flat assembler
Message board for the users of flat assembler.

Index > Heap > to live means to work like bull?

Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author
Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8897
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
must life be stress in order to achieve its mean?
how would you live if you were promised to have food (basic) everyday?, shelter and basic vehicles to move? coz i see no point (and quite ill logic) to stress the life to own? possess stuffs that i couldn't take along after i die.
call me selfish, but i think one should care about his ownself before he starts cater for others.

you guys got anything to add...
Rolling Eyes
Post 27 Oct 2007, 22:58
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2914
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
It isn't an easy question because it changes. Often we need a challenge or personal struggle to drive us to our goals - this can manifest in many different forms. Is desire enough to fullfill a life? I think we would be deluded to think so. Even striving for a 'simple' life is a goal.

Mutually constructive competition should be our goal, imho. I ask myself who else profits from my choices, and does it effect anyone negatively. Owning things itself is not a problem, but does my purchasing power support the oppression of others -- that bothers me.

Some people argue that we all live off the lives of others, and I agree. But are the people I live off doing so by choice. We are sufficiently advanced to automate tasks people do not like to do, and let people work in ways they like, imho.

For example, I hear much talk about African countries and creation of economic sectors. There are choices being made which will promote particular trades for people in African countries. So, although the people will be 'free' to choose a profession, someone wants to say what is on the list of choices.

I'm more for just empowering people and letting them decide what they want to do with their life. This doesn't mean everyone has to go to college, but that helps many people discover their passion and direction in life. I doubt there is a system which is applicable to everyone.

[Oh, my Chinese astrology sign is an Ox. Very Happy ]
Post 28 Oct 2007, 00:02
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
OzzY



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 1029
Location: Everywhere
OzzY
The answer is: No! This isn't living. This is surviving in a weird and egoist world.
Capitalism made it this way.

Technology is cool. But mankind can't use it the right way. Mankind must also destroy the nature and make more money. Money is what really matters. A fucking piece of paper that can buy many deaths.

That's why human is the most dumb creature in the world. We could have lived like other animals, but we choose to be our own enemies and the enemies of the nature.

We don't work to live. We live to work.
We are slaves of our own money egoism.
Post 28 Oct 2007, 15:31
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
We are slaves of our own money egoism.

actually, we are slaves of other people's money egoism. that is what's called capitalism.

you can be sure that those "chosen few" don't have to work like bulls
Post 28 Oct 2007, 16:41
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2914
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
"Who can say there is no ego."

I always thought the ego was a mental game we play. It creates a man in a machine where there need not be, but then I guess it is just my ego talking.
Post 28 Oct 2007, 17:19
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
xanatose



Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 57
xanatose
Interesting thing of capitalism is that technology hurts more people than helps. Its the only economical system when this happens. (Comunism, Technocracy, etc doesn't have this deffect).

Technology helps doing task faster, and with less resources. Ideally that would mean less hours of work and same amount of employees. And people could spend more time with their families and following their dreams.

But in capitalism, there is the Capitalist. A parasite that eats and grows not by its own work, but by the work of others.

Because is convenient to this parasite, workers are layoff. And the one that remains work the same ours, in a more complex enviroment. And studying, on their own time, how to avoid beein obsolete. While at the same time hoping that next year they dont invent a machine that can do their work easier (because that would mean more layoffs).

This also gives the problem that more time is spend in work, than with family. People wonder why youngsters end with drugs and other antisocial behaviours. Well, since you are spending more time at work, (including studying, investigating, etc off work), and after this you are tired and want to get entertained. This means that you spend less time with your family. And less time getting to know your family.

How can they respect you if you dont know them, and they dont know you? How can they trust you if you are not there to begin with. How can you trust them if they are strangers?

If you end up in this game, eventually your life will be miserable, or you will become a capitalist yourself. Making other peoples life miserable, so yours isn't.
Post 28 Oct 2007, 17:59
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
life is like that
why??
simply because!!
why do we always do new things?
is this world really bad??
or just it becomes more and more??
my opinion is that only one "thing" knows the reason of a so shitty humanity, god, allah, dieu, universe
capitalism is like a ratio , always here but in different proportions
always existed, because always there was people who what to make work others
now, capitalism ratio is ~ 90%
like it always was in the past
so it's not a ratio
it'a a constant

we are bulls, if anybody is disagree, he just have to look by himself in the common mortal human life.
Post 28 Oct 2007, 18:13
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
and what do you do against this?
certainly nothing
you don't have the conscience of the preciousness of your life
but they have conscience for you
and exploit you
you need to fight every days
do you need to fight and be kicked to understand the misery of this state of things?
responce is yes
in ghettos, they have conscience of the preciousness of their lives because they need to fight every days to survive
and they don't let the capitalists decide for them
probably we all need a MW 3?
to wake up!!!


