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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
just kinda pondering,
if anyone of u here willing to die for something?
Post 03 Aug 2007, 19:40
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
or maybe too boring with world life, time to get something else?
Post 03 Aug 2007, 19:41
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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Maverick
I'd be willing to die for.. staying alive!
Post 04 Aug 2007, 05:23
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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MHajduk
sleepsleep wrote:
just kinda pondering,
if anyone of u here willing to die for something?

or maybe too boring with world life, time to get something else?
Maybe I don't understand well what you wrote, but I'm afraid about you. Do you have any problems in your life? If yes, then describe it here. Maybe someone of us could help you. Very Happy
Post 04 Aug 2007, 08:32
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
yo yo,
no problem, juz coz an elder friend (around 55) recently quit all his job, tuition, etc and go for community services. somehow maybe there is something wrong with current life(style) ? idk, it seems boring whne you are in the state of clear mind, of course, everything is just depend on the state of mind, if u want it fun, it would be fun.

problme is, we want something more each day and somehow there is a limit in material to provide more and more value for us. so we want something else, something that beyond.
eg.
having contact with alien? lol, angels, jinny, or etc.
and it seems like to die, is the sort of only way to experience something new.
Post 04 Aug 2007, 10:02
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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Location: usa
tom tobias
MHajduk wrote:
...but I'm afraid about you....
yeah, me too. I fear, maybe completely INCORRECTLY, Islam. Not just the garbage in the Koran, I fear people who believe the garbage, people who believe that to kill Salman Rushdie is to perform a service to humanity "fatwa".
http://www.contemporarywriters.com/authors/?p=auth87
I fear people who believe that Denmark should be ostracized for permitting freedom of the press. http://www.di2.nu/files/Muhammed_Cartoons_Jyllands_Posten.html
I fear people who would kill other muslims by suicide bombs, as has happened for a long time, now. http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0617/p07s01-wome.html
I confess to being a bigot, and an atheist, and someone who despises all religions, with especial hatred of judaism and its two orphans: christianity and islam. The world is full of many people, true believers, willing to DIE, and to murder, and to maim, and cripple, because THEY KNOW THE TRUTH, and the rest of us, do not.
sleepsleep wrote:
....it seems like to die, is the sort of only way to experience something new.
Do you suppose it is proper to kill someone, so that they too have the opportunity to "experience something new" ???? Do you mistakenly imagine that dead objects experience anything? Without consciousness, one can not experience pain, suffering, visual images, or even hallucinations. This is the basis for anesthesia, even in Malaysia, one uses anesthetics to render the person "dead" so that they will not feel the pain. Why don't they feel the pain of the knife? Dead people, or anesthetized people, DON'T FEEL ANYTHING.
Post 04 Aug 2007, 11:54
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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MHajduk
sleepsleep wrote:
... and it seems like to die, is the sort of only way to experience something new.
No. I think that the best way to experience something new is to meet other people (doesn't matter, in real life or internet). Very Happy If you find someone interesting, you can even rise from the "psychical dead". We have very much to do in this world. Very Happy
Post 04 Aug 2007, 12:14
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:

No. I think that the best way to experience something new is to meet other people (doesn't matter, in real life or internet).

quite true Smile

Quote:

Do you suppose it is proper to kill someone, so that they too have the opportunity to "experience something new" ???? Do you mistakenly imagine that dead objects experience anything?

no, i believe life is unique and should be treasured, cherished and protected.
Post 04 Aug 2007, 13:14
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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Maverick
The best way to experience something new is getting an FPGA board like e.g. this one. Very Happy (no, I don't own shares of Altera Corp., unfortunately that is Very Happy ).
Post 04 Aug 2007, 13:22
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
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DustWolf
Just a curious enough question: Have you ever seen a person that you know, of your age die a violent death in front of you?

Likely not and neither have I. But I have been given the chance to experience the emotions involved with it nontheless. Thus I come to conclude very strongly that dieing / killing is not premissible at all. Just think about that you'd experience it every time you heard / saw somebody die on the media?

