flat assembler
Message board for the users of flat assembler.

Index > Heap > to live means to work like bull?

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author
Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
if it is so, then i agree

i didn't think of such interpretation
Post 02 Nov 2007, 08:04
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8902
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
if we look at one point, "not everybody could be a leader"
not everybody will become expert in computer, electronic and etc.

there will be followers, and they will be in great quantity.
of course, leade will automatically gain power, respect and etc and eventually will make a difference between "leader" and "follower"

and insider follower, there are many type, i break it into 2 main types, those who will appreciate what their leader did and those who won't.

we have problem with those who won't. Coz those who won't will not care for you(leader) and they will just force you to do whatever they want. the more free you give them, the more they will ask and demand and force until you couldn't give them anything.

money is a tool to force this group of people (those who never appreciate) to work for the leader.imo.
Post 02 Nov 2007, 16:29
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
sleepsleep wrote:

if we look at one point, "not everybody could be a leader"
not everybody will become expert in computer, electronic and etc.


First of all we do not need any such "leaders". Evolution means that each and every man discovers his own inner potential be it scientific and / or mysterious.

Into the right environment each human will discover his own special abilities, his own talents and this will remove the need for leaders.

Leadership and power are a disease. A disease that shows lack of confidence in yourself and a seek of acceptance and reinforcements for your mistakes from your "followers" ... You say: "they follow me... and so many people can not be wrong... hence I must be right".

Einstein did not need any leaders, Tesla did not need leaders, neither did Leonardo.

See leadership as what it is: "a disease". Try to cure and not to kill the leader. The "pour" man is ill, he needs a cure.

Everyone can become very good in a field where his natural talents and physical or brain features are located. You just need to find this area of expertise.

The problems arise when you go into areas where you are not a natural expert because you seek "success".

Because of this some lazy arrogant but naturally talented guy will wipe the floor with you every time when he feels like... and you will become frustrated... and you need money and power to compensate for this... or maybe you will stage up a rebellion Very Happy

Quote:

there will be followers, and they will be in great quantity.


NO there will be no "follower". instead there will be understanding of each and everyone. Maybe some basic things need to be done.

We must seek to destroy the need for groups. We need a new kind of technology that is individual. Technology that can make "one" stand against "many".

We need individuals that know their skills and talents well, that are rooted into this and take "leadership" and "followers" as what it is: "a disease" a sign of no evolution.

We do not need "followers", esp not in big numbers. maybe 1-or 2 apprentices that will learn very fast how to "fly away" and become their own masters.

Quote:

of course, leade will automatically gain power, respect and etc and eventually will make a difference between "leader" and "follower"


NO.
I make no difference between me and Thomasz, between me and Eugen.

We are humans on our own path towards evolution. We have the same basic needs but not the very same talents and skills (even is some are similar).

Only you can make a difference if you do not know yourself well enough.
I know that we are in fact as "one".

Quote:

and insider follower, there are many type, i break it into 2 main types, those who will appreciate what their leader did and those who won't.


Try to make from "two" only "one". Your path here is to sepparate and divide humans into two and then two and then two again. This path goes nowhere. It is good for science but even there we neeed an "unifying theory".

People being independent, having their own basic needs guaranteed for free will not have time for such division and fights inside groups.

They will be busy knowing, finding and searching for their talents and skills.
They will be busy enjoying the ride and making discovery of the universe.

Who will even bother with such nonsense as who should we follow and do I like or dislike the "leader"

What leader anyway? What "group" ? we do not need them.


Quote:

we have problem with those who won't. Coz those who won't will not care for you(leader) and they will just force you to do whatever they want.


An artificially problem generated by your division and group oriented thinking.

However, who can force me do anything if my basic needs are filled for free? Eh? Nobody can my friend.

That is why we must seek technology that is individual ad drop technology that is based on "groups".

We must gain freedom FROM such manipulations and we must not forget to use our gained freedom FOR a nice reason: for exploration, for improving the freedom of others since it is ultimately our own freedom.

Quote:

the more free you give them, the more they will ask and demand and force until you couldn't give them anything.


How could I "give" or "take away" their freedom?
Freedom must be offered for free to everybody. It is measurement of our evolution.

Why would they consider performing such an act?

Besides freedom means exactly this: no matter how many they are, how powerfull they CAN NOT force me to do anything.

Anything I do ...I do for LOVE. It is done ONLY if I like it and consider that will help me and others into evolution.

That is why we need individual technology and that is why we need to bash (for a while) groups as a concept.

Quote:

money is a tool to force this group of people (those who never appreciate) to work for the leader.imo.


Yes money can be used as a tool to enforce slavery in conjunction with generated needs.

However this is very pour excuse for slavery: "... they made me do it, I had to do it" ...

Something in our organization is wrong IF you "have had to do it Very Happy
Somewhere I detect dishonesty into this statement.

_________________
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger,
more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage --
to move in the opposite direction."
Post 02 Nov 2007, 19:02
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Quote:
you give them less than the value of their work
Are you assuming this or you just know it to be true? These are not highly educated people and, iirc, only half even have a high school diploma. Even so, I pay $2/hour (20%
) more than average for restaurant workers; but that's what I like to do.
Quote:
you exploit their need to have a decent life to your own advantage. It is clearly seen because you have a better life than they have.
Having a better life compared to another simply based on salary is not logical. I have more knowledge of the total operation, can do more things, work more hours, risk my own personal wealth but I shouldn't be compensated for this more than an employee?
Quote:
we must all work together for everybody's benefit in equal parts... and not for "somebody".
To think that all people will work equally in such a case is false hope.
Quote:
It is in fact more acceptable to die than to work for "somebody"
More acceptable to whom? I know of no one who thinks this.
Quote:
my actions probably have killed 100 children in Africa or Asia or India.
If your actions of eating kill them, do their actions kill people, too? If you don't eat, then you die. Where does this make sense? But you do it anyway. Do you cry all the way to the grocery store? Do you shed tears when buy that laptop?
Quote:
taken out from the pressure stream of capitalism and groups most people become Einstein or Michelangelo or Leonardo.
These people did not become great overnight. Few reach the heights these have. If it was that easy, there would be many more. Great minds come from all over. Capitalism would push great minds because profit is to be made. There is little profit in them doing a collective "think".
Quote:
crime disappeared pretty fast in communism not because it was punished but instead because it was not rewarded like in capitalism.
I'm sure punishment had a lot going for it, though. I don't understand how you can say crime is rewarded, except if you insist on this "slavery" thing.