Last edited by edfed on 28 Oct 2007, 21:30; edited 1 time in total
Post 28 Oct 2007, 18:18
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
all these thing are not for mans who believe only in power of money, only believing in power of science

why does this world exists? why does the universe exists? why are we alive?

no science, no money can explain this
I
money is just the energy of humanity
use it like a good energy and it will permit to do great things
use it like a vital fluid and you'll obtain the world like it is now!!!!


Last edited by edfed on 28 Oct 2007, 21:29; edited 2 times in total
Post 28 Oct 2007, 18:33
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
edfed: come on, don't spam so much... especially try not to start religion flamewar here, you can make separate thread about it...
Post 28 Oct 2007, 20:10
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
religion????????????????
spam?????????????????
for me it's just expression of my mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post 28 Oct 2007, 21:08
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
edfed: but why do you need to express it three time in a row? I think it would be better to think 3 times, and formulate text once to express all you want in a short and readable manner.

about religion: you can search board for old discussions about religion. Pulling that out usually means some few-page flamewar is gonna start, so we prefer not to do it in threads, that aren't focused on religion directly.
Post 28 Oct 2007, 21:55
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
i am not interrested by religion
just their effects are in my focus
there is never one manner to think
and it's impossible for my brain to explain simply these kinds of things
Post 28 Oct 2007, 22:06
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
I thing readability of your text could still be improved. Good way is to reread your post, after you finish it, before posting. But nevermind... back to topic:

Quote:
capitalism is like a ratio , always here but in different proportions
always existed, because always there was people who what to make work others
now, capitalism ratio is ~ 90%
like it always was in the past
so it's not a ratio
it'a a constant

Then you are using word "capitalism" for something completely different than everybody else. Of course there always was some "ratio" of how badly some people profited on other's work. But ways how they did this were different, and "capitalism" is name for one of these ways.

Quote:
do you need to fight and be kicked to understand the misery of this state of things?
responce is yes

i don't quite agree. usually, people who did best analysis of situation were those who were living quite good lives. to understand your situation, you need good education and lot of time. People who are in worst situation simply don't have this, and most people in ghettos have no idea how the "chosen ones" profit on them.
Post 28 Oct 2007, 22:33
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
of course, good life like sarkozy or bush should have is subject to increase the reason.
but they don't understand anything about the real common mortal life and they try to manage the world from their chairs, like if it was a chess game.
they cannot understand the pleasure that somebodies could have to make things that are forbiden by THE LAW.
like funny hacking, free access to knowledge, see prostitutes, take drugs, hidden working, living in forest like animals, drinking on the street, be polygamist, and soon; being a young people.

capitalism, in my opinion , is one of the names for the same thing:
slavery, communism, socialism, inquisition,

it's only a different way to play with the "politic" power
probably, certainly not the truth, who am i to say the real truth?
i don't know anything about politic mechanisms but i can say it is not natural

i know the politicians are not the worst personns, it's the entire system the guilty, money, always money, inflation, property, .... it's like a computer, all is a part of the problem.

why adam says eve eat the apple?
why eve says it's the snake?
is the mirror too hard to see?
can we, someday,all assume our guiltyness?
without accusing somebody else?
and accept our lives like they are? bull worker or not
Post 29 Oct 2007, 00:06
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Above, someone said we should be like the animals. What, chase after each other, eat their young, kill each other?

Capitalism is the same as slavery? Communism? Even under communism, didn't people have to work for somebody? We all see how that worked out, too.

In every government there is corruption. In every society there is corruption. It's how the people adjust to this corruption that is important. In some countries, you get what you get. In other countries, you can change the leaders when you vote.