Well willing to die for something, is a more personal question than that. Other than the issue with people dieing... I believe there is more to be done in life than in death. Wink
Post 04 Aug 2007, 14:20
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
just watched discovery channel hiroshima
http://www.discoverychannel.com.au/ww2/atomicbomb/ended_war/index.shtml

actually, how to justify all this history, maybe tom could share me some of his pov?
Post 05 Aug 2007, 15:00
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Maverick



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Maverick
And what about what the USA/UK governments and military have done to Dresda? That was worse than a nuke, and an even more unjustified crime of war. I, unlike Mr. Berlusconi, am not proud of belonging to the so called "superior western culture".
Post 06 Aug 2007, 06:15
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
sleepsleep wrote:
...actually, how to justify all this history, ...

http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=6669&start=0
Maverick wrote:
...what the USA/UK governments and military have done to Dresda?
And Leipzig, Berlin, Hamburg, Koln, Frankfurt, et al. Yes, the point is well made: The English language countries demonstrated a zeal for killing unarmed civilian bystanders equal to that of any "terrorist" group. The USA was also willing to kill its own soldiers held prisoner in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Combining Maverick's salient comment about Dresden with sleepsleep's query about Hiroshima/Nagasaki, one ought to reiterate that more people, especially unarmed women and children, not soldiers, died in the fire bombings of Tokyo and Osaka, than the nuclear blasts of Hiroshima/Nagasaki.
Crying or Very sad
Post 06 Aug 2007, 11:16
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HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
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Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
To add a little historical perspective, I don't think it's fair to proscribe atrocities to western cultures only.
Link
A quick review of this list leads me to conclude this is a sad fact of the human condition, not any one political/cultural entity alone.

sleepsleep, to answer your original question, i would die to save my children.
Post 06 Aug 2007, 11:49
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
HyperVista wrote:
...I don't think it's fair to proscribe atrocities to western cultures only.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres#State-sponsored_genocide
No, of course, you are correct, I wrote too ambiguously. Thanks for your correction.
The reference is interesting. I learned from it. It is far superior to anything I could put together. However, it does have some shortcomings, and some omissions of significance, particularly regarding the massacres of aboriginal peoples of North, Central, and South America by the European invaders.
With regard to Maverick's note about Dresden, and sleepsleep's query about Hiroshima, I was surprised at the paucity of information at that otherwise useful and interesting link, concerning the second world war....Here's one comment I found somewhat bemusing:
Hypervista's Wikipedia source wrote:

Manila is razed, making it the 2nd most devastated city in World War II after Warsaw.

I have no idea what Manilla looked like BEFORE the conflict, and little understanding of what remained following the Japanese expulsion, but, I doubt that the Japanese soldiers left voluntarily, which would have implied house to house combat, as occurred elsewhere in the pacific theatre, with consequent horrific loss of both innocent lives and centuries old architecture. That is quite a different scenario from the situation in Tokyo, where nearly the entire city, (except for the emperor's private residence, and the lovely Shinjuku gyoen) was converted to dust and ashes, NOT in fighting, but in revenge--slaughtering hundreds of thousands of unarmed elders, women, and children, PRECISELY the course of action forseen by Japan's military commanders, urging their soldiers, in Manila and elsewhere in the Philippines, to fight to the last breath, "to protect the homeland from the alien invaders". The main point about Hiroshima/Nagasaki, AND the fire bombings of Dresden, Tokyo, et al, is that this killing was NOT PERFORMED for military reasons, but for political reasons. The vast majority of casualties in both Germany and Japan in these atrocities of 1945, were unarmed civilians, 99% of whom had absolutely nothing to do with the horrific genocide committed by the military branches of both countries in the preceding decades (half a century for the Imperial Japanese Army's occupation of Korea and Northeastern China.)
Post 06 Aug 2007, 12:37
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Maverick



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Maverick
HyperVista wrote:
To add a little historical perspective, I don't think it's fair to proscribe atrocities to western cultures only.

Western cultures aren't the only ones guilty of atrocities - for sure - but they're the only ones guilty of the presumption of not committing such crimes, when we've demonstrated bestiality beyond all other cultures (yes, probably because we had technologically superior means to achieve that, I agree that every culture has committed atrocities without too much refrain now or then).