I'm wondering how much you feel that everyone is the same as you. While you may be willing to do things for free. Few others are. Or at least, given the choice of doing something for free and getting paid for it, they will always choose the pay. Doing things for the love of humanity is what charities are for; at least here in the US.

Man is an aggressive animal. This is why we seek to "get ahead" but also why there are wars and why people kill. Man does not want to be told what to do and when or where.

You say we should all work for others, otherwise we are slaves, but what if I don't want to work for others. Am I still a slave to the whims of others? If the work I do benefits me, and if I do more/better work and it benefits me more, will that not make me happier; perhaps others, too? If increasing the quality or quantity of my work does not benefit me more, why should I do it?

I have to stop reading. I was out of town, at my country home (just a mobile home Smile . I've just returned and I'm tired.
Post 02 Nov 2007, 21:54
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Dr. Fine wrote:
...I have more knowledge of the total operation, can do more things, work more hours, risk my own personal wealth but I shouldn't be compensated for this more than an employee? ...
In my opinion, capitalist ideology requires no such sentiment. Here's a hypothetical: You mention living in your "country home" (good to interject some humor in a serious discourse!), i.e. trailer park, which in turn implies the requirement to drive an automobile from the restaurant to your "home". In this hypothetical scenario, you are involved in a serious accident while traveling in the car, perhaps left paralyzed, or worse: brain damaged, or even dead. Now, what happens to the restaurant: Well, in this morbid situation, i.e. your death, your heirs will then become the owners of the restaurant, and they may know nothing at all about the work, and in fact, they may not even visit the restaurant. They may SELL it, or they may hire someone to run the operation as a manager. In that case, there will still be profits, won't there? Well, let's assume the menu doesn't change, and the workers continue to be as productive, etc, then, those profits will accrue to the heirs, not to the workers, even though the heirs do not "work more hours", and have absolutely no knowledge at all about "the total operation". Capitalism doesn't require you to have knowledge of anything, capitalism simply requires that you possess capital. If you have capital, and are willing to risk it, and invest it, and then gain a return on that investment, then, you are a capitalist. One may be a vicious capitalist, or a benign capitalist, but the point is, capitalists decide how to invest their wealth, rather than allowing "the state", or some committee to decide how to invest one's wealth. There is, in other words, no need to introduce into this discussion, the quantity of wages you pay, or your understanding of the restaurant business. For all we know, you invest in Tobacco fields in North Carolina. Makes no difference at all. Capitalism is concerned neither with WHY the money is invested, nor HOW, but rather, only with the "bottom line", i.e. how much profit will accrue using this capital.
sleepsleep wrote:
...must life be stress in order to achieve its mean? ...
So, we return to the beginning: Dr. Fine concluded his post by writing that he was exhausted after an arduous day at the restaurant, and both he and Bogdan have written lengthly summaries of their respective positions, and we FASM forumers are not closer to achieving the answer to sleepsleep's question. I will endeavor to offer an opinion about living like a Bull. Cows and Bulls mainly eat. Humans do quite a few other things, some of them quite useful, glorious, and beautiful. Others not so helpful. But, almost every human considers his/her life wasted if denied an opportunity to express one's particular goal. Whether one works diligently, with or without a reasonable remuneration, or one is unmotivated, and is simply passing time on the planet earth, waiting for Godot, still, I believe, that every person, not brain damaged, has some interests, and seeks to further those interests eventually. Here's hoping some of those folks encounter FASM, as Dr. Fine, sleepsleep, Bogdan and I did.
Smile
Post 02 Nov 2007, 22:45
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8902
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
Quote:
First of all we do not need any such "leaders". Evolution means that each and every man discovers his own inner potential be it scientific and / or mysterious.

Into the right environment each human will discover his own special abilities, his own talents and this will remove the need for leaders.


in perfect situation/environment and correct attitude, this is what we all should aim to achieve, but does his own discovered single "special abilities" alone is enough to enable him to have a comfortable life on earth?

if one special abilities is not enough, then he must gathers more than one special abilities, and that means, more time and more learning. (or you mean something like matrix?, put in the cd and load it into ur brain?)

considering 10 person, each of them have one special abilities, sure a leader is needed in such situation to manage and eventually output something from that 10 abilities.

Quote:
Everyone can become very good in a field where his natural talents and physical or brain features are located. You just need to find this area of expertise.

how many years are needed in order to locate and train this area of expertise before it could becomes usefull ?

Quote:
NO there will be no "follower". instead there will be understanding of each and everyone

in a perfect society, this is what we all aim for.
but how many people could become a teacher without become a student first?

Quote:
We must seek to destroy the need for groups. We need a new kind of technology that is individual. Technology that can make "one" stand against "many".

"money" have that ability to "one" stand against "many".

Quote:
They will be busy knowing, finding and searching for their talents and skills. They will be busy enjoying the ride and making discovery of the universe.

that is if they want, wat if some of them are lazy, some of them just want to relax and enjoy. Considering there are different kinds of fruit, so are we going to force them to eat just one type out of that many fruits?

Quote:
What leader anyway? What "group" ? we do not need them.

imo, a leader is inevitable, just we need to instill the knowledge into followers that a leader shouldn't be followed blindly.

