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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20071129/D8T7GGSO4.html
In my opinion, Ms. Gillian Gibbons, instructor of seven year old children in Sudan, was sentenced today to jail, NOT for "inciting religious hatred", but for the threat she posed to islam, by permitting her little children to learn about democracy, offering them the opportunity to vote on a name for the class mascot. The jews, christians, and muslims abhor the notion of RATIONAL thought, preferring instead to follow centuries, indeed, millenia old traditions, based upon superstitions, delusions, and greed. The real conflict is not between christians or jews versus muslims, but between thinking, rational people, versus "faith based" behaviour.
Crying or Very sad
Post 29 Nov 2007, 19:01
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
Yeah, it's sad. Sad

On rationality vs. faith: Interesting thing to note is that rational people are usually pretty much united: there is single rational truth vs. thousands "believed" truths.
Post 29 Nov 2007, 19:48
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
it's sad and fully uncompatible with 2007 mentality.
one more time, islam show to humanity it's shitty fucking middle age common mentality.

remember the inquisition. oh they cannot remember, they are in late.
the muslim trust is young. and like a baby, usa wants to make their education.

happily, nowadays, religion don't have the full power of the past. not the case of islam.

god is a sex machine.
Post 29 Nov 2007, 21:17
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Quote:
god is a sex machine

man...

Laughing
Post 30 Nov 2007, 00:01
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
do you know why muslim woman have a shador?

to avoid temptation.
in fact hardcore muslim are sex addict and don't accept it.
for them, woman are sexual object. and to hide this, they pray and say that we (occidental) are bad.
Post 30 Nov 2007, 00:19
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

it's sad and fully uncompatible with 2007 mentality.


HAA! It's completely consistent with 2007 mentality.

In New Zealand many different christian based groups bring their religious hatred onto my property, tell me I'm a sinner for not following their belief, wave their book of hatred with the dagger of death on it's cover in my face and I have no rights what so ever to prosecute them.

Every easter they get to close down all shops so I can't even buy needed essentials. Where do they get their nerve!

December 25 approaches and they will be everywhere chanting their hatred and I have no rights at all to stop them.


Quote:

one more time, islam show to humanity it's shitty fucking middle age common mentality.


It's exactly this type of religious intolerance that promotes christianity...... so stop it!!!!!!


Quote:

On rationality vs. faith: Interesting thing to note is that rational people are usually pretty much united: there is single rational truth vs. thousands "believed" truths.



Problem is, when the "single rational truth" label gets attached to things as ridiculous as the theory of global warming, the actual truth gets thown out the door and faith takes over. Hence I suspect rational people are actually few and far between Sad
Post 30 Nov 2007, 00:36
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rhyno_dagreat



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 487
Location: Maryland, Unol Daleithiau
rhyno_dagreat
I have not a problem with you all stating your beliefs in here, but when you start insulting what I believe that does become a problem. I am a Christian, and it's your choice to believe what you want. Just don't tread over my beliefs in the process.

That's rational thinking for you.
Post 30 Nov 2007, 01:13
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vid
Verbosity in development


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Posts: 7105
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vid
Quote:
in fact hardcore muslim are sex addict and don't accept it.
for them, woman are sexual object. and to hide this, they pray and say that we (occidental) are bad.

not at all different from christian views 200-2000 years ago. Only thing is that christians have lowered in this sex-franticism lately, and Islam still didn't. 1 2 3

Quote:
Problem is, when the "single rational truth" label gets attached to things as ridiculous as the theory of global warming, the actual truth gets thown out the door and faith takes over. Hence I suspect rational people are actually few and far between

Yes, everyone likes to support his cause by placing "rationality" stamp over it. You need to get some practice to filter our what's real and what isn't. Most important is to be prepared to change your opinion if evidence shows your old opinion was wrong, and to do it gladly, because you are bit closer to truth.

As for global warming, got any serious inidications it isn't true? I didn't study it into any depth, but so far i got impression that occurence of global warming is pretty much proved, only questionable thing is whether / to how much extent it is caused by human activity.
Post 30 Nov 2007, 01:54
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
religion and faith are not the same thing.
like politic and everydays life.

religion is the power of the faith.
politic is the faith of the power.

so sorry.
i didn't want to insult your faith.
i'm just a poor little faithless boy, living on earth, a little planet in teh solar system, that is in perphery of the milky way galaxy, who goes to cygnus galaxy.

something like 60Kg, 1.83meters, brown haired, white skin, big dick, and long fingers typing this words on a Aopen MX-3L motherboard, with a GEFORCE2 4OOmx, a SB pci 128, an optical mouse.
listening some music with my hand made amplifier and the omnibook XE3.

all these PCs are with WIN98.

and one day, win98 will disappear to leave the place for a new, revolutionary, fully free, fully hand made Operating System.

