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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
howard, time second-time launches of IE and FF... IE second-time launches is a slight bit faster than first-time launch, which indicates that not all IE components are loaded at system startup time. (I bet common controls are considered as "IE components" and thus "part of the cheat").

Then look at FF first- and second-time loads. Second-time loads fore firefox are faster than first-time loads (filesystem cache for the win), but they are still measurably slower than IE.

Somebody should profile firefox startup and fix the slowness. From filemon, it seems like it keeps re-querying the same files, that might account for some of it. I have a hunch that all the XUL stuff takes some time too.

It's funny looking at IE filemon trace in comparison - the log is a lot more spammy, but still IE comes up so much faster.

Oh yeah, another thing: firefox seems to become increasingly slower at opening new tabs when you have a whole bunch of them open - weird.
Post 21 Nov 2007, 12:44
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Have you seen the Firefox speed up settings? You can google for those but they make a significant difference. FFs standard settings are too general out of the box. If you can't find them, I'll get the link. Do NOT use 'FasterFox' extension.
Post 21 Nov 2007, 14:54
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
FasterFox isn't the problem many people say it is. The Speed Up settings are wrt. server connections etc., not the slowness that's nagging me: startup time.
Post 21 Nov 2007, 14:58
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hckr83



Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 86
Location: usa
hckr83
I really don't see why anyone decides things on a startup speed of about 3 seconds to 2.5 seconds...lol
the only bad thing with firefox I notice is that it has a really bad memory leak problem...I think that actually may even be fixed, so who knows...
I also like Firefox's themes you can have...really though, I say get a few essential addons, and it's the best browser ever....
Post 21 Nov 2007, 15:59
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
hckr83 wrote:

the only bad thing with firefox I notice is that it has a really bad memory leak problem...I think that actually may even be fixed, so who knows...
This is another myth. There are some Firefox extensions created by outside parties that do have memory leak problems, such as 'fasterfox' mentioned above, but these are not part of the browser itself and, like I said, created by outside parties and not Mozilla/Firefox.
Post 21 Nov 2007, 16:17
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
hckr83: startup speed is an issue if you don't always have your browser running, and it takes more than a second from you click a link in your email app until the browser opens. It just feels too sluggish, and there's no excuse for it.

drhowarddrfine: I doubt that FasterFox has memory leak problems, it's simply a GUI for configuring internal settings (ie., anything fasterfox can do can be tweaked via about:config) - in other words, if "fasterfox introduces leaks", it's because there's leaks in firefox.
Post 21 Nov 2007, 16:57
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
f0dder wrote:
It just feels too sluggish, and there's no excuse for it.
As stated above, it's because FF can't have the necessary components open that IE can because it's not built into the OS.
Quote:
I doubt that FasterFox has memory leak problems... if "fasterfox introduces leaks", it's because there's leaks in firefox.
Totally false. Fasterfox is listed by Mozilla on their web site among the extensions known to have leaks. I also gave you a link above about the myth of Firefox leaks.


Last edited by drhowarddrfine on 22 Nov 2007, 22:39; edited 1 time in total
Post 22 Nov 2007, 15:11
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
Here's the link for problematic extensions. Fasterfox causes problems but is not a memory leak as I thought. But this link does list the extensions that do have leaks.
Post 22 Nov 2007, 15:14
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Reducing Firefox memory usage
Quote:
For most users, Firefox doesn't use an abnormally large amount of memory.

Firefox caches objects for future use. In addition, memory becomes fragmented as memory is repeatedly allocated and deallocated.[1] This general increase is normal.

Normal Firefox memory usage reported by Windows might be as high as 100-150 MB. These numbers will vary because Firefox is configured by default to use more memory on systems that have more memory available and less on systems with less.

Quote:
The most common memory leaks appear to be fixed in Firefox 2.
Post 22 Nov 2007, 15:19
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
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LocoDelAssembly
drhowarddrfine, but your link says that "Firefox 1.5 leaks more memory than previous versions" is a myth, but, why it must be read as "Firefox has no memory leaks"? I think that your reference is does not demystify the memory leaks myth (if it is really a myth), just says that a given version is not worth than another.
Post 22 Nov 2007, 15:23
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
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Location: Denmark
f0dder
drhowarddrfine wrote:
Here's the link for problematic extensions. Fasterfox causes problems but is not a memory leak as I thought. But this link does list the extensions that do have leaks.


