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cmdtower



Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 30
Location: San Diego, CA
cmdtower
Beta 1.00 is ready! Try it out people and lets me know what you think.

Download here:
http://www.geocities.com/cmdtower

Cheers,
CMD

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Post 01 Oct 2007, 10:46
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
some things:

- when saving and no extension is typed, use ".asm" automatically
- some way to add new file to project, without having to save it and add to project from disk
- "fasm include directory" should be "list of additional include directories", etc...
- 100 max compilation passess is too much. most of times 10 should be enough
- how can you have more working directories? there is only one.
- i don't understand what "merge with FASM include directory" does in Project settings
- default indentation size should be 8.
- think about "directory" support in project file list
- the build error message you print is incomplete. The line which caused problem is not displayed, and it is not highlighted in editor too. I think easiest way to intercept FASM error messages should be redirecting STDERR to yourself.
- in editor options -> display, you should imho switch Font windows, and window which selects syntax element (plaintext, label). The syntax element window is the main thing here, so it should be top left, where font window is.
- what is "fasm intrinsics"? Use "directives" or "keywords" [url="http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=4740"]check this [/url]
- add some customizable list (or better, two lists) of keywords, and color settings for them. This allows to highlight everyone's macros, or display them as instruction. Or maybe all lists that hold FASM keywords could be customizable...

So much for now. Your IDE looks very promising, keep up good job, and eventually people will start to use it
Post 01 Oct 2007, 11:49
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cmdtower



Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 30
Location: San Diego, CA
cmdtower
Cool! Thanks for your input, Vid!

Let me clarify, with some answers to your observations and "things". Some of my design choices were simplistic. I wanted a firm base to build upon.

1. .fpr for projects is automatically amended when saved. Aside from that, I figured people would edit all kinds of text files, not just .asm files.

2. You can add any existing file to the current project at anytime. You don't have to save anything beforehand. This is expected.

3. We are all victims of existing IDE paradigms. Myself included. I deviated. By clicking the merge checkbox in the project tab, you essentially merge the two (which may not be what everyone wants to do), (IE Fasm include directory), and project include/working directories. It does the same thing. Smile

4. If you look inside Fasm.asm you'll see that 100 is the default. I just made it the default. Thats a non issue, as it's the max, not doable number of passes.

5. This is a misnomer on my part. I was a loss for words. This is simply a collections of paths, that are 1) multiple include directories when compiling, or 2) the environment variables (such as systemroot, etc) when running the program in the IDE. Good point.

6. See previous comment.

7. I have thought about directory/folder support, including recursion! This is a big to do. But seriously, this is asm programming. I've had big projects with both it as well as C/C++ and my experience is different with both.

8. The build message is minimalistic. See "Goals" in About menu (information). I hate bloat, and prefer powerful simplicity. There should have been 1+ lines displayed as a result of nested errors, including file, etc. Clicking on them takes you to specific error in a file. As far as highlighting, you are correct - this is a todo. Thanks.

9. I'll study your suggestion carefully. Personally I like it the way it is.

10. Fasm Intrinsics is a catch all for directives/keywords, non x86 mnemonics. This will be further divided in future.

11. Macros specific highlighting is not support. This is on my todo list. I've thought about the last sentence you made of this point.

Again, thanks for your comments. What did you like about it? (specifically)

Cheers,
CMD
Post 01 Oct 2007, 13:06
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
cmdtower: next time please quote my points when reacting on them. i don't always know which your sentence reacts to which my point Smile

Quote:
I have thought about directory/folder support, including recursion! This is a big to do. But seriously, this is asm programming. I've had big projects with both it as well as C/C++ and my experience is different with both.

Every big assembly project i ever saw had sources structured into directories. This is a must-have.

Quote:
Fasm Intrinsics is a catch all for directives/keywords, non x86 mnemonics. This will be further divided in future.

but you are first one ever to use this name for them, and i don't think this is the best idea. Intrinsics is something different. I think "keyword" would be understandable by everyone.

