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Eugen



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 2
Location: Romania
Eugen
Yea, Tesla is a good example how capitalism encourages "creativity and progress", what a sad joke...

One day i was thinking about this issue, and i've got an idea, that i thought could help others understand what is wrong with 'capitalism'... but i've had no success so far Razz
Here's the idea:
Suppose one day an alien civilization lands its mothership on our soil.. in the front of the White House. We all would think that this civilization is advanced, and that we could be only some 'monkeys' to them. Now, what would you think of this civilization if they would say: Hey, we are from a big company, Pepsi! Pretty please buy from us, or we will wipe your civilization Twisted Evil . ESPECIALLY, you are NOT to buy from a ship that will come in the next day, thay are like us but from another company, CocaCola! They are evil!

Well.. i dont know about you, but i surely would look very disappointed about that kind of "advanced" civilisation, that still fights itself...
This is NOT how i see the future of humanity, it doesnt look evolved at all...

And exactly that will happen with the capitalism we all think is the top of the social evolution of mankind.

Another thought that crossed my mind:
One day i was thinking... WHY, are so many car types? Why would 100 companies would produce nearly the same exact car? Ok, i understand different cars for different uses, but for the same use, there are some many cars produced, all Renault, Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Chevrolet... all make the same car... I realized how many resources we waist absolutely STUPIDLY...
It should be only one sport car, family car, city car, offroad car... why 50 or 100? How many cars are produces just for nothing.... resources just waisted away... Same in any field... 100-1000 products doing the exact same thing... how many resources we waste... Only in the name of COMPETITION...
The funny part is... if you look at owners of the giants car industry (Renault, Ford etc.) you will see that they are very few.. and that they tend to be fewer and fewer.... which of course leads to monopoly... The same as communism, with a little twist, we all work for a single purpose, but that is not us, it's him, the owner.
Ironic.

So, the ultimate goal of capitalism is a twisted communism. Laughing
Post 04 Nov 2007, 01:53
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2915
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
If you want to read a F'ed up story about capitalism:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/about/erics_commentary.html

A company that did nothing has rights forever to steal the work of others!
Quote:
Another important consequence is that, as part of the settlement agreement, CRC Press will now be given permission to create editions of the printed book based on future snapshots of the website. As a result, CRC insisted that broad reproduction rights to all contributed material be secured. Furthermore, if we are not able to secure such rights, then Wolfram Research and I, at our own expense, must rewrite the entries in question from scratch for CRC to reproduce.
Post 04 Nov 2007, 17:58
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8902
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sleepsleep
was thinking, does a positive free society like mentioned by bogdanontanu will prevent human from busyness?
coz, maybe they will so busy helping others?
Post 04 Nov 2007, 23:34
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
in fact, we cannot accuse anybody!

why?

because it needs everything to make a world
and if you really want to be a non bull worker, you can
bull work is like fatality, the fear to handle ourselfs by our own hands
no?
Post 07 Nov 2007, 01:53
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bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
sleepsleep wrote:
was thinking, does a positive free society like mentioned by bogdanontanu will prevent human from busyness?
coz, maybe they will so busy helping others?


I am not sure what you mean by the word busyness...

If you mean beeing too much busy to help others and have no free time for your own individual existence and evolution then I do not see why this should happen.

First there is no hurry.

Imagine this: me an you in a cooperative. First we make you a house than we make me a house. Then we can rest for a while. We do not need to work like a bull every day to hurry up and finish the houses in extraordinary time.

Of course it will need to be more than 3 people...maybe 5 or 10 for a start.

Granted it will by a period of hard work at the start before we acquire what is needed (basic needs) for each one of us. But with each item we aquire we can be more and more relax. After a while our decisions will become driven more by intelligence and understanding rather than by "needs".

Then think to the diference in between sex and breeding. Say you have a number of womans.

If you have an Einstein in your group it would make sense to breed him with a miss Marrie Curie in your group. But then again for sex it would be more logical for Mr.Einstein to connect with miss Marilyn Monoroe and miss Marie Currie will most likely like to connect with Mr Brad Pitt for pleasure affairs.

We have done this for horses and other animals and resulted in better specimens but somehow we instinctively reject it for humans. The reason is written above Wink

The children resulted should belong to the group and not to a certain individual in the sense that they could choose to stay with whoever they like to not being subject to the usual slavery of children towards their parents.