And what that list says about FasterFox is just the same-old. All it does is change internal firefox settings that you can get at with about:config, and doesn't restore old settings when uninstalled. That there's problems with FasterFox is a scare campaign ran by people scared shitless about the bandwidth increase from prefetching... which is a good thing for end-users, because of faster page loads (since it's done in the background ahead of time - prefetching, you know).

_________________
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Post 22 Nov 2007, 17:00
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
LocoDelAssembly wrote:
drhowarddrfine, but your link says that "Firefox 1.5 leaks more memory than previous versions" is a myth, but, why it must be read as "Firefox has no memory leaks"? I think that your reference is does not demystify the memory leaks myth (if it is really a myth), just says that a given version is not worth than another.
Because you are supposed to read further down to where more current information is. Firefox is at 2.0.0.9 right now and version 3.0 is due out soon.
Post 22 Nov 2007, 19:34
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
Quote:
That there's problems with FasterFox is a scare campaign ran by people scared shitless about the bandwidth increase from prefetching...
I'm not following you. Firefox has no problems with people doing their own settings in about:config and, in fact, post how to speed things up using the same settings and more elsewhere on the site. So, I'm not following what you are trying to say.
Post 22 Nov 2007, 19:38
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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drhowarddrfine
You guys aren't web developers so you probably aren't familiar with these people or their sites but I thought you'd be interested.
IE is a cancer on the web
No, IE did not display that properly.
Internet Explorer vs the Standards
And there are tens, if not hundreds, of others.
Post 22 Nov 2007, 19:53
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
I haven't been saying that IE is a standards-compliant browser, and I am in fact using FireFox myself - but that doesn't change the fact that it's a slow pig.

As for FasterFox, again, all it does is changing the same settings that you can do yourself in about:config. <3 pipelining, prefetch and persistant connections - and a whole bunch of them.
Post 22 Nov 2007, 19:58
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
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Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Quote:

Because you are supposed to read further down to where more current information is. Firefox is at 2.0.0.9 right now and version 3.0 is due out soon.


Sorry, I can't find the part that says Firefox 2.0.0.9 is leak free. According to http://www.squarefree.com/2007/09/20/firefox-memory-usage-and-memory-leak-news/ (I first pressed the "actively working" link and then the link offering a newer blog entry to reach it), still leakages was found so and the entry is fairly new so I don't understand why we must trust that the "myth" is false even without any reference that explicitly says that there is no more.

Note that I'm not claiming that Firefox has leaks, I'm just saying that IMHO you are not providing any reference that says Firefox is leak free, only that newer versions has less leaks (where "less" is not a synonymous of zero).
Post 22 Nov 2007, 20:22
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
f0dder wrote:
I haven't been saying that IE is a standards-compliant browser,
I know. I just posted that out of general interest.
Quote:
I am in fact using FireFox myself - but that doesn't change the fact that it's a slow pig.
It isn't so I don't know why you are having that trouble.
Quote:

As for FasterFox, again, all it does is changing the same settings that you can do yourself in about:config.
Yes, I know, but, for whatever reason, it has the problems listed on that web page so you might as well set them yourself.
Post 22 Nov 2007, 22:35
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Quote:

Sorry, I can't find the part that says Firefox 2.0.0.9 is leak free.
Who said that? Not I. But I did point you to the link that says many think Firefox memory usage is due to leaks but it is not.
Quote:
However, this increased memory usage is actually due to pages being cached

I will also repeat what I quoted above:
Quote:
The most common memory leaks appear to be fixed in Firefox 2. [7] Firefox 3 will likely use even less memory than Firefox 2 due to more memory leak fixes and further efforts to reduce memory usage.

From your link:
Quote:
David Baron checked in a patch for the last bug that contributed to RLk on Linux, bringing the number of XPCOM objects leaked during this test to zero.
Robert has caught at least 6 distinct leak bugs using this script, 3 of which have already been fixed.
Steve England tested the top 500 web sites, finding two leaks.
Kris Zyp found a leak in the JavaScript Engine when using the watch method (bug 394709). Igor Bukanov responded quickly with not only a patch for the bug....

So, five leaks but, referring to the above quote again:
Quote:
The most common memory leaks appear to be fixed in Firefox 2.
Post 22 Nov 2007, 22:55
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Post 22 Nov 2007, 23:05
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