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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Post 02 Jan 2008, 00:30
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
I hate the BS that the press do. They assume the reader is either stupid or not interested in the details
Quote:
The proof in question is too complex to explain here...
Post 02 Jan 2008, 01:58
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kohlrak



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kohlrak
No more giving back...


Last edited by kohlrak on 07 Aug 2008, 15:00; edited 1 time in total
Post 02 Jan 2008, 02:30
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bitRAKE



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bitRAKE
There are several paths of discovery from the wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_Palimpsest
Post 02 Jan 2008, 02:39
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kohlrak



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kohlrak
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Last edited by kohlrak on 07 Aug 2008, 14:59; edited 1 time in total
Post 02 Jan 2008, 02:41
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
birRAKE: Thanks, I did of course seek other avenues of information.

kohlrak: I don't think the press deliberately make things up (except April 1st). It is more a matter of being too lazy to make sure the facts are correct and/or assume the reader is too lazy/stupid to comprehend details.

It's the "dumb it down" era of human existence.
Post 02 Jan 2008, 02:56
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kohlrak



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kohlrak
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Last edited by kohlrak on 07 Aug 2008, 14:59; edited 1 time in total
Post 02 Jan 2008, 03:03
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bitRAKE



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bitRAKE
It's just a difference of goals. The truely interested will always seek deeper understanding - either thru other resources or personal contemplation. News doesn't have a goal to educate the public, and it would seem the goal of schools have veered away from really educating the public - budgets and security are greater concerns (scary).

When I was in school twice as much work was done outside my studies as required - just a genuine thirst for understanding. One of my fondest memories is bring material to my biology teacher to question what she was teaching us, and she asked me not to confuse the other students and if she would borrow the book. I asked my calculus teacher what tensors were and he said he couldn't teach them to me, but he had some books I could borrow.

Most people would rather not understand how something works, how food is grown, etc. I'd rather not know the names - what good does it do to know what country or person did something. And that goes for social trends, too - like I care what color tennis ratchet cool/hot this year. Imagine how in the dark the general public would be without the press - they have their place, but I don't recommend it to my friends.


Last edited by bitRAKE on 02 Jan 2008, 04:03; edited 1 time in total
Post 02 Jan 2008, 03:59
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kohlrak



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kohlrak
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Last edited by kohlrak on 07 Aug 2008, 14:58; edited 1 time in total
Post 02 Jan 2008, 04:02
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
vid wrote:
...sad story...
Sorry, I cannot understand. Why is it "sad" to learn that the Greeks understood Calculus, prior to its elaboration by Leibniz and Newton?
Here's my point:
Yes, Archimedes discovered the calculus, or at least, one of the fundamental premises underlying it. Ok, fine, now where was he living? In Alexandria, Egypt. When?:
287-212 BCE. Who else was living in Alexandria, in that same era?
Aristarchus 310-250 BCE
Eratosthenes 276-194 BCE
What do those two guys have in common:
both head librarians at the most important library of the world.
Both were mathematicians.
Both were interested in astronomy, as was Archimedes' father.
So, now for some conjecture: I claim that the original mathematics and astronomy which we attribute to these three brilliant Greeks, may have been invented EVEN earlier, by unknown authors, whose works were stored in the famous library, access to which, both Eratosthenes and Aristarchus enjoyed, by virtue of their supervisory functions at the library. My guess: about 260 BCE, Alexandria must have been a fantastic intellectual center. All three of those giants living there, and working on extraordinary theoretical discoveries. What a shame, we have so little information about their accomplishments.
Sad? Why sad, vid? I am sad too, but not for the belated acknowledgement that Archimedes understood one of the fundamental concepts of calculus: the equality of two infinitely large sets. Are you suggesting that either Newton or Leibniz or both had access to some of Archimedes' writings, and plagiarized them, as Copernicus plagiarized Aristarchus' discovery of heliocentrism?
That would be an interesting point of research. Which manuscripts from the library at Cambridge were studied by Newton, during those several years he lived alone in that cottage? Which manuscripts did the more gregarious Leibniz encounter in museums of London, Amsterdam and the many other cities he visited? Hmm. Wow. There's a new thought, for the new year! Leibniz or Newton as plagiarists of Archimedes? I guess that prospect could induce sadness. Having waited infinitely long for the FASM Brno intellectual gathering of the giants' (and one pygmy)...., I can identify with that sentiment.
Wink
Post 02 Jan 2008, 11:51
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
sad because some asshole used such scroll to write his ramble there... how many such scrolls did we lost this way?
Post 02 Jan 2008, 13:01
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pelaillo
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pelaillo
Sorry Tom, Archimedes were living in Syracuse (Sicily) and never wanted to leave his birthplace even during the war (invasion is more appropriate). Then he was killed by a roman soldier, totally unaware of the magnicide he was committing.
Post 02 Jan 2008, 13:12
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pelaillo
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pelaillo
Quote:

sad because some asshole used such scroll to write his ramble there... how many such scrolls did we lost this way?

Or perhaps this man saved the text for future generations because otherwise it could have been burned during the obscurantism as happened with almost all greek books (besides Aristoteles' ones) that were surviving until then.
Post 02 Jan 2008, 13:28
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
Or perhaps this man saved the text for future generations because otherwise it could have been burned during the obscurantism as happened with almost all greek books (besides Aristoteles' ones) that were surviving until then.

that's even more sad story.

but you're right, it's funny that by degrading this document, he maybe saved it...
Post 02 Jan 2008, 13:56
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tom tobias



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tom tobias
pelaillo wrote:
...Archimedes were living in Syracuse (Sicily)...
Yes, of course you are absolutely correct, however, while he may have WANTED to not leave Syracuse, he did do so. He lived for several years in Alexandria, gaining his formative education there. I do not know how long he remained in Alexandria, nor do I know when he returned to Sicily. I am guessing that he was there for a decade, age 15-25. That is mere conjecture on my part, unsupported by any reference.
Post 02 Jan 2008, 20:02
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