So if there is a house and other needs for a new children are filled up... why should you be busy?

Besides in this scenario I was using normal human work force not automation and robots. Imagine an automated system that can be instructed to build a house to a certain location and then you come back in 3 months and you find the house build and ready Smile

Of course still far away in the future but it can be done it is not unimaginable.

There will be a special kind of inner joy even in performing this "duty" or "work" that comes from initial necessity because I would know and understand that the results of my work are not for the benefit of a single wise fat ass capitalist...

Instead I am performing work for the benefit of the human race as a whole and the target is clearly "not to work" anymore, ie not to perpetuate a state of necessity.

In time it will become more and more creation and joy and less and less "work".

In a way you will be busy: busy full filling your dreams, busy exploring the universe, busy exploring your inner self.

I do not advocate for helping others too much... individualism remember?

Once the starting up position is reached (equal material needs filled up for free) then you can "leave" each human with his own personal path for evolution. he/she might intersect with you for whatever reasons bt that is not a "duty" ... more like a pleasure.

_________________
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger,
more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage --
to move in the opposite direction."


Last edited by bogdanontanu on 07 Nov 2007, 04:52; edited 1 time in total
Post 07 Nov 2007, 04:16
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bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
edfed wrote:
in fact, we cannot accuse anybody!

why?

because it needs everything to make a world
and if you really want to be a non bull worker, you can
bull work is like fatality, the fear to handle ourselfs by our own hands
no?


Oh, but we can accuse the capitalists. You see they already own everything. The game is not fair.

If you are born in a rich family and play on the knees of vice president of US when you are 4 years old and play with the daughter of the owner of federal reserve in you 8 years. If you graduate from Harward or Oxford and your father already owns a few big banks... if you already know all of the very important people in the world and if they know you from your 4 years?

How hard do you think it would be to get a job, very well payed in such a way that whatever a pour boy with no education and with 2$ per hour can never ever defeat you?

Piece of cake I would say Wink

And the new wealth you acquire will be transfered to you children's and your children's children... and so on forever and ever.

They say that there is place at the "top". Of course there is: if you know how to smile when you kill, if you want to be obedient and use your creativity and intelligence for THEM... then maybe one day you will also be a master Wink

What can you really do?

You have needs, you have to pay a rent and hence you have to work in a job. By working at job you make somebody else more rich than you because of profit. By the rent you also make somebody else more rich than you.

Even IF you own a house... you still have to work because you have to pay: tax, electricity, food, goods (laptops), internet, heating, etc...

By each one of those you pay you are in fact making somebody else rich. Because they do own or control all of those important key positions.

We can not go back and live in the woods. This is not evolution. I do not advocate the return to primitive life. Besides they also own the forests.

Evolution is like this: more technology, more comfort, less work, more knowledge, physical immortality, more creativity, more exploration of the galaxy. The ability to technologically defeat a doomsday (asteroids or dark hole or Sun anomaly, or passing by planet, or a nova nearby)

But since we have to "work like a bull" for the rest of our life in order to make "somebody" else rich... our evolution is in a very very slow motion.

Our race evolution is more accidental because of some "idealists" like Tesla that fail to see the reality around them and dream of a better world rather than what it should be: a programmed, well understood, accepted, enjoyed and sustained effort.


What most people do is this: They work hard for a while and acquire some capital with "huge" sacrifices (and making others rich in the process). How "huge" your sacrifices are depends on start-up position and unfortunately the more sacrifices you do the more of your "soul" you loose.

Many never succeed or die before this dream comes true but they always make somebody else rich in this process Razz hence it is just another "trick"

The very few that succeed do face a dilema:
1) To become a slave master yourself like the guy above did
2) To relax and retire for the rest of their life.

Both are dangerous unsafe non ethical options.

As George Carlins very well said: ".. It is called the American Dream, because you have to be ASLEEP in order to believe it!!!"

_________________
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger,
more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage --
to move in the opposite direction."
Post 07 Nov 2007, 04:43
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
The children resulted should belong to the group and not to a certain individual in the sense that they could choose to stay with whoever they like to not being subject to the usual slavery of children towards their parents.