I will never understand why such topics are allowed on a technical forum.
Post 29 Oct 2007, 01:28
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
capitalism, in my opinion , is one of the names for the same thing: slavery, communism, socialism, inquisition,

but your opinion fortunatelly doesn't have no effect on what 'capitalism' really means. it is pretty well defined term. It is some specific econoical order of society. Apparently, what you percieve to be meant by term "capitalism" is different from what it really is. "Capitalism" isn't loose discutable term like "goodness" or "oppression".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

Quote:
it's only a different way to play with the "politic" power

i fully agree with that.


drhowarddrfine wrote:
Even under communism, didn't people have to work for somebody?

In the theory, no. They shoud have all shared product of their work, and I would say (just my opinion) they did. Problem with it's economy was that people working for themselves are (surprisingly) less effective workers, because there is no one eager to "push" others to do things efficiently and properly. Read Perestroika: New Thinking by Mikhail Gorbachev to learn more how communists percieved their own problems. He started rebuilding (perestorika in russian) of socialism (called "communism" in USA) in 1985, effectively it was democratization of socialism, which eventually caused fall of socialistic block.

Of course there were far more serious problem for and with socialism than economy.

Quote:
I will never understand why such topics are allowed on a technical forum.

because we are community of people, we have opinions on other things besides technical stuff, and we want to discuss things with each other.
Post 29 Oct 2007, 02:57
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
drhowarddrfine wrote:

Capitalism is the same as slavery?


YES it is the same as slavery but more "refined". Slaves think they are "free". This makes for better productivity and less costs.

drhowarddrfine wrote:

Communism? Even under communism, didn't people have to work for somebody?


I am sorry to inform you but from my experience NO.

Under communism you did NOT work for somebody, you worked for humanity for your country but never for somebody...

drhowarddrfine wrote:

We all see how that worked out, too.


From my experience it was working very good...

Everybody had a house, almost everybody had a car, everybody had a job, and you could leave goods and food on the steet and nobody ever considered stealing them... there was no need.

Until people that could not have "more stuff" started to dislike it. You could not have 2 houses or 2 machines or two much anything. Of course there were ways to try and circumvent this but it was not legal and it made you very "unsecured". Instead in capitalism you can have as much as you want and everybody thought THEY will have more and others will have less...

So with a little help from capitalism externally plus CIA and internally from people that wanted "more stuff" the "communism" was destroyed.

Besides it was not really communism, just the "advertisement" of it. You do not really think Saddam was ""democratic" do you? In the same way it was a tirany with "communism" used as advertisement... but even so it was much more human than capitalism.

Quote:

In every government there is corruption. In every society there is corruption.


It is because capitalism promotes this. Capitalism is the lowest form of "evolution" ground zero ie NO EVOLUTION whatsoever. It works because there is no lower form of organization other than chaos. It works because animals are greedy and it tricks you into thinking you deserve more than others.

Corruption is there because having money make you successful automatically. It does not matter on what path you obtained them (unless somebody can prove illegal stuff) once you reached there you are done and since they can not prove everybody then crime does pay...big time ... only the fouls (not in the "club") get cough.

But they already have everything, own everything, buyed everybody that counts. You stand no chance.

That guy is dreaming: every thing you do is used by the masters.

You do something against law? well it is a reason to maintain police and army in place ie. more taxes more control.

You hack? Hahha a reason for more security and control, they make more money (trust me I work here). Every hacker is a gold mine...stupid but a gold mine... please hack more you **** ...

You use prostitutes... good because you will need medicine and they own medical factory and they own prostitutes and you pay "them" not the poor girl. Is the girls "clean"? Well that is what you think because new viruses are invented every day.

Anything you do you do it for your master that owns you.

The only thing they do not like is when you really understand...

But vid is right here. In order to understand you need time and money if you are poor you stand no chance of understanding and if you are rich and ambitious then you are already lost for humanity.

drhowarddrfine wrote:

It's how the people adjust to this corruption that is important. In some countries, you get what you get. In other countries, you can change the leaders when you vote.


Leaders are puppets, actors that stand no importance. Left or right wing, communists, socialists, moderate or right wing extremists they all respond to the very same masters. Leaders are put in office just to give you the impression that you have a choice.

You have no choice they own you.

drhowarddrfine wrote:

I will never understand why such topics are allowed on a technical forum.


Well, maybe because without such understandings you could "hack" and dream that you do "a good thing" against masters?

Maybe that an ASM guided missile is "so much better" than a "bloated C++" guided missile at killing an extra few "terrorists" or innocents children in a school that is "considered" a weapons facility?