Quote:
However, who can force me do anything if my basic needs are filled for free? Eh? Nobody can my friend.

then how bout desire, when it is on rage, it would becomes more than just basic needs, and i am quite sure you couldn't fill that for free.

Quote:
Freedom must be offered for free to everybody.

then who decide the level of freedom to be given free to everybody? if everybody able to access to all levels of freedom, there would be chaos
Post 02 Nov 2007, 23:25
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
Quote:
you give them less than the value of their work

Are you assuming this or you just know it to be true? These are not highly educated people and, iirc, only half even have a high school diploma. Even so, I pay $2/hour (20%) more than average for restaurant workers; but that's what I like to do.

Simple: if you gave them back entire valure of their work, then your company won't have any profit.

Freedom is problematic term. How about freedom to kill? Freedom to have sex with children for NAMBLA? Total freedom is anarchy. Society is about restricting freedom. Good society should restrict freedom of individuals to exploit masses, and so make things better for majority.
Post 02 Nov 2007, 23:48
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
drhowarddrfine wrote:

Are you assuming this or you just know it to be true? These are not highly educated people and, iirc, only half even have a high school diploma. Even so, I pay $2/hour (20%
) more than average for restaurant workers; but that's what I like to do.


I suspect that you do not pay them fair.

This is what is fair:
Add all your income generated by clients, substaract taxes (state slave owners), expenses (electricity, watter, raw materials, etc). Divide the money equally between all workers including yourself and pay each one that equal share. That would be fair.

I do not know for sure but I do suspect you are not doing this.
If you do this, then you got me by the balls Very Happy

They are humans just like you. The fact that they do no have an education it is our everybody else's fault.

I have benefited from free communist offered university education hence I do not need extra education but I guess they could not afford to pay for education in US and hence they might need more money.

Of course I do know that this would probably not work in US. But maybe if we start to understand this, in time we could find a solution and fix this problem.

I do not think education is a solution. If they had education (like me) they you would pay them a higher salary because they would generate more income for your pocket.

Hence this is a weak excuse.

For that amount of money ($2 per hour) I would not even get down from my bed in the morning not to mention working for your good status Razz

Unless... I was forced to Very Happy .... do you see the connection?

I do not consider myself more valuable than or superior to your workers.

I am simply more lucky. Lucky to have free education, better free teachers, lucky to have better food when I was young so my brain developed better, lucky that my parents have had better genetically history. Overall I was more lucky that is all.

But they are humans just like me and they deserve to have exactly the same as I have.

Quote:

Having a better life compared to another simply based on salary is not logical.


I can not talk for Buddha or Jesus. I have heard that there are people on this planet that when are confronted with material poverty or power pressure and threats simply say that you can bend their body, penetrate or kill them but you can not bend or enslave their soul or conscience.

Such people are rare.

I have seen that 90% of people when they have low resources (money) will accept slavery because of needs. Then they will become frustrated and this sometimes leads to violence to others or to yourself (sadness) and sometimes crimes in many of them. Sometimes it make them become slave owners (like your case).

This puts a stop to evolution.

I have also seen that material equality removes crimes very fast and establishes an environment where people can evolve and get education.

Of course it does not happen automatically but the environment promotes and favorites this better kind of actions.

freedom and material needs are on the first place IMHO. After that we must not forget that we do have intellectual and spiritual needs. Of course not freedom to kill or enslave others.

A poor people does not have time for education, he/she are much too busy with work for survival or decent existence.

Simply put: They are too busy making somebody else rich

Quote:

I have more knowledge of the total operation, can do more things, work more hours, risk my own personal wealth but I shouldn't be compensated for this more than an employee?


I certainly know more than you, I can surely do more things than you, work more hours than you, I have risked my wealth more, should I be compensated more?

The answer is NO.

I have done all this because I CAN.

IF I can do it then it means I do not need extra help. The ones that can not do such things are the ones that need extra help. We need to seek why they can not, understand, try to help them eventually at least do not push them even into more problems.

Ultimately each and every man, criminal, foul or looser is our problem.

We have indirectly (because of his parents) bring life to him/she and we must take care of him/she.

It would be nice if he could evolve by himself in a nice environment we provide for free... but it he/she can not we must help and ask ourself what have we done wrong?


Quote:

To think that all people will work equally in such a case is false hope.


Well,... then I am wrong. But I do fail to see why this hope is false. Each time I ask somebody if we share benefits equally they would do this, given the right explanations they do agree.

When it fails is when somebody (sometimes myself being stupid) does try to get more than others for whatever reasons...

It worked kind of ok in socialist/communist states so it is clearly possible and doable. But I do agree we must test an see and seek to refine our methods, our understandings and evolution.


Quote:

Quote:
It is in fact more acceptable to die than to work for "somebody"
More acceptable to whom? I know of no one who thinks this.


Well to those that put the bases of socialist/communist states (quite a lot of people) To those involved in cooperation and good doing. To those involved in cooperatives (bausparkasse in germany?)

It looked ok to Sparta in ancient Greek, to Spartacus slaves rebellion, to a big part of China, to Cuba.

I agree it requires a lot of courage, intelligence and understanding. I do agree it is hard to cooperate without fight. I agree that capitalistic country and agencies will seek to destroy such constructs.

But otherwise we do no seem to evolve. 10.000 years of slavery and it's bigger brother capitalisms have brought us very little but gadgets and more everyday work to the benefit of a very few.

What else is "greater productivity" other than more money in the pockets on slave owners?

Quote:
If your actions of eating kill them, do their actions kill people, too? If you don't eat, then you die. Where does this make sense?


It depends it they are above or under the planetary average. Since food i eat has to come from somewhere and has been grown by somebody it depends how much money does that person get for his work.

Usually food price ans work price is kept at very low value "by market" and such people are under payed badly. When they eat they do eat from what they produce hence they kill nobody. It depends on each situation.

But I do confess seeing beggars attacking other beggars on the streets.

But I also confess this was never an issue when everybody did had the basic need filled "for free".

Quote:

But you do it anyway.


Yes, and I am not proud of it.

Quote:

Do you cry all the way to the grocery store? Do you shed tears when buy that laptop?


No, I cry later on when I realize the consequences of my actions I do cry alone in my room so I do not put more pressure on other people with my own problems. Sometimes my child see me an asks me why I cry. I can not tell him yet.

I can surely "kill", and be a predator when I do have NEEDS. I hope i know when to stop Razz .

However I also try to understand and find a solution to all this recurrent path of actions of myself.

This reminds me of a nice Romanian poetry by Nicolae Labis named "Moartea Caprioarei" ("death of a dear")

Basically a poor family was practically dying of hunger and the boy and the father went out hunting for a dear. The dear was nice and got killed when drinking water (in needs). The boy was both happy the he, his sister, mother and father will not die of hunger but also sad for killing. Whil he was eating the meat of the dear he was also crying for the poor dear and the joy they have killed.

That depicts very clear how I feel: ..."Mananc si plang... mananc...avem carne!" translated: "I eat, and I cry, but I eat... We have meat this week!!!!"

The times have changed, I do not go into the woods hunting for dears anymore, I go to grocery and I buy laptops but as far as I can tell I am the very same barbarian... I cry now.

Quote:

Quote:
taken out from the pressure stream of capitalism and groups most people become Einstein or Michelangelo or Leonardo.
These people did not become great overnight. Few reach the heights these have. If it was that easy, there would be many more.


There are no more because of the pressure of capitalism. I for one have stopped some inventions because I know that mankind does not deserve them. The best way is not to do them.

Einstein said that it was much better if he was a plummer. He would not have the Hiroshima and Nagasaki on his conscience... This is what happens with your creations: some rich people will find a way to use term for killing and more slavery.

Quote:

Great minds come from all over. Capitalism would push great minds because profit is to be made. There is little profit in them doing a collective "think".


NO. Profit is only done by humans that can not do other things, the worst non creative ones that have given up their souls.

Creative people are happy to be able to do creation. The simple act of creation, the simple act of understanding your inner soul is such rewarding that you do not need much more.

Unfortunately there are invoices every month and they get you there by your "balls".

It is hard for creative people to stop but IMHO they should stop because they only help slave owners by "inventions". At least ASM is kind of ironic.

Quote:

Quote:
crime disappeared pretty fast in communism not because it was punished but instead because it was not rewarded like in capitalism.
I'm sure punishment had a lot going for it, though. I don't understand how you can say crime is rewarded, except if you insist on this "slavery" thing.


Crime was not really punished, there was no capital punishment in communism. Getting out of prison they were forced to give you a hose and a job to reintegrate you into society. Nobody could say they would not hire you or not want you nearby (although they did not wanted you)

It is not rewarded because you have no real use for money because you have equal with everybody else anyway.

While in capitalism with the gained money you can life instantly like a King.

Yes maybe you will get cought and maybe even executed BUT you have had a life of a king at least for a few days... Some "salves" that are honest and work all life with 2$/ hour will never have this until they die. So it crime pays big time in capitalism. This is why crime can never be stopped in capitalism.

In communism you will not have the life of a king.

With stolen money you will have exactly the same you have had before you stole... just add a fear to go to prison and loose some of your freedom... nothing extra. That is why thief often tried to get out of borders into the western countries to benefit from the extra income.

Quote:

I'm wondering how much you feel that everyone is the same as you. While you may be willing to do things for free. Few others are.


I know a few. But if "they" do not want to "work for free" we must seek and understand their reasons, learn if there is something intelligent and dismiss and explain it is is just myths or beliefs maybe help a little.

However it is not exactly for free is it?

You get something for free from the society: house, food, ... that basic "average" that the planet can sustain. You will get them even if you do not work.

So the logical consequence would be to perform some work in exchange to maintain and improve this for the future generations that will inherit the planet.

The only important thing is that this work should not end up into somebody else pocket because he is your "owner"

But you are true here: they have to understand this each one for himself.
Removing their freedom is not an option for me unless it is freedom to kill or to enslave.

I know that you are probably right and human race will never understand this and they will continue to work for 2$ an hour.

But hey, I had to try Wink

Quote:

Or at least, given the choice of doing something for free and getting paid for it, they will always choose the pay. Doing things for the love of humanity is what charities are for; at least here in the US.


This reminds me of a joke:
A rich bussines man sees a primitive man resting and doing "nothing" under a palm tree. Aggravated he gets down from his super luxury car and ask the man why is he not working. The man ask:
- Why work?
- To have money
- Why?
- To have stuff, have a big account in a bank
- Why?
- So you can retire and rest
- I enjoy and I am resting right NOW and HERE the "primitive" man answered...

This actually happened to me with my first "owner". I did not understood it back then. Now I do.

Charity is for making you conscience "clean"

This does not work. You first take with 10 hands all your life, kill indirectly thousands and then you suddenly give back with only 1 hand a little something in order to improve your "image" and make yourself believe you are "a good man".

They are useful for improving the "image" of capitalism. Not a real solution for this problem.

In my company i used to give them free Cola and Pepsi and free pizza and I used to allow free games on computers when we did not have something else to "work".

Hihihi I have tried to make my soul "feel" better... to make it sleep a little.

It does not work.

I guess some of them have been "tricked".

But i guess for the more intelligent or perceptive ones I could have offered even free sex... they would have still understood that I am "the master" and they are "the slaves" as long as I take more from their work compared to what they do take.

Quote:

Man is an aggressive animal.


Maybe. But evolution means exactly that we try to drop this.
being an animal is not my target, not my supreme value in life.

Quote:

This is why we seek to "get ahead" but also why there are wars and why people kill. Man does not want to be told what to do and when or where.


I beg to disagree. Violence comes from frustration. Frustration comes from material problems (offten, rarely spiritual). Wars are a logical consequence of somebody having more stuff than somebody else and a will the "go out an get it" from another group.

A group manipulated by an owner that will of course benefit from the conflict even more.

Quote:

You say we should all work for others, otherwise we are slaves, but what if I don't want to work for others.


I you do not want to work then we will have to support you until you die. And then try to understand what we did wrong and think twice before making another child... Who knows maybe it will do just like you Very Happy

Quote:

Am I still a slave to the whims of others?


You Should not be a slave.

Quote:

If the work I do benefits me, and if I do more/better work and it benefits me more, will that not make me happier; perhaps others, too?


Surely true UNLESS you use others to perform the work for yourself.

What you do with your own hands is yours as long as you do not try to enslave others. We would love to hear from you but as long as you decide to keep it for yourself it is your right and so be it.

Quote:

If increasing the quality or quantity of my work does not benefit me more, why should I do it?


For LOVE. It does benefit you and others also and hence it returns to you also. And humanity as a whole does benfit from your creativity (just do not create slaves).

Is there any greater purpose for existence than creativity and joy? Blissfull joy because you know everybody has the same?

Quote:

I have to stop reading. I was out of town, at my country home (just a mobile home Smile . I've just returned and I'm tired.


Sorry for being verbose Wink

_________________
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger,
more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage --
to move in the opposite direction."


Last edited by bogdanontanu on 03 Nov 2007, 01:32; edited 1 time in total
Post 03 Nov 2007, 00:52
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
Ooops, vid is more concise and he posted during my reply Very Happy
Apparently there are advantages of being concise Very Happy
Post 03 Nov 2007, 00:54
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
And how come that when you have so much work to do in order to keep your restaurants running you still find time to answer my posts here?

I am a slave, I have nothing else to do Razz

I will tell you how: Somewhere deep inside you honestly consider that I am wrong and there is the danger that my words will somehow "infect" others with such "nonsense" and they will suffer later in their life.

Hence because of your inner soul search for evolution you are performing some "free work".

This is a good example how easy the inner conscience gets involved in free work IF it believes it is for the good of mankind.
Post 03 Nov 2007, 02:13
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
sleepsleep wrote:


in perfect situation/environment and correct attitude, this is what we all should aim to achieve, but does his own discovered single "special abilities" alone is enough to enable him to have a comfortable life on earth?


I think most people have multiple abilities. maybe a principal main ability and a few secondary ones. Like for example: Physics being principal, electronics and chemistry to be secondary and maybe medicine tertiary.

That is because features of the brain are "diffused" not exactly confines into a single location.

I think we must aim to make each people as well developed as possible or as much as he/she likes, something like Leonardo da Vinci.

About this "special features" being "enough" for survival:

My aim / idea is to gradually move all work and survival issues into the area of automated machines. This "survival" is not a decent activity for intelligent humans and nobody should have this burden.

Think to your body: it has billions of slaves (cells) that automatically perform work for you (now it would be a good time to say thank you to your body cells).

But you are not constantly aware of this, it is performed automatically and you are able to dedicate your conscience to "a greater purpose".

But your cells live in communism. they are all given what they need when they need it. If not you are ill, you have a problem.

Your cells do not compete each other.

When they do compete it is cancer or another illness. Our current social organization (capitalism) is like planting disease on purpose in our own body... it is playing with fire with no reason and the results are clear: wars, crimes, non happiness, slow evolution, no performance, waste of resources.

Similarly we should try to remove this burden from humans and create the time and free space for creativity and research to develop.

Quote:

if one special abilities is not enough, then he must gathers more than one special abilities, and that means, more time and more learning. (or you mean something like matrix?, put in the cd and load it into ur brain?)


Of course learning and development will never stop during your life.

Once you are old you could still be usefully because your experience is useful for others that are much younger but not as experienced.

Maybe someday we could develop a device for fast learning like in matrix movie... however IMHO we are still far away from that.

And my main issue here is that any technological development we make will be in fact to the benefit and use of the slave masters. It is simply a trick.

Tesla invented free energy and his owner told him: "yeah ? and where do I put the meter to make me rich eh?" and then he fired Tesla...

Can you imagine the super intelligent Tesla being fired by his dumb fat ass boss? Well that is exactly what happened. And Tesla died relatively poor in a hotel in US (did not own a house) while the dumb capitalist become more rich by the use of AC current that Tesla has invented.

We all use and benefit from Tesla's AC electricity today. But he biggest benefit was for his boos and his company. And he suppressed god knows how many inventions of Tesla.

Quote:

considering 10 person, each of them have one special abilities, sure a leader is needed in such situation to manage and eventually output something from that 10 abilities.


No. IF a need is present and must be solved I think it is in the best interest of all of us to try and solve it once and for all people.

If more than one people has an interest into this problem to be solved then I trust they are intelligent enough in order to cooperate and work together for a limited while without the need of "a leader".

Leaders create more problems than they solve.

Once the problem is solved then the team can auto dissolve. I bet they will remain friends but not because they have been "united" under a "leader".

If an problem requires a "group" for a longer period of time or it is critical then I guess we can all vote an allow this under heavy scrutiny and checking.

The team might auto elect a "de facto" temporary leader but his power must be limited and more technical in nature. It must result from the acceptance and understanding of the group rather than from an official document.

For example it would be more logical to trust Thomasz with any problems concerning FASM improvements.

If the power is limited in both time and features and checked then for a short while and only because of an acute necessity (think an asteroid threat to the planet) then it can be accepted intelligently.

The truth is that this "need" shows non-evolution and a limitation we have.

The correct solution would be that and single human should be able to solve the problem by himself... but that is a distant goal.

We might "have to" accept a temporary group and maybe a leader. But we must understand that this is wrong and finish it as fast as possible and also try to make it not needed anymore in the future.