I would argue about this. Bringing up children inside family has proved it's point during natural selection. There is reason why children which had strong ties to their mother / father more likely survived, and why mothers/fathers who had ties to their children more likely produced successful offspring (reproduced). And this by far predated humans, you can see it in many organisms.

You could say that your utopic society could overcome need for such ties, but that is not society WE could live in. Maybe such society will exist in future, i hope so, but it is not anything real in our lifescope.

I personally believe we would have to modify ourselves genetically to remove ties just like this one, to be able to live in such society. Nature of people doesn't now allow such societies. And "breeding" won't work for this purpose - it takes too long to be feasible, and result is hardly predictable unless very long timespan applied. Breeding is in fact just a "unnatural selection", simulating what nature did: kill the worse, let better live. You can imagine "free humaneous society" which would do this over few (ten) thousand years...

I have one question to you about your model of society: Who will be the one "educating" children, eg. giving them information to form their personalities and knowledge? Will they learn in public schools, or how will this system work?
Post 07 Nov 2007, 05:31
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bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
vid wrote:

Quote:

The children resulted should belong to the group and not to a certain individual in the sense that they could choose to stay with whoever they like to not being subject to the usual slavery of children towards their parents.

I would argue about this. Bringing up children inside family has proved it's point during natural selection.


I beg to disagree Wink.

The word "uncle" is much older that the word "father" and the reason is simple: During the most critical periods of human evolution only the mother was certain. All males in the group have been "uncles".

The role of the family is to promote capitalism. The father wants to transmit his wealth to his child and needs a way to be sure that the children beongs to him and not another "uncle".

Hence he promotes family and limits the freedom of woman in this process.

The best wariors of Sparta have been the ones taken from their family while young (after the age of 4-5 years). CIA and Mossad and other agencies do train teams based on children taken from orfelinates and with very limited bonds to a family.

There is also a theory in intelligence that states that a man bond to his family will manage "average" decisions... in other ways non efficient, non logical, plagued with compromises and biased.

Nope, family is the key item in destroying a child's independence and intelligence, it promotes slavery right from day one. "I will feed you if you play nice and do not cry that much so i can go to work" Very Happy.. if you smile nice... behave nice and there is reward Very Happy been there done that to my own child. I am simply perceptive to my own actions.


Of course that human new born children are kind of immature and need support in form of food, protection, care, love. The best for this is the mother or "uncles" until a certain age is reached.

After that the children should be left alone. Helped, teach, supervised maybe but left to develop alone not under the pressure of the family.

Do not get me wrong. You must respect your parents, after all they did give you your body and genetic skills. Also your family and ancestors did perform work as slaves or slaves owners in order to provide you with a good "starting point"... For this you should thank them...

But

They also induce slavery in you from day one of your life. Until organized slavery in schools, university, army, work place etc does take over ... until then your very parents perform or transmit this force up on you.

besides making a children is a crime in this world. I will become either a new slave putting pressure on other slaves to work for less or a slave owner killing other for his best interest and preventing human race from evolution.

A perfect loose / loose solution.

Nature creates children's as a necessity. Basically is "thinks" like this: Oh dear yet another supreme being has failed me... did not evolve itself. Oh, well here we go again let us "trick" them with some "pleasure" they can not stand against and make them create yet another "supreme being"... maybe oh maybe this one will evolve...

Nature does not know otherwise, it will keep trying and keep trying in a random way until one day evolution will happen and somebody will take charge of this process, take responsibility and understand...

Until today nobody... or very few (Buddha, Jesus, Kabir, Krishna, Osho) did it. All of the others make children Very Happy

First children should be named: "Curiosity", or "Inconstience" or "She tricked me" or "He insisted too much"

The seccond children should be named: "Mutual stupidity"
The 3rd children should be named:"Damn negligence"

but all of them should have another surname: "Necessity"

And necessity is a bad word.
It means non evolution, it means non freedom

Quote:

There is reason why children which had strong ties to their mother / father more likely survived, and why mothers/fathers who had ties to their children more likely produced successful offspring (reproduced). And this by far predated humans, you can see it in many organisms.


Not exactly. many organism are simply born already prepared. An antelope will start walking in a few minutes and run in an extra minute. It takes a human child one year.