Maybe because once you deeply understand technology people just start to have a glimpse of understanding where we "stand" ?

Maybe we can develop ASM laser guided missiles to guide bananas directly into the hungry mouth of poor peoples.

Maybe we need to develop and artificial intelligence program to teach us that every human, not one excluded, every human does deserve to have exactly the same material standard and no human deserves more than another...

Maybe if nobody hacks, if nobody steals, if nobody considers he or she deserves more that the other people then maybe leaders and governments and rich people will stop to exist...

Maybe if everybody will consider rich people with disgust, polite but disgusted, not wanting to help them not wanting to live near them, no friendship, not talking with them if it is not necessary... simply a cold polite and internal disgust for such abominations...

If you consider "success" and incredible error...

Maybe if everybody understands that creating another children simply means creating yet another slave of even worst an slave master ...

Who can tell?

_________________
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger,
more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage --
to move in the opposite direction."
Post 29 Oct 2007, 03:31
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
YES it is the same as slavery but more "refined". Slaves think they are "free".

do not forget that slaves accepted their slavery as normal state of society, just like today's workers do. They though "oh shit, i am slave i have limited rights and more duties than masters", we think "oh shit, i have to work, i have limited rights and More duty than bussinesmen". I don't see any principal difference.

Quote:
It is because capitalism promotes this. Capitalism is the lowest form of "evolution" ground zero ie NO EVOLUTION whatsoever. It works because there is no lower form of organization other than chaos. It works because animals are greedy and it tricks you into thinking you deserve more than others.

I cannot agree with you on this point. Would you say same thing when capitalism was taking over feudalism? Capitalism was superb, innovative thing. I would say that it allowed to take advantage of people in much more human way. yeah, it is still "rule of stronger" but there was significant advance of mankind needed before capitalism could be established, certainly not without any evolution.

I am afraid I won't live long enough to see next stage of society, whatever it will be Sad

Quote:
Leaders are puppets, actors that stand no importance. Left or right wing, communists, socialists, moderate or right wing extremists they all respond to the very same masters. Leaders are put in office just to give you the impression that you have a choice.

you would have to back this up with some evidence. Yes, leaders very often aren't the ones who are really in charge, and yes, they make people feel more free. But i doubt ALL sides and parties are controlled. As I percieve it, control is done via economical and military measures, and via massmedia on people, so there is no need to try to control all parties - only those that have serious chances of success.

And even this is IMHO not always possible, as showcased by military campaigns against countries where "wrong party" won the elections.
Post 29 Oct 2007, 04:12
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
xanatose



Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 57
xanatose
vid wrote:

Quote:
It is because capitalism promotes this. Capitalism is the lowest form of "evolution" ground zero ie NO EVOLUTION whatsoever. It works because there is no lower form of organization other than chaos. It works because animals are greedy and it tricks you into thinking you deserve more than others.

I cannot agree with you on this point. Would you say same thing when capitalism was taking over feudalism? Capitalism was superb, innovative thing. I would say that it allowed to take advantage of people in much more human way. yeah, it is still "rule of stronger" but there was significant advance of mankind needed before capitalism could be established, certainly not without any evolution.


What makes a feudal state, but a feudal Lord telling you what you can or not do. Whats the difference of if and a police state? Capitalism is getting back into a feudal state, just a more intelligent one where you use the police. Because of comunications, the Church cannot longer tell people what to think. (Well, at least most people). Thus they use the media. You can be an honest man, you can protest. And later, they could arrest you for terrorism. Deport you to a secret dungeon, without right of attourney. This happens know in the USA. Isn't this the same power kings use to have? Isnt noblity beeing simply replace by billionares? Because this guys have the same power has the nobles once had.

The only thing that has kept this from happening is the separation between goverments. But this separation is getting weaker and weaker, while corporate power get stronger. Its better to have many super powers than one. Didn't you notice that after the fall of the Soviet Union, working conditions have gone worse and worse all over the world? Dont be surprised if one day you awake to find unions abolished, because of security.

BTW: IMO, the only way to combat this is by making more and more powerfull cooperatives, where the workers are the owners and have a say into the company future. Its the only thing that can compete with corporations on todays savage capitalism.
Post 29 Oct 2007, 06:39
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

< Last Thread | Next Thread >
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Copyright © 1999-2020, Tomasz Grysztar.

Powered by rwasa.