One example would be everybody making his own assembler Wink

Then you would probably talk and debate with Thomasz on different issues but you will not really need him Very Happy

Quote:

Quote:
Everyone can become very good in a field where his natural talents and physical or brain features are located. You just need to find this area of expertise.

how many years are needed in order to locate and train this area of expertise before it could becomes usefull ?


As much as it takes. It does not matter, there is no hurry with all basic needs filled for free... is it? We should not make a new child until we do not have the resources for his life already stacked up and ready: house, food, clothes, etc.

Yes I know that there will be more problems like love and lust and sex but hey I did not say it is going to be that easy Wink

I just say that this looks like the "right path" to be taken. Clearly there will be problems on the path.

But the path we use now simply exacerbated the problems with no use.

Quote:

Quote:
NO there will be no "follower". instead there will be understanding of each and everyone

in a perfect society, this is what we all aim for.
but how many people could become a teacher without become a student first?


Well, why no teacher? We can have automated teachers, internet databases, surely there will be people that will like or love to design such systems and even to do it by hand them self.

Besides I did suggested an apprentice kind of learning.

I hesitate to teach people today because ...hey they could become slave owners tomorrow Very Happy

Quote:

Quote:
We must seek to destroy the need for groups. We need a new kind of technology that is individual. Technology that can make "one" stand against "many".

"money" have that ability to "one" stand against "many".


Not really, just by social convention.

If you have 10.000 euro in your pocket but no army of weapon or protection shield how is this going to protect you from 100 hungry man that want to kill and eat you?

Your skills of fighting might protect you for a while (think a spartan warrior).
Or a technological shield might also Very Happy

Money help you enslave others but only because they are afraid of the police and army and consequences.

How is 10.000 euros going to help you cerate your own assembler? If you do not have the skills or intelligence? You can pay somebody else to do it for you but that is simple slavery.

You do not "stand" your own ground, instead you simply steal and base yourself on many many others in doing this (police, army)


Quote:

Quote:
They will be busy knowing, finding and searching for their talents and skills. They will be busy enjoying the ride and making discovery of the universe.

that is if they want, wat if some of them are lazy, some of them just want to relax and enjoy. Considering there are different kinds of fruit, so are we going to force them to eat just one type out of that many fruits?


Well, from my experience "relax" and "enjoy" and "lazy" are simple reaction of the slaves to countless years of beeing exploited.

Once this "rush" is over most people discover something to do, have a passion or a dream to try... and then their creativity does flowers.

We can still used money for different kinds of goods in order to equivalent them by the work needed. So you get an equal amount of money each month and you can buy 100 bananas or 2 super costly fruits... your freedom of choice.

But in the long run the automated system can learn that you like that kind of fruit and i like another kind of fruit or food and adjust or adapt in order to suit your needs. The same happens with your body cells in some limits.

And of course if I like oranges I will have a special intrests in designing automated systems that will produce oranges while I bet you will like something else and work to improve that subsystem... for "free"

Quote:

Quote:
What leader anyway? What "group" ? we do not need them.

imo, a leader is inevitable, just we need to instill the knowledge into followers that a leader shouldn't be followed blindly.


A leader is inevitable only if we are not evolved. We might reluctantly accept it at start but we must work towards a no-leadership society. Or if you prefer an organization where everybody is a leader.

As a temporary solution we could rotate everybody to be a leader for a limited small period... a few days, or weeks maximum.

Quote:

Quote:
However, who can force me do anything if my basic needs are filled for free? Eh? Nobody can my friend.

then how bout desire, when it is on rage, it would becomes more than just basic needs, and i am quite sure you couldn't fill that for free.


Well it that appears then there is something wrong with our education system or understanding. Clearly we can desire more that what we can provide at a certain moment...

We have to understand the situation it is not acceptable that i have more than you have simply because "i can" !

We will still need some basic laws at the start but the correct line of action would be to used the energy from desire in order to create something to fill that need "for free"

If that is not possible of course we will have to place some temporary limits Wink Such is life nobody said it will be instantly "easy"

But we must understand that those "limits" are temporary in nature and IF you want them fulled faster then you are "free" to perform some research or work in this area... BUT to the benefit of everybody not just yourself...

Quote:

Quote:
Freedom must be offered for free to everybody.

then who decide the level of freedom to be given free to everybody? if everybody able to access to all levels of freedom, there would be chaos


No level. Same for everybody. If we can not offer something for everybody then we do not offer that yet. We "work" and research hard in order to be able to offer that to everybody...

Why chaos? Honestly we will have to work for a while until we could benefit from this, but then why if everybody has a house and electricty and water and food ... why is this chaos?

I see it as ORDER, unity, bliss and happiness.

My guess of a problem is in reverse: everybody has the same but "some" will need some extra resources and devices and electricity in order to perform some experiments... for example for a starship to Mars.

What do we do then?

There are 2 solutions to this:

1) find a solution to offer a starship to everybody it might take a while but it is the only perfect solution

2) temporary grant for some people only if it is a necessity.. say like it is something important for the whole race on Mars and we as a race can only make 5 star ships with the technology and resources we have now.

If we all agree then we might grant some people the use of those 5 starship. Check it out carefully but hey maybe it is something really important on Mars and we as a race can not afford to miss it!

We hope that we teach them well and they will come back Very Happy

_________________
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger,
more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage --
to move in the opposite direction."
Post 03 Nov 2007, 04:20
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
Furby



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 74
Location: Kraków, Poland
Furby
start ;
sleep ;
eat ;
learn ;
read ;
code ;
cmp 1,Nirvana
je
die
jmp start

Code or Die Bitch!
Post 03 Nov 2007, 14:43
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8902
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
hi, just read your replied and ... i am quite impress and satisfied with your answers to my mentioned points.

Quote:
Think to your body: it has billions of slaves (cells) that automatically perform work for you (now it would be a good time to say thank you to your body cells).

But you are not constantly aware of this, it is performed automatically and you are able to dedicate your conscience to "a greater purpose".