MS is the religion like OS, with it's own inquisitor, it's own trust public.

religion is only one dot of the same object.
the POWER.
here, religion is not faith.
faith is not rteligion.
i make the separation between faith and religion.
and christianism is the faith on a side, and religion on the other side.
religion is the power. PAPE, RABBIN, religion kings etc...
faith is your individual feeling. prayer, people, believers, you
don't confuse and melt these two words. they are very different.

happy soon new year.
hope that it will show us beautifull things
Post 30 Nov 2007, 02:00
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
Quote:
I have not a problem with you all stating your beliefs in here, but when you start insulting what I believe that does become a problem. I am a Christian, and it's your choice to believe what you want. Just don't tread over my beliefs in the process.

I agree that pointless insulting is ... pointless, and doesn't belong to good manners. But serious questioning one's faith / ideology / religion IS important, and should be done. Even if someone feels insulted by questioning it and by pointing out ridiculousities of his beliefs. I don't see abolutely no reason why just the religion, of all sensitive stuff, should have some taboo over questioning it, some special protection.

Truth has one very nice attribute that can distinguish it from non-truth. Truth withstands any argument. Because of that, promoters of truth encourage arguments, while promoters of things which are not truth try to stay away from (at least some) arguments, because these would demonstrate what is truth. So if you see someone saying "don't read others' opinions", or "don't dare to question this", etc. it is a important sign that his stance won't stand such questioning. Unfortunatelly, i can see latter in every single religion I ever came to contact with, critical thinking about every religion by discouraged by it. If it was truth, there would be no reason to discourage it, opposite, they should encourage people to think critically and PROVE that their religion is based on truth. 1 2

Oh yeah, and there is area of unprovable faith (like "god created world in beginning and didn't do anything after that"), that is often used to argue that faith can't be disproven. But i have never ever seen religion which would limit itself only to things that can't be disproven, all religions i know claim many testable things.


Last edited by vid on 30 Nov 2007, 02:51; edited 1 time in total
Post 30 Nov 2007, 02:19
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
rhyno_dagreat wrote:

when you start insulting what I believe that does become a problem


Your precious religion shits all over my beliefs, so please spare me your crocodile tears!!!!



vid wrote:

As for global warming, got any serious inidications it isn't true?


No!


vid wrote:

but so far i got impression that occurence of global warming is pretty much proved


Great, then you'll be able to show me this proof.

Remember though, rational thinking proof only. For example, polar bears can swim because they have evolved over time to swim to their prey. I don't want to hear it's a recent event occurring because the ice is melting.


Quote:

only questionable thing is whether / to how much extent it is caused by human activity.


Here's where I'm am absolutely certain. Humans have not caused anything ..... except for the destruction of wildlife habitats bringing the extinction/near extinction of many species .... but of cause given that loco and I were the only two who said anything about the japanese whaling ships heading to the southern oceans to kill whales, I guess crying about someone insulting their precious religion is more important to people than saving huge whales Sad
Post 30 Nov 2007, 02:26
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rhyno_dagreat



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 487
Location: Maryland, Unol Daleithiau
rhyno_dagreat
MichaelH wrote:
rhyno_dagreat wrote:

when you start insulting what I believe that does become a problem


Your precious religion shits all over my beliefs, so please spare me your crocodile tears!!!!


And what is/are your belief(s), Michael?
Post 30 Nov 2007, 02:47
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
something offtopic.
mrs Gillian Gibbons, looks like Gillina anderson, actrees in xfiles.
truth is out there. he he !
Post 30 Nov 2007, 02:58
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

Especially first link has few examples of how big companies push dollars into denying even climate change itself, not just it's human source.


Come on vid, I asked for proof, not bias opinion.


rhyno_dagreat wrote:

And what is/are your belief(s), Michael?


Sorry, my belief does not permit me to share my belief Wink

However ponder this, imagine if all religions followed this idea...... would there still be the endless religious wars that plague this planet?

My opinion on this subject is that the riligous wars would still continue. The followers of my idea would come to believe my idea is the one and only true belief (gods word) and go about forcing that belief on others ..... what is your opinion on this?
Post 30 Nov 2007, 05:28
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rhyno_dagreat



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 487
Location: Maryland, Unol Daleithiau
rhyno_dagreat
MichaelH wrote:

rhyno_dagreat wrote:

And what is/are your belief(s), Michael?


Sorry, my belief does not permit me to share my belief Wink

However ponder this, imagine if all religions followed this idea...... would there still be the endless religious wars that plague this planet?

My opinion on this subject is that the riligous wars would still continue. The followers of my idea would come to believe my idea is the one and only true belief (gods word) and go about forcing that belief on others ..... what is your opinion on this?


I can't speak for everyone's set of beliefs, but in Christianity we are to follow Christ and live by His example. In the past, religion (note: a difference between religion and beliefs) has done what you have stated (in the crusades and such), despite the fact that Jesus didn't say "go out and kill multitudes in my name", but instead said the opposite. It was man who screwed up there, so don't blame the belief for what perverse things humans, and moreso humans who strive for power, do.
Post 30 Nov 2007, 05:44
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

so don't blame the belief for what perverse things humans, and moreso humans who strive for power, do.


