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Which is the best computer programming language?
Assembly
57%
 57%  [ 27 ]
C
10%
 10%  [ 5 ]
C++
10%
 10%  [ 5 ]
Java
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
C#
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Perl
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Python
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Ruby
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
PHP
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
JavaScript
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Visual Basic
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Pascal
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Cobol
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Fortran
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Other
14%
 14%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 47

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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
okay, sorry, you are beyond level i thought you are Wink

but still i can't keep wondering how you want to learn all these three in one year
Post 30 Jul 2007, 14:35
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0.1



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 474
Location: India
0.1
vid looks like you're considering all that comes with languages as well
like APIs or Modules or blah.
But I'm just saying that I want to learn the language syntax and
rules of there usage. I wanna learn the languages proper not the
stuff that comes bundled with them. It can be looked in a help file.
PS: Not 1 year though only 4 months and 1 day Wink

_________________
Code:
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(\
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Post 30 Jul 2007, 14:43
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
Learning just language syntax isn't learning "the language"... That, imho, includes enough of the standard libraries to be able to actually write something in the language, as well as some of the more important idioms of the language (things like RIIA and "the rule of three" in C++).
Post 30 Jul 2007, 15:05
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Picnic



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: behind the arc
Picnic
voted for Asm.
Post 09 Aug 2007, 17:13
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f14t



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 36
f14t
i find assembly best as it is a hobby programmer's best friend.
you can program any conceivable program in it, although other languages may
provide a quicker way to do that, for a hobby programmer will prefer doing all
of it on his own.
so for hobby programming assembly is best!
Post 16 Aug 2007, 10:15
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OzzY



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 1029
Location: Everywhere
OzzY
Where is D there?
Where is Tcl?

I find D to be "a better C++".
And Tcl is a much nicer scripting language than the others. Because it's easy, extensible (coding new functions in C), has a very integrated framework of GUI, sockets, regexp, etc, it's easy to deploy (tclkit) and has a great community.

The answer to the question is: The best language is the best tool for the job you're doing. I find Tcl to suit me fine on all programs, except low level stuff, where I use C or ASM.
Post 17 Aug 2007, 15:05
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f14t



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 36
f14t
Hi Ozzy!
I have no idea about Tcl but if you know Perl. Can you tell me if Tcl is or Perl is better?
Post 18 Aug 2007, 12:32
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OzzY



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 1029
Location: Everywhere
OzzY
Well, from my point of view there's no best language.
There is "the right tool for the job."

Perl is pretty complete and widely used, and has lots of modules for it.
But people seem to write pretty cryptic code with it, so it's famous for being write-only language.

Tcl on the other hand may not have a syntax as clear as Python's, but it's much easier.
Another BIG thing about Tcl is that Tk, a GUI toolkit available for scripting languages, was first made for Tcl, so it integrates well and is fast with Tcl.

Tcl also has Tclkits which are runtime .EXE's with Virtual File System, allowing you to ship your script bundled with its required libraries in a single, compressed and stand-alone executable that has usually less than 1 MB.
Other scripting language aren't as polished in deployment as Tcl is.

Another thing is community. Tcl has a huge center of information: http://wiki.tcl.tk/
So it's unlikely that you won't find a solution for your problem.

Tcl reduces a lot the time of development of an application, compared for example with C++.

I like to tell people to learn at least these: ASM for learning the machine, C/C++ for learning the most used syntax style and a scripting language for providing quick solutions for problems and for system adminstration tools.

For scripting, I choose Tcl. Very Happy

Another things is that Tcl is extensible (you can write extensions in C or in Tcl itself) and embeddable (you can add the Tcl interpreter to your C/C++ project).

One thing that will catch people's eye in this board is this:
http://wiki.tcl.tk/1613
An assembler simulator written in Tcl

There are similar things for C, Lisp and others on the wiki.
This shows the Tcl power.

I hope you like it!
Have fun! Razz
Post 18 Aug 2007, 13:34
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f14t



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 36
f14t
Thanks Ozzy!
I am visiting the link provided by you.
Let me see if I also find it as good as you said it is!
Smile
Post 18 Aug 2007, 14:13
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f14t



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 36
f14t
I visited the site and am absolutely lost.
Do you have a link of a nicely paced tutorial on Tcl. From the articles in the link that you gave
Tcl is sounding very much alien to me Sad
Post 18 Aug 2007, 14:22
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OzzY



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 1029
Location: Everywhere
OzzY
Yes, I thought you would!
I was when I first tried it too!
Tcl syntax is different from everything you have seen. It's a mix of Lisp, Scheme and C, I can't explain!
But now I'm addicted to Tcl!

Here are nice tutorials to get you started:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:Tcl (very complete free online book)
http://www.bin-co.com/tcl/tutorial/ (nice introduction)

and here is a window with a button in 2 lines of code that exits the program when the user clicks the button! Very Happy
Code:
button .btnok -text "OK" -command exit
pack .btnok
    
Post 18 Aug 2007, 14:27
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f14t



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 36
f14t
Thanks Ozzy!
I'll try the links. I also saw some similar examples from the link that you provided
earlier and that's what excited me more about Tcl.
I doubt Sad that Tcl has no Module/Class/Package support.
Post 18 Aug 2007, 14:31
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
The reason assembly is the best is because it is the right tool for ALL jobs. Every language listed has a fault of sorts. Can't do this or that, difficulty with this/that, doesn't run here and there, difficulties with interfaces, etc. Assembly's only fault is it might take longer to write. Some may say it is more difficult to write. But there is nothing it can't do and there is never any question about the way to do it (like deciphering pointer heiroