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Kinex



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 32
Kinex
Does anybody know how far copyright can go in software. The point is that there are many many applications out there and using windows API to create windows dialogs buttons and all the other stuff does make them look the same in some way. I am writing a compiler and I liked the .NET IDE when I saw it first so I decided to go into this direction of design. Now It really resulted in a copy of the IDE more or less with own influences. Do you think Microsoft can sue me for that?? I was thinking of this when I was thinking about releasing this programm. Do you think I get in any trouble with this? Rolling Eyes

I attached a screenshot so you can see what I mean.

I remember asking something like this before here but now it is a complete IDE Shocked

Maybe some lawyer is arround here Smile

Regards


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Last edited by Kinex on 01 Dec 2007, 21:41; edited 1 time in total
Post 25 Nov 2007, 18:07
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
visual studio IDE is .NET app?
Post 25 Nov 2007, 18:17
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2914
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
That is pretty. Smile

I think if you make much money off it, or influence their 'image' then they will sue you - copyright or not they will have much money behind their argument. Be careful especially what you name it!
Post 25 Nov 2007, 18:21
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Picnic



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: behind the arc
Picnic
hi Kinex
i run once the linley compiler, about a year ago, a mixed basic/c like language i remember. Is the project back to life?
btw the ide looks good.
Post 25 Nov 2007, 18:55
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Kinex



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 32
Kinex
Sorry Visual Studio IDE.

Thanks, yes, that's true.. you are right.. copyright or not. Even If I wouldn't get sued they have enough money to send some guys to me, beating me up Laughing

Well I don't have the intention to sell it, just a free time project for now.

Thimis, yes I first wrote Linley but dropped it as you may have noticed.. there were some people who made some weird things with the source code and so on... but this doesn't belong here. This is new compiler written from scratch, and syntax is BASIC.

I just thought of this also as a general question. isn't it normal today that programmers steal or let's say getting "inspired" from other softwares UI (or UI designers acutally i wouldn't say this belongs to programmers). I think it would be very interesting to know how far you can go. Because I think applications are all based on Windows, Windows API and Microsoft is releasing big programming languages. So why shouldn't you be free to do what you want if you can accomplish it.

Well I guess I will see what happens Smile

Thanks.
Post 25 Nov 2007, 19:24
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
new compilers are generally a bad idea. one of MOST important feature of compiler is how good it is established.
Post 25 Nov 2007, 19:33
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Kinex



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 32
Kinex
Yes vid, I know and you are right. But I actually learned alot from writing it. My intention was never to make up a new superb language, its just for educational purposes. You will learn about assembler, file formats, and will improve your programming skills when starting such a project. And it was open source so other people could also learn from it.
Post 25 Nov 2007, 19:42
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Then, you chose perfectly, implementing language will probably teach you shitload of skills. Bit similar to my development of FASMLIB Wink
Post 25 Nov 2007, 19:53
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2914
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
Just run with it Kinex - if you get enough momentum copyright will not matter, nor money. I believe the same as you do - windows is very pervasive, so much so that I thought Microsoft might become a public utility like the phone company. I think the DOJ straighten Billy boy out though.
Post 25 Nov 2007, 20:01
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Kinex



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 32
Kinex
Yes, FASMLIB is astonishing work Smile
Well i'll let you all know when I release it and get into some trouble or something similar. I'll see.

Thanks for all replies and help.

Regards,
Kinex
Post 26 Nov 2007, 13:55
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
look nice kinex Wink
keep up the good work!
Post 26 Nov 2007, 18:30
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Raedwulf



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: United Kingdom
Raedwulf
Hi Kinex... long time no see Wink

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Raedwulf
Post 30 Nov 2007, 10:41
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
on a sidenote about copyright: anyone here know how to "add" some copyright to some code? because then someone might steal it and claim it's theirs. Problem is, they might not make it open-source and if I try to make it will claim i copied their code when in fact it's the other way around Sad
Post 01 Dec 2007, 13:20
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Not to mention, with the great wonderful compiler, most code is generated the same. What if microsoft copywrited the add instruction!? o.o
Post 01 Dec 2007, 13:31
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4240
Location: 2018
edfed
just simply don't care about.
if someone steal your asm code, the thing to do is to make a copy of your code, post it to yourself, post stamp date will show that it is your code since the date on the letter.