Of course their parents offer some protection at start, until the are ready to take care of them self. But hey sometimes some animals (fathers) kill the children just to make sex Razz (lions, bears) Still they are one of the most powerfully animals on Earth.

Besides that is how animals and nature does it. As i have said before it is not my target to become an animal or to obey the rules of nature.

I want evolution not animalism. I do not want to be a lion I intend to be an evolved human.

Nature has been kind enough to bring us until here. From here on we must take responsibility. Nature can not do more.

But once we are extinct /fail nature will start again with it's random tryouts in order to find another candidate species for evolution.


Quote:

You could say that your utopic society could overcome need for such ties, but that is not society WE could live in. Maybe such society will exist in future, i hope so, but it is not anything real in our lifescope.


Such ties are just a manipulation of the masters... and the failure of communism to destroy family ties was one of it's errors and doom.

Family promotes the idea that my small group is better when compared to human race, or others. It generates mafia, villages, countries and nations. It generates wars.

Basically all slave owners think to bring the best for their own "family" and to some extent to their own interest group and that is simply a bigger "family"

If we still have family then we are lost.

Or if you like it like this: We must extend the family to the whole race, include in your family all and each and every human from this planet. You can not allow for a children to have a live that is worst than your own children.

Clearly if we do not take responsible actions towards this "utopic" society it will never come. I agree that the chances of evolution of Man are slim.

More likely we will be eliminated. We have already wasted a lot of time and the clock is ticking no matter what. Our extinction is the only certain thing in this universe.

Quote:

I personally believe we would have to modify ourselves genetically to remove ties just like this one, to be able to live in such society.


I do not think so. From my experience you need more freedom and less ties with family in order to become intelligent. The more connected you are with your family the more stupid you are.

But do not get me wrong.. Again i must emphasis on the importance of early good food and the fact that the human being is born immature with a purpose. Hence we must take care of the young babies... and we must say thank you to the genetically parents for their role in creating a new sentient creature.

Quote:

Nature of people doesn't now allow such societies.


Apparently it did work perfectly UNTIL property and inheritance arrived... Wink

Quote:

And "breeding" won't work for this purpose - it takes too long to be feasible, and result is hardly predictable unless very long timespan applied.


Works for dogs, works for horses... I bet it works for human "animals" if we take the needed precautions. Ie. being able to return if we take a wrong turn.

Of course the real thing would be to really understand our genetic code and perform the adjustments ourself not to wait for nature to "select" this over time...

Quote:

Breeding is in fact just a "unnatural selection", simulating what nature did: kill the worse, let better live.


Again nature is not my super hero ... it did a good job simple because we are non evolved.

From the latest research it appears that in fact nature was not capable to get us here. genetic code suggests that some of our genes have been manipulated by another intelligent species. 223 genes have no reason to exist... guess what ? exactly the genes that make you intelligent and sentient...


Quote:

You can imagine "free humaneous society" which would do this over few (ten) thousand years...


Well that would be good also IF the Universe will extend our "lease" of this Planet... maybe...but my guess is that even in 100.000 years this species will never evolve. Besides the lease might not be "extended" that long...

I envision a much faster evolution, say a few hundred years maybe 1.000 years until total freedom in this galaxy if we stoup the stupid capitalism. look at how many things we acquired in 2-300 years from just a few idealist like Tesla.

And capitalism does not promote them, it makes idealist poor, it kills them... it promotes restaurant owners Razz

With freedom and reduce pressure to "work like a bull" i think our race will flourish and expand rapid in both inner evolution and external scientific evolution.



Quote:

I have one question to you about your model of society: Who will be the one "educating" children, eg. giving them information to form their personalities and knowledge? Will they learn in public schools, or how will this system work?



I view a workshop kind of learning. of course automates learning syste should be in place like virtual teachers and virtual encyclopedia. However my guess would be that children will firs socialize them self in games and play (playing football, volley, arts, basketball) and then there must be incentive for them from "wizards" that will show them how nice the M30/m31 looks in a telescope.

I know of no children that does not like the view of a distant beautiful galaxy.

Now it is the perfect time for "incentive" ... a time to explain the optics of a telescope and maybe a microscope.

Offer incentive images and also say that they should know optics, and physics and mathematics.