But your cells live in communism. they are all given what they need when they need it. If not you are ill, you have a problem.

Your cells do not compete each other.

this open up another view into my mind, to make a society system that function like our body system (coz, i believe, it sure wouldn't be wrong).

will reread and rethink what you have posted later, maybe i will print them out tomorrow to share with my friends.
Post 03 Nov 2007, 14:47
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
bogdan wrote:

Can you imagine the super intelligent Tesla being fired by his dumb fat ass boss? Well that is exactly what happened. And Tesla died relatively poor in a hotel in US (did not own a house) while the dumb capitalist become more rich by the use of AC current that Tesla has invented.

We all use and benefit from Tesla's AC electricity today. But he biggest benefit was for his boos and his company. And he suppressed god knows how many inventions of Tesla.
I am not sure if Edison was obese, but he was manipulative, dishonest, and a thief, perhaps that explains his close friendship with Henry Ford and other prominent capitalists of early 20th century USA. Here's a decent web site explaining the controversy over DC (Edison) versus AC (Tesla) current. http://www.aosmithmotors.com/html/motorDoctor/GreatACDCDebate.htm
Interestingly, today, there is a big push to harness Solar Energy, and accordingly, D/C current is again becoming fashionable for driving motors directly from the solar panels, without going through an Inverter, and converting to Sine Wave at 50/60 Hz.
As far as I know, Edison built a house about 80 years ago, in New Jersey, running completely on DC current.
Post 03 Nov 2007, 15:38
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Quote:
capitalists decide how to invest their wealth, rather than allowing "the state", or some committee to decide how to invest one's wealth.
How is this a bad thing? Should I not be in control of my own destiny? Enjoy the fruits of my labor which acquired this?
Quote:
Dr. Fine concluded his post by writing that he was exhausted after an arduous day at the restaurant
Not at all. I was tired from driving from my country home (not a trailer park).

If it were not for my capital, and my investment in this restaurant, the workers would have no job or would work elsewhere. If no capitalist invested in such businesses, they would be on the streets.
Quote:
Divide the money equally between all workers including yourself and pay each one that equal share. That would be fair.
If I have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on this business, do most of the work myself (the back office work), stand to lose hundreds of thousands if the business should fail, yet have to equally divide the profits with workers who know less, work less, and are not reliable, it is not worth it to me. I would make less money than I would when I was working for someone else as an engineer. So I don't create this business and 30 people don't get a job. I keep my job as an engineer. 30 people lose theirs. Where is the value in that?

Rather than read these long posts, I have productive work to do and prefer that because much profit is to be made. From such profit comes investment. Investment creates more jobs. This spirals up while the other scenario spirals down; as does this line of thinking and talk, which I thought ended with the fall of the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Post 03 Nov 2007, 15:56
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
Enjoy the fruits of my labor which acquired this?

because it is not only your labor. It is labor of you and all your employees, but only you are enjoying fruits.

Quote:
Rather than read these long posts, I have productive work to do and prefer that because much profit is to be made. From such profit comes investment. Investment creates more jobs. This spirals up while the other scenario spirals down; as does this line of thinking and talk, which I thought ended with the fall of the collapse of the Soviet Union.

You mean criticism of bad things "line of thinking"? I personally hope this will never day. Like soviet system ended because it was bad, i hope this system will too, because it is at least as barbaric as soviet system was. I don't dare to tell what should be replacement, but this system is far from ideal.
Post 03 Nov 2007, 16:29
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Dr. Fine wrote:
...the other scenario spirals down; as does this line of thinking and talk, which I thought ended with the fall of the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Really?
Did you also imagine that Assembly language programming died when M$ pulled the plug on MASM? Did you imagine that the deaths of Brahms, Wagner, and Tchaikovsky spelled the end of music? Did the art world collapse upon Claude Monet's death? Is conventional electrical engineering now depasse, due to the revolution in nanophysics?
Society evolves, and new ideas can render old ways obsolete. But some of us enjoy music, as the Viennese were fond of explaining to those who found Bruckner's music too repetitive. Some of us derive pleasure in learning about Buddhism, and thinking about alternative strategies to organize society: it helps us as we focus on our software tasks to reflect on a parallel problem in society--hence this topic on a "technical" forum....As I write these words, I am looking down at a dozen sheets of paper, a printout of some code authored by a FASM guy, completely incomprehensible, of course, because this particular chap thinks differently than I do, not only about computer programming! As I sift through his muddled thinking, and then encounter Dr. Fine's muddled thinking, I recognize some parallels! For one thing, it is useful, whether writing a program, or a spiel on a forum, to have some notion of the scope of the problem. When I read something like: The death of USSR spelled the end to the human experiment with Socialism, I realize just how ignorant some "well educated" people can be. I know of no one personally, who ever considered USSR to be either a "socialist" or "communist" country, notwithstanding that designation by many ignorant people in USA, who probably never read anything Marx, Bakunin, Fourier, Gramsci, Luxemburg, or even Jack London, had to say. Certainly when I visited USSR in the early 1970's the people did not seem to my eye to be downtrodden, unhappy, angry, frightened, or uninformed. I did not conclude from that positive experience that the USSR was a successful Socialist society, rather, it seemed to me, that the people of Russia and the other republics were simply hard working, friendly, well educated folks, who were not afraid of foreigners. I did not see more beggars, or filth, or open latrines in the street, than I observed in Paris, New York, or London, in that same era. To be completely honest, after living in Japan, the entire world seems unsanitary, disorganized, corrupt, and filled up with lazy people. I would not generalize from that observation, however, that the governmental organization employed by the Japanese represents the ideal model for everyone else. I think Dr. Fine's analysis of his restaurant business is a bit too simplistic, and could be enhanced by addressing this hypothetical scenario: The workers at this restaurant, pool their capital, purchase the restaurant, and run it as a cooperative. In that case the "profits" would all go to the cooperative, not to the workers, nor to Dr. Fine. What prevents that model is very simple: In USA, at least, Dr. Fine can obtain a loan from the bank to gain the capital needed to commence such an enterprise. The workers' cooperative on the other hand, would not be able to even talk to the bank manager, let alone procure the needed funding.
Smile
Post 03 Nov 2007, 18:43
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
To Tom,

Although Edison did also trick Tesla with some money and false promises... I was not referring to him as the "big fat ass" capitalist. I was referring to somebody else Wink .