However, presumption is perhaps the worst form of ignorance, expecially when coming from a culture which, at least scientifically, technologically and artistically, was/is quite developed. That's why it's harder to forgive Dresden/Hiroshima/Jews/Armenian massacres, etc.. than e.g. Spartans vs Athenians (which were quite developed too, though) or to make another example, anonymous TribeA vs anonymous TribeB.

It's harder to understand why OUR culture, which has certainly a lot of positive aspects, has killed millions in the blink of a eye, even just few tens of years ago (and what about what French did to Algerians?). When I hear Mr. Berlusconi talk about the superiority of our culture my balls freeze.. even worse because it's in the context of defending the cause of this stupid Iraqi war with civilian massacres, etc.. and we're in 2007 now. Can't we think about something else than using our weapons of mass destruction when we can't find theirs (that, by coincidence, WE sold them some years before)?

I can't go to vote anymore, even if I try not to inhale. Politics suck IMO (expecially in Italy with corruption worse than a sixth world country). Democracy is a nice illusion.. I don't believe in that anymore, at least not where there're big interests in play.

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 06 Aug 2007, 13:03
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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Maverick
Let away that Dresden was a "hospital" city, hosting ~ one million of refugees, that was its only relevance (apart from the beautiful monuments, museeums, etc..). The town not only didn't have ANY military installations, it didn't EVEN have any anti-air craft artillery, thus any defenses.

It was though that nobody would ever attack it, because it would have been simply a senseless slaughter of innocents, refugees, women, children, all harmless and undefended. But that sadist* beast of Churchill (doesn't he look like a swine? without offence to the animals) thought it was perfect for his thirst of blood and the USA government (which has always been more practical) probably thought it was a very effective message to the USSR, to show what the western allies could do to them next war, to scare/impress them (at the expense of unharmed women and children). Also Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for the USA government, were probably more a message to the USSR than anything else.

Message to which Stalin shortly after replied with the first hidrogen nuke.. probably it was the exaggerate power of those new weapons that saved us (at least for now) from a World War III.

As paradoxical as it may seem, someway I miss the Cold War, there was a balance that lead to more peace than we see today. And, since we're in a hi-tek forum, Cold War boosted technical competition and scientifical investments. Now we're at a stall, and there are more "small" scale wars than ever, perhaps with more combined casualties than a "blitzkrieg global thermonuclear war" (ok, exaggerating a bit now).

That's why I want Putin to bring back the USSR. Very Happy

GO, PUTIN GO!!

Damn, if the USSR didn't collapse we human monkeys probably would have already put a foot in Mars soil. Very Happy

Instead they all prefer Iraqi (s)oil now, argh.

---

* at the Conference of Yalta, Churchill is known to have told to Stalin "I've already murdered 6-7 millions of Germans until now, with some luck I will be able to kill another million before the end of the war" while smiling (translation is mine, do not use my text as original quote, it's english -> italian -> english, I will try to find some references now and report)
Post 06 Aug 2007, 13:31
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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Maverick
Ok, found a quote:

"I am not alarmed by the reduction of the population. Six million Germans have lost their lives in the war. We can expect that by the end of the war many more will be killed, and then there will be room for those expelled" (ethnically cleansed from their original homelands) – Voice of History 1944-1945. Speeches and Papers of Roosevelt, Churchill, Stalin, Chiang, Hitler and Other Leaders, p 615.
Post 06 Aug 2007, 13:37
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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Maverick
Another page about this hero:

http://members.tripod.com/~wwx2/churchil.html

(PS: by later reading it I think it was written by some fanatic though. Unfortunately I've so little free time that I cannot research, just peek at the forums now and then, but here there are a lot of cultured and knowledgeable people though who can do and do it plently better than I could ever do even if I had all the time in the universe).
Post 06 Aug 2007, 13:40
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
AFAIK naturalism (science) is worldview which has quite clean history. At least it doesn't contain urging to these bestialities in it's fundamentals, like most religions do (even though these parts are often ignored nowadays).

I can't really say what would i really have balls to die for, but i can say what i believe is worthy dying for: To sarcifice self for good of many. I can mention numerous freethinkers that risked (and often lost) their lives to promote truth.


Last edited by vid on 06 Aug 2007, 15:01; edited 1 time in total
Post 06 Aug 2007, 14:04
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