Oh I see, the time honoured christian proclamation, it's not the christian belief, it's humans why we christian do despicable evil on earth.

Facts indicate that the christian\muslim belief that it is the one truth, the christian\muslim god is the one true god and the direct aggressive proclaiming of such, is directly responsible for most wars, destruction and human suffering. So don't try to convince me it's not your jesus cult bla bla bla (christian or muslim) that is the problem cause it really really really is the problem! Thinking, rational people can clearly see this, so let me just reassert the basis of this thread as stated by tom -

Quote:

The real conflict is not between christians or jews versus muslims, but between thinking, rational people, versus "faith based" behaviour.
Post 30 Nov 2007, 08:16
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roboman



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 122
Location: USA
roboman
The school teacher went there knowing what the area was like and the sort of things that might happen there. I do feel sorry for her, but the people there acted as they always have to what she did. She broke the rules of the place she was living. We may feel they aren't right, so don't go there. I have no problem with fanatics having a place where they can be what they wish to be. If they want to leave that place and force others to follow their faith I have no problem with them being killed or locked up for ever and if the place they came from supports then forcing others, I have no problem seeing that place get wiped out. Religion at it's extreme is bad, business at it's extreme is bad, even logic / science at it's extreme is bad. At it's best, religion gives a number of people a sense of peace and a uniform set of moral ways to act with others to people who are lacking that. Some decry it as a crutch, like that's a bad thing. For some one with a broken leg or with a problem they can't work out on their own, it's a good thing. I have no problem with the fanatics of any ilk, as long as they are willing to not try to impose it on others.
Post 30 Nov 2007, 15:58
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Good post roboman

Quote:

At it's best, religion gives a number of people a sense of peace


Indeed this is true. So how do we go about explaining to the religions that aggressively push their ideology on others that they are wrong for doing this.

For example, someone has a loved one who has passed away and takes comfort in their belief only to have a christian (or other religion) come to their door waving a book of hate in their face and suggesting only those who follow their belief will earn eternal peace. It's a barbaric thing to do but try to explain that to that person standing at your door waving their book of hate in your face, it's impossible. This kind of thoughtless act is where angry towards beliefs other than one own belief stems from , and rightly so. So it's up to every religion (especially the jesus cult ones as they are very aggressive) to realise their religion is for them only and once they step outside and push their religion onto others, their religion turns from a faith based on love into one based on hate!



vid wrote:

What else proof you need?


Come on vid, you said you have proof but all I've got from you so far are replies of a fanatical cult follower. Show me the science. For instance, what's the atomic weight of C02? Why would I ask you such a question?????? I want only rational thinking replies or a retraction of your statement that you have proof.

Quote:

Can you show me some unbiased meteorological organizations that didn't measure any recent rapid growth of average temperature?


No. I can show you lots of bias data both ways though. I wish I could show you unbiased data for all things including the value of religion but such unbias data is mostly not available. Hence the theme of this thread, rational thinking versus "faith based" behaviour.
Post 30 Nov 2007, 22:12
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
no comment
Post 30 Nov 2007, 23:24
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
I read the title and i just had to read the main posts and a few following replies. I'm amused how, yet again, a simple issue has been turned into such propoganda. A person goes to jail for making a small group angry (enough to appear as a large group) by allowing kids name a teddy bear a certain name. The focus was the naming of a teddy. Holy crap, if i was a muslim i'd be honored that they named the teddy after a profit of mine. The kids obviously have enough love and/or respect for the name to elect that to be the name of the teddybear, what's the problem? In my opinion, this isn't about religion, but a reaction to something interpreted a certain way by a certain group of people (of an indeffinate size, and most likely have been subjected to propoganda since that's how things are spread these days) and someone lost their head. If you ask me, this isn't even news worthy until it happens more than once. Stuff happens. Pedofiles get released from jail every day in many countries. Murderers get out. Pseudo-science does worse to religions around the world and everyone gets off scott free for that. Clearly some one had a brain fart. Not worth the attention. Yes, justice wasn't carried out, but that happens all the time. We don't need to hear this. I mean common, how many of us does this affect? Aside from ticking you off, does this affect any of us?

They feed us this garbage they call news because we like to hear it to argue about it. I am always amazed how this place can inhale garbage and use it to feed the fire in their hearts to discuss the same points in a new post just so they can pretend they're influencing some one. I've realized that here seldom anyone really influences the point of view of anyone else, it just seems that we teach each other how to argue better and teach each other new things by arguing the same point with newer evidence that pertains to the topic. Same ideas, just different topic and different ways of saying it. Don't believe me? Then sit out an argument some time and come in posts later without reading the posts in-between. Sit out of another argument, and do the same. Dosn't matter where you start in an argument here, you can just jump in wherever and fire away.
Post 01 Dec 2007, 01:52
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