever seeing anything like that during my 12 years of using Linux. Then again I've properly used only 4 distros for longer periods of time.

A GUI? Different kinds of users have different needs and would need different kinds of user interfaces. Normally all I need is Konsole, Firefox/Chrome, Thunderbird and a PDF reader. Practically everything else I handle with shell commands and VI. For me just the idea putting a graphical point and click user interface between me and the the shell commands I need seems like a bad idea.

Remembering commands and so on is a problem? Not for me. For me remembering where to find stuff in the GUIs I rarely use is more of a problem. And there should be plenty of help on the internet for remembering both.
Post 28 Oct 2013, 07:01
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8867
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
@nyrtzi,
i tried several distros, and when you try to stick to one distro, you end up with a problem inside this distro that didn't appear in another distro, one switch, then another problem comes up in that distro but not appear in previous distro.

maybe i got higher expectation or i probably got some idea how things should work,

you mind to share me what distro you are using atm?

~~
personally, i like GUI, and i think, it simplify the learning path, getting users into comfort zone, imo, =) but i guess this is more to individual perspective view.
Post 28 Oct 2013, 13:36
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
nyrtzi



Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Off the scale in the third direction
nyrtzi
sleepsleep wrote:

i tried several distros, and when you try to stick to one distro, you end up with a problem inside this distro that didn't appear in another distro, one switch, then another problem comes up in that distro but not appear in previous distro.

maybe i got higher expectation or i probably got some idea how things should work,

you mind to share me what distro you are using atm?


Sounds familiar. I first used Redhat. Then Debian for a while. After that I used SuSE for years. After that Gentoo. Then Ubuntu. Then CentOS. And nowadays I use Debian again.

No distro is perfect. I once thought I might try Fedora but the idea of having to reinstall my system every now and then is a big no-no. I have zero interest in reinstalling an operating system once I've put enough working into making it comfortable. Oh well. Maybe Fedora doesn't require that but they do recommend it. Upgrading between major versions of Ubuntu turned out to be a pain in the ass as well because of how many things broke. SuSE just somehow started feeling weird. With Gentoo I got tired of the package management and compiling code all the time. Debian works well enough for me, there are a lot of different kinds of software packages available easily and with Debian I don't need to reinstall anything. I just slap Debian on a machine and then just dist-upgrade between major versions of the OS just like I do normal updates. It's working well enough for me at the moment.

The next distro I might want to try next is a Hardened Linux From Scratch by building a myself a minimal system with extra emphasis on security (proper mandatory access controls instead of just the normal discretionary access controls). Unless I can modify my Debian to do that in order to save myself the trouble of doing extra work.

Do you have some practical example in mind of a problem that has caused you to switch distros?
Post 29 Oct 2013, 06:34
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8867
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
i think the reason of switch is the feeling of helplessness,
the moment you got no "how to" to deal with the occurred situation, the error message, the warning message, when in reality, the whole thing should be made easy, simple, and straight forward.

google forum after forum, fix, patch for distro A when you are using distro B,
the clueless situation they let you feel, no reason why it is there and should be deal in specific way,

the gigantic size in your drive that you got no idea why everything should be there when you only want simple OS that could browse online,

the catchy eyecandy that made into main distro, when you only want something like icewm, but the whole candy are inside your system.

the complexity that people try and successfully bring into each distro, like a totally corrupted system.

/home/username
/lib
/os
/config
/temp
/program
/encrypt
/jail

i guess the main reason is i already got some sort of ideas how things should be managed in my own perspective, and seeing all those weird naming, category, etc really de-motivate me.
Post 29 Oct 2013, 14:00
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
nyrtzi



Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 192
Location: Off the scale in the third direction
nyrtzi
@sleepsleep

Yes, things often are more complicated and bloated than they should be. And there are many bad reasons for that as you know.

That is why I stick to a minimal "as standard as possible" install of Debian with Fluxbox, Konsole, Thunderbird, Firefox, Chromium, vim and some other (mainly command line) utilities.

I try to keep my installation of Debian as "out of the box / fresh install" kind of clean and standard (Debian standards, Linux Standard Base standards, POSIX standards, etc.) as possible with my personal customization going mainly into my shell profile and nice and clean little config files which can be easily symlinked to the place they need to be at from a Mercurial repository.

I don't remember encountering the kind of problems you describe for a long time. I assume I might if I were to use a less stable and not as well tested distro.
Post 29 Oct 2013, 14:54
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8867
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
@nyrtzi,
sorry for late reply,
i guess one day in this lifetime, i will build my own os, =) or distro,...
btw,
something cool being done here,

Darwin/ARM running on a Nokia N900
http://winocm.com/projects/research/2013/11/22/milestone-one/

Quote:

Know that it doesn’t just run on that, it also runs on:

    ARM RealView Emulation Baseboard (ARMPBA8_ALT)

    ARM RealView Platform Baseboard for Cortex-A8 (ARMPBA8)

    Texas Instruments OMAP3530 (BeagleBoard/BeagleBoard xM) (OMAP3530)

    Texas Instruments OMAP3430 (Nokia N900) (OMAP3430_RX51)

    Texas Instruments AM335x (BeagleBone/BeagleBone Black) (OMAP335X)

    Apple A4 (iPhone 4, iPod touch 4G, iPhone 4 CDMA, iPhone 4 GSM revA, iPad 1, Apple TV 2) (S5L8930X)

    iPhone 3GS (S5L8920X)

    iPod touch 3G (S5L8922X)
Post 23 Nov 2013, 11:50
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

< Last Thread | Next Thread >
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Copyright © 1999-2020, Tomasz Grysztar.

Powered by rwasa.