What happened in between Edison and Tesla is a fair example how competition even between intelligent humans can be very destructive and useless... and how the guy with a bigger bank account always wins.

Yes Edison was creative but also touched "a little" by capitalism.

Besides when I say "fat ass" I am not necessarily referring to physical fat in some body area, it might be an euphemism for an big bank account and a lot of slaves working for somebody.

For all I know this kind of human can be thin in his body although usually they are fat.

Here is the quote:
Quote:

That left Tesla at the mercy of his financier, J.P. Morgan, who literally pulled the plug on his vision. Morgan, at the time the prime force behind General Electric Co., may have been unnerved by Tesla's claims that the technology could transmit "unlimited power" by wireless means. The word "free" did not translate well to Morgan. Again, the money flow came to a halt.

....

Despite his accomplishments, by 1915, at age 60, Tesla was living on credit and drifting from one cheap hotel another, a victim of his own poor business decisions, underdeveloped ideas and inability to create another innovation as profound as the AC paradigm. In 1931, at the age of 75, Tesla received birthday greetings from Lee de Forest and Albert Einstein. In his later years he spent most of his time at the New York Public Library or feeding pigeons that he called- “my sincere friends".


So I was referring to the "great" capitalists "spiraling up" to the good of mankind: JP Morgan and Westinghouse...

What those "giving workers a chance" and "hard working investment guys" did with Tesla's money and inventions can be seen today in Iraq and the rest of capitalistic "spiral up" world.

For your pleasure:
http://www.frank.germano.com/nikolatesla.htm

And a quote from Tesla:
Quote:

Science is but a perversion of itself unless it has
as its ultimate goal the betterment of humanity.
—Nikola Tesla
Post 03 Nov 2007, 19:10
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
Quote:

Rather than read these long posts, I have productive work to do and prefer that because much profit is to be made. From such profit comes investment. Investment creates more jobs. This spirals up while the other scenario spirals down; as does this line of thinking and talk, which I thought ended with the fall of the collapse of the Soviet Union.


I do not think that my "line of thinking" was present and thus ended with the downfall of Soviet Union.

The main ideas I have are:
- exact eqality for all hummans
- a non-leadership society
- freedom
- individualism and creativity
- groups considered as evil

Communism was all about "grups" and reduced the freedom of individuals to the advantage of a group. Equality wa snot "exact" in the sense that an educated engineer did had "slightly" more than an non educate people washing dishes.

Communism was based on leaders. And I think exactly the reduction of freedom and bad leaders have been the main reason for communism failure.

Cuba survived exactly because it was lucky to have an intelligent leader. but that is rare. All other communist country failed exactly because of stupid leaders.

China is used to manipulate large groups of humans and has experience of thousand of years in doing this. It's leaders are not very intelligent but they have great experience and history.

I promote freedom, individualism and no leadership society in conjunction with exact equality for each and every human. Basic need filled up by automated device and machines. A no work society. A creative society. A no slavery society.


I envision that each single human must be able to stand against many without loosing ground and each human to be intelligent enough to know when it is better to help all other humans.

Each human to be able to reinvent the whole civilization if needed because of an unwanted doomsday accident.

I envision a new "Renaissance" based on computers and automation and creativity and understanding.

But we must change the society and individually each human first and technology after/later because otherwise all we do is for the benefit of "investors" like J.P Morgan

The great problem of this is that this realization must be understood by each and every human. It is not an option to remove their freedom and force it on them like old communism did for some of those ideas.

Then there will be active fight against such constructs comming from the well established capitalist organizations.

To Tom:
=========
Cooperatives will not work not only because banks will not offer the loans for such constructs...but also because whenever such thing flourishes capitalist will actively seek and destroy it.

A child does not have enough energy and immunity and strength to fight a powerful infection. And capitalism is an well established and evil infection of our world. They already have all the money, all the power and own almost everything.

Even more quite often many of us (including me) offer our creativity and energy and work to "them" because we are forced to do this for our survival.

But cooperatives can be a starting point because at start the capitalist laws can not prevent this and later on we might become more experienced in how to dodge capital bullets.

I have heard that such a construct existed in Romania during some old kings. However when the organization worked out perfectly the King simply made up a new law stating that this kind of organization is against the law and destroyed it.

Since it was a small part of the country and only a few people involved ... nobody really cared or opposed this seriously.
Post 03 Nov 2007, 21:43
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
bogdan wrote:
For your pleasure:
http://www.frank.germano.com/nikolatesla.htm
Thank you very much. Wonderful web site. Tesla has long been one of my heroes, I am so angry when I think of him alone, surrounded by poverty in his old age.....
Frank Germano wrote:
When Westinghouse found that they could not stay in business if they paid him his due of Twelve Million Dollars, Tesla tore up the contract. Tesla did this, quite simply, so people could have the benefit of financially attainable electricity. Tesla made his first million before he was 40, but gave up the royalties on his most profitable invention as a humanitarian gesture. As a result, Westinghouse remained in business (this action allowed Westinghouse and Tesla to complete their exhibit at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair, and electrify the entire exhibit area with AC power, built, designed, and installed by Tesla - a feat remarkable, even by today's standards considering the time frame allowed). This also prevented Tesla from becoming what would have at that time been - the world's first billionaire...
Post 03 Nov 2007, 22:24
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

< Last Thread | Next Thread >
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Copyright © 1999-2020, Tomasz Grysztar.

Powered by rwasa.