We need computers for Astro navigation and to control space ship engines.
We need computer to keep working of the automated systems that give us the freedom.

We need medicine to become immortal and to improve our genes. We need medicine to know the star-up of life an maybe one day help another species evolve.

We need mechanics to be able to build ships that would still hold when their electromagnetic shields collapse and to explore great deepths of oceans or to go into the Earth core.

And look how we can use electromagnetism to move objects with fields, with no mechanical or material intervention. we can send messages as electromagnetic fields from one planet to another... Is this not wonderfully?


There must be mo pressure to choose something... let the children explore understand and choose what they really like... discover their inner talents. With no regret...they can always come back and explore another field if they like to...

I for one would love to offer an incentive look into operating systems design, computer design, CPU inner workings, digital and analogical electronics to any children or group of children willing to listen... before or after they go play balls...

I also know quite some physics, mathematics, medicine, chemistry...and mechanics.

This how i see it: a workshop, around wizards or people that already have this passion. let them observe, explore, inquire and maybe choose in freedom what they want to do for the rest of their life... and with medicine that can be a very very long time...

Of course i bet there would be woman or people with a passion for young children that will love to supervise them ...or maybe not... if they can simply go from "uncle" to "uncle" or "mother" to "mother" and ask questions: what do you do? why? is it nice? show me.... Wink

_________________
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger,
more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage --
to move in the opposite direction."
Post 07 Nov 2007, 08:00
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bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
PS.
Last Sunday I observed a relatively large group of "mothers" and "uncles".

One 4 years child was also present. To my "surprise" he instantly choose another mother and another uncle to explore and stay with... he did not choose his natural parents...

Of course presented with the only "choice" of the very same mother and father every day they poor child will have to "vote" .. pretty much like republicans versus democrats ...ie no real choice

Or left wing versus right wing in my country...
Post 07 Nov 2007, 08:55
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
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vid
Quote:
From the latest research it appears that in fact nature was not capable to get us here. genetic code suggests that some of our genes have been manipulated by another intelligent species. 223 genes have no reason to exist... guess what ? exactly the genes that make you intelligent and sentient...

I would appreaciate you to *name* that latest research.
Post 07 Nov 2007, 12:24
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bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
Quote:

I would appreaciate you to *name* that latest research.


http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Gene_transfer.shtml

additional info:
http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/scope/keystone1/

more popular:
http://whyfiles.org/shorties/079bact_gene/

IMHO the idea of "horizontal transfer" is childish, a fast solution to an unexpected result in research. Besides who can tell if we got them from bacterias or if bacteria got it from us? After all bacterial cells are less protected then we are in the nucleus.
Post 07 Nov 2007, 13:05
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
thanks, gonna read it
Post 07 Nov 2007, 13:56
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
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vid
bogdan: those articles hardly support your claims, let's repeat your claims:

Quote:
from fthe latest research it appears that in fact nature was not capable to get us here.

that is not written in any of those articles. they only dispute idea that horizontal transfer is responsible for these genes. they dispute one explaination for origin of those genes, and provide OTHER (natural) explaination.

Quote:
genetic code suggests that some of our genes have been manipulated by another intelligent species.

is this in some of articles, or is it your conclusion? try to ask those researchers if their results suggest this, you will see some funny answers.

what they say is that vertical transfer (which is kinda differen't from aliens) is responsible for these genes, and that original study which they dispute failed to take gene loss into account to explain these genes.

Quote:
223 genes have no reason to exist...

again, that is your misinterpretation of those articles. No article says "they have no reason to exist", that would be completely unscientifical and against the very idea of evolution.

Quote:
guess what ? exactly the genes that make you intelligent and sentient...

and how did you learn that from those articles? I didn't find in any article name of single of those disputed genes, or claim that these genes have something to do with intelligence.

Quote:
IMHO the idea of "horizontal transfer" is childish, a fast solution to an unexpected result in research.

http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Gene_transfer.shtml wrote:
They do not exclude the possibility that lateral gene transfer has occurred between bacteria and vertebrates and provide evidence for one "probable case," a protein called N-acetylneuraminate lyase.

childish fast-solution, that research cited by you, isn't it?

Quote:
Besides who can tell if we got them from bacterias or if bacteria got it from us? After all bacterial cells are less protected then we are in the nucleus.