yeahhh.

and then you can use it for fucking the stealer, you need to see a lawer that will defend you against the stealer.

you can easily prove it's your because nobody knows better your code than you.

by posting your code in fasm forum, date and time will show you are the first to write this.
it's just a good sense question. the judge will see that you're honest if you prove with these things it's your code.
no?
or judges don't have any good sense. and only obey to money and fuckin law.

by making a topic in sourceforce, you protect your code, i think.
Post 01 Dec 2007, 14:05
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Never truely protected though. Will anything on the internet be applicable evidence to prove your innocence? Fact is, copywrites and patents are BS. You're out to fend for yourself against these. Maybe self modifying code will be a good place to start. Now, it might be slow (i havn't tried it myself) in the beginning, but i'm not sure that it'll be slow after you start the pipeline again. Startups are always slow so it's ok to lag your startups. Even then they'll steal it if they're willing to do the calculations, but if they're not, then you have it made. Even then you're not going to look at every game to see if that guy making another game or something uses your special algorithems and formatting to speed up their code. Plus, how are you going to prove that it's your code and they just didn't happen to come up with it themselves, too, completely un-aware of your project? Copywriting code is BS, but if you're that worried about some one becomming famous for your algories, just make them do alot of work and have several well placed self code modifications to encrypt it. Unless they realize that your code is worth stealing to begin with, they won't bother because they'd have to do alot of work just to get to it.
Post 01 Dec 2007, 14:15
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
my problem is not whether they will use my code/algorithms or not. my problem is whether they will restrict me or anyone else to use them (because after they steal it, they 'copyright' it as being theirs). that is why i want some kind of copyright/protection.
Post 01 Dec 2007, 15:09
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4240
Location: 2018
edfed
just use your code as you want, even if a stealer as copyrighted it.

in frensh, c'est pas un voleur qui va faire sa loi. et puis il suffit de faire ce que j'ai ecrit plus haut pour se defendre le jour venu.

i really dislike this fact of steal and copyright.
for exemple, copyrighting some basic algorythm or file types is so bad.
gif, the really basic graphic animation file type, anyone can invent it.
but gif is copyrighted.
just imagine the txt or asm extension, or some mathematic algorythms to be copyrighted!!
it's really idiot. but it's the case for .gif and others very basic file type.

open source GPL is the best solution for the moment, or don't code anything, therefore, nobody would steal your work.
Post 01 Dec 2007, 15:38
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
gif is not so basic as you may thing. It uses Lempel-Ziv-Welch encoding.
Post 01 Dec 2007, 16:18
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4240
Location: 2018
edfed
ok, but this Lempel-Ziv-Welch is not a owner algorythm.
it is the natural human way to do that.
ok, one man have found this before me, but is it a reason to make me a stealer if i concept a code that is the same.
who didn't have the idea to make this algorythm without knowing it existence?

and as they say in the link you give us, it's an universal algorythm, so it's a natural algorythm.

simple examples are thales and pythagore theorems. they are not copyrighted.
they are the basis of geometry.
if thales didn't find it, an other man forcelly find it.
like gauss. he found some funny geometric algorythms and formulas. but in fact, all these exist since the universe creation.

the informatics world needs to change a lot.
ok, i've made the fastest line algorythm, but in fact, this algorythm is just a discover. not an invention. why restricting it's use? am i a bad guy? no. i am for the unity, the freedom etc..

ok, we need to eat, to buy a house etc... but not with restricting rights on universal and basic algorythm.

algorythm are not invention, only discovers. like indians discovers the 0 number, they didn't invent it. just discover.

after there are the systems and programs, here we can speak about invention, because it come from the creativity of one or more (wo)mans. a painting is an invention, not the color.

it's like making copyright on add instruction or C60 molecule (footballene). there are no invention, just discovers.

invention is there when it's a big system.
in music industry it's the same problem.
they copyright basic melodies.

human being is (frensh) très con. vraiment très con.
Post 01 Dec 2007, 18:49
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