Basically, i liked all that is done. In short time i tried it, i didn't find anything serious which would bother me. But lot of work still should be done.
Post 01 Oct 2007, 14:35
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Mac2004



Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 313
Mac2004
cmdtower: Could you please reconsider main menu color choices (Blue text on black)? The text is not very visible....

regards,
Mac2004
Post 01 Oct 2007, 21:01
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Enko



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Mar del Plata
Enko
Mac2004 wrote:
cmdtower: Could you please reconsider main menu color choices (Blue text on black)? The text is not very visible....

regards,
Mac2004

Are you using Vista or a black Theme for XP?
(with win classical style its DarkBlue on grey)
Post 01 Oct 2007, 21:16
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cmdtower



Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 30
Location: San Diego, CA
cmdtower
vid wrote:
cmdtower: next time please quote my points when reacting on them. i don't always know which your sentence reacts to which my point


Like this?! Cool

vid wrote:
Every big assembly project i ever saw had sources structured into directories. This is a must-have.


Absolutely. Do you have some specific ideas? I tried to emulate Visual Studio 6 in style. It can bring in files from anywhere, without requiring it to belong to a specific set of directories. However, they are internally managed according to their absolute paths, not relative paths. I hope to fix that.
A tree like structure for nesting files according to their position in a directory is a todo.

vid wrote:
but you are first one ever to use this name for them, and i don't think this is the best idea. Intrinsics is something different. I think "keyword" would be understandable by everyone.


Excellent point. Doh! I shall implement your suggestion. Makes sense for people who use Fasm. I've written specialized C compilers (not really IDEs) for embedded devices. At my work we use alot of terms you may have not heard before. I use some non released tools directly from Intel, so that's probably where I got the lingo.

Fasm Keywords are terms such as "dd", "db", "format" or "macro". But not the macro labels themselves, they are unfortunately treated as 'plaintext' for now. This may already be apparent to you guys.

vid wrote:
Basically, i liked all that is done. In short time i tried it, i didn't find anything serious which would bother me. But lot of work still should be done.


Great! My first goal is to make sure it's fairly stable. It's very immature I know. But it needs to have a solid foundation to start from. And yes, there's alot of work that needs to be done.

mac2004 wrote:
cmdtower: Could you please reconsider main menu color choices (Blue text on black)? The text is not very visible....

Mac2004: Can you please send me a screenshot. I truly apologize. It looks fine on my end. lol. I have no way of testing it on Vista. I work for a billion dollar company, and we don't use Vista there either!

The right blank panel that you see now, is where I plan to put some specialized design tools that will make ManaIDE stand out from the other Asm editors.

FYI: Some controls (such as checkboxes, edit fields, etc) have tooltips for more information.

Todo: Next week, I'll be releasing 1.01. It'll incorporate external tool configuration and search capabilities (a real must have for any editor). I may also include a "Tips of the day" dialog so further explain and/or help the new user.

Happy Regards,
CMD
Post 02 Oct 2007, 00:20
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
Absolutely. Do you have some specific ideas? I tried to emulate Visual Studio 6 in style. It can bring in files from anywhere, without requiring it to belong to a specific set of directories. However, they are internally managed according to their absolute paths, not relative paths. I hope to fix that.
A tree like structure for nesting files according to their position in a directory is a todo.

basically, there are two approaches: one is to simply use relative position from some "source root" directory, and another is to make your own tree, regardless of where on disk files are stored.

Another problem comes with project compilation: someone may want to compile files separately and later link, someone may just include them all into single source and compile directly to executable. Good IDE should support both ... somehow...

and when someone wants to use mix of these ... uh oh Smile
Post 02 Oct 2007, 00:39
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cmdtower



Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 30
Location: San Diego, CA
cmdtower
vid wrote:

Another problem comes with project compilation: someone may want to compile files separately and later link, someone may just include them all into single source and compile directly to executable. Good IDE should support both ... somehow...


That's right. But, developing applications in Fasm is really not the same as with C. Linking is non issue, though some people may have specific needs to do just that. The current paradigm in ManaIDE assumes simple assemble to .exe/.dll/.bin.

Before releasing beta 1.00, I was able to configure a new project (w/ fasm.asm), save, insert files, etc in less than 15 seconds (I knew what I was doing), there were no extra include directories needed. Compile it in less than 1 second.

I did the same with the MenuetOS kernel (a fairly large project). Less 1 Second. Of course it can't run in Windows.

I just build FreshIDE from its source. I configured to their include directory, and the latest fasm.exe. That took a little longer to compile, depending how it was configured (set it to their source/Fasm (faster), not fresh/include (slower)). Also, that project has issues. The executable built fine, but it crashed on launch. I discovered they expect "Fresh.ini" to be resident. Once I copied that over and modified it. Boom it worked. It had produced a bunch of errors initially. I followed them from the error list successfully.