And how would those genes get created in us, so that they can be transfered to bacteries? You are back at the same problem. Precisely because our better protection of genome that you mentioned, we are way less likely to produce new genes than bacteries.

Sad to say so, I am disappointed by you. I thought you are more scientific guy, not one of those who stretches science to make it appear to support what you would like to be truth.
Post 07 Nov 2007, 14:26
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
This caught my eye:
Quote:
genetic code suggests that some of our genes have been manipulated by another intelligent species.
Interestingly enough, on Nova last week (a science program on public television in the US), the subject was genomes and a recent discovery of something called 'epigenomes'. These are wrappers which exist in the body and wrap themselves around genomes turning them off. Scientists feel this is what makes humans not resemble apes, which contain most of the same genes as humans, but also why one of twins may get diseases the other doesn't and why some of us get diseases and others don't.

A friend of mine, who is a psychiatrist, told me this is a fascinating discovery and much research is going on. More on epigenomes than genes themself because, iirc, the same genes are everywhere but are controlled by epigenomes.

I think you can view the show at pbs.org under Nova.
Post 07 Nov 2007, 15:26
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bogdanontanu



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bogdanontanu
Quote:

Sad to say so, I am disappointed by you. I thought you are more scientific guy, not one of those who stretches science to make it appear to support what you would like to be truth.


Do not be sad vid, instead be happy that you have reached to the conclusion of your research ... Wink
Post 07 Nov 2007, 17:03
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
Quote:
Do not be sad vid, instead be happy that you have reached to the conclusion of your research

i would prefer response to those other points, about scientifical evidence for your claims, which you insisted you have
Post 07 Nov 2007, 17:31
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bogdanontanu



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bogdanontanu
Quote:

i would prefer response to those other points, about scientifical evidence for your claims, which you insisted you have


I bet you would...

However under the circumstances it think it would be so much better if you have had performed your own research and reached your own conclusions, be it positive or negative about this issue.
Post 07 Nov 2007, 19:21
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Quote:
However under the circumstances it think it would be so much better if you have had performed your own research and reached your own conclusions, be it positive or negative about this issue.

Unfortunatelly, i am not skilled enough in genetics to effectively research this area.

okay, just wondering: are you aware of some scientical evidence for your claims? If yes, why don't you want to tell us what it is?
Post 07 Nov 2007, 19:33
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bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
Quote:

okay, just wondering: are you aware of some scientical evidence for your claims? If yes, why don't you want to tell us what it is?


First of all I would like to state that I do not own any scientifically evidence for my claims. If you read my words I write "it appears" (apparently) and "that suggest" and not "proven beyond reasonable doubt".

Even if I might be able to acquire the needed skills I do not own research facilities and devices required to prove such claims.

The links I have provided are simply starting points for the reader;s own research if he or she are so interested.

However "under the circumstances" discussed above (our current social organization) even IF I would have such profs then I would not dare to make them public.

The reason for this is simple: I do not see it as beneficial until we have not solved our local planetary / internal issues first.

I do not think that statistically speaking there is any doubt that there is intelligent more advanced life out there in the Universe (latest research about solar systems with multiple planets again Wink ) but I find this of little relevance for us since again I think we must evolve on our own first and interact with "others" later.
Post 07 Nov 2007, 20:26
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
First of all I would like to state that I do not own any scientifically evidence for my claims. If you read my words I write "it appears" (apparently) and "that suggest" and not "proven beyond reasonable doubt".

Quote:
223 genes have no reason to exist... guess what ? exactly the genes that make you intelligent and sentient...

this part does seem pretty sure about what it is saying.

Quote:
I do not think that statistically speaking there is any doubt that there is intelligent more advanced life out there in the Universe (latest research about solar systems with multiple planets again ) but I find this of little relevance for us since again I think we must evolve on our own first and interact with "others" later.

such estimates are beyond serious science... it is even near to impossible to calculate chance for live to develop on earth, not even in space.

Also note that existence of extraterrestrial civilization has nothing to do with our topic. Their existention doesn't in any way suggest they manipulated our DNA. These Dänikenish ideas are completely unfounded, and your "starting point" article in no way "suggested" it.
Post 07 Nov 2007, 20:40
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