This experience made me realize that a cancel compile button/command is gonna be needed. And perhaps an additional field for setting environments when doing run testing from within ManaIDE.

I've got a busy schedule at work this week. Expect 1.01 to be release with some additions this coming weekend.

Ultimately I am very satisfied with the thing.

Cheers,
CMD
Post 02 Oct 2007, 04:52
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
That's right. But, developing applications in Fasm is really not the same as with C. Linking is non issue, though some people may have specific needs to do just that.

As long as you use only FASM, it is okay this way, but in many cases this is not enough. For example mixed-language project, or just simple plain using some library written in different language (like most are).

But yeah, thinking of some good way to provide both ways in IDE may be problem...
Post 02 Oct 2007, 10:45
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cmdtower



Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 30
Location: San Diego, CA
cmdtower
Enko wrote:

cmdtower: Could you please reconsider main menu color choices (Blue text on black)? The text is not very visible....


Enko, I've made some adjustments in the code. You are correct it was set to Navy blue. It is now set to windows menu text color (which for most would be black, which is fine). Sorry about that.

CMD
Post 02 Oct 2007, 11:19
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Mac2004



Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 313
Mac2004
Quote:

Are you using Vista or a black Theme for XP?


Enko: I'am using WinME

cmdtower: I guess you managed to duplicate the problem and it seems to be fixed. Great Smile

regards,
Mac2004
Post 02 Oct 2007, 16:55
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cmdtower



Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 30
Location: San Diego, CA
cmdtower
The next release is just about ready. This is fun. Razz You should notice a significant improvement on a number fronts with editor. Me happy.

- Easy builtin screenshot capability. Very useful for obvious reasons.
- Can add external exes to the tools menu; simple but yet so useful.
- Over all revamping of many dialogs.
- Better icons
- Misc bug fixes
- A more mature compile/assemble process. IE can now cancel compiles, etc. More details.
- A new versioning scheme
- A better formatted readme on preinstall (and in about dialog).
- other things, I can't recall at the moment.. Rolling Eyes

I have a good development plan for the next two versions after that. Hopefully with this, ManaIDE can get some press.

Cheers,
CMD

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Post 05 Oct 2007, 03:46
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Enko



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Mar del Plata
Enko
Sounds great. Waiting the new Release.
Quote:

Can add external exes to the tools menu; simple but yet so useful.

Is it possible to pass parameters and the path of the current file to the added exe?
Post 05 Oct 2007, 19:58
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cmdtower



Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 30
Location: San Diego, CA
cmdtower
Enko wrote:
Is it possible to pass parameters and the path of the current file to the added exe?


Great question! The answer is yes!

~CMD
Post 06 Oct 2007, 01:42
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polygon7



Joined: 14 Aug 2003
Posts: 62
Location: Poznan, Poland
polygon7
Hi,
could you add some screenshots of your IDE to your website?

_________________
best regards
p7
Post 06 Oct 2007, 18:59
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
cmdtower wrote:
I sent Vid (he asked Very Happy) a prebeta for testing and preliminary eval.
-CMD


Twisted Evil I guess that would make him the master beta tester? Laughing
Post 07 Oct 2007, 04:12
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lehox



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 16
lehox
Hello.
I'm currently testing ManaIDE on Linux (using Wine)
Here is a screenshot Image
Post 07 Oct 2007, 11:28
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cmdtower



Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 30
Location: San Diego, CA
cmdtower
rugxulo wrote:
I guess that would make him the master beta tester? Laughing


Lol. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
I'm currently testing ManaIDE on Linux (using Wine)


Wow. Very nice. I'm impressed. Smile

UPDATE: The next version will be released TOMORROW (9th, PST). There has been a delay on account of some unexpected bugs, and last minute changes.
With that said, I'll have another announcement, which I think you all will definitely appreciate.

Cheers,
CMD

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Post 09 Oct 2007, 06:34
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cmdtower



Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 30
Location: San Diego, CA
cmdtower
New URL:

http://www.manaedit.org/

Need I say more?

Check out the new release (a1).

I do hope you enjoy. Wink

With that said, I probably won't leave many more replies specific to this posting, as ManaIDE has it's own forum now. However, I'll continue to post in other forums here on flatassembler.net when it's Fasm specific.

This should help expand the Fasm community even further.

~CMD

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Post 10 Oct 2007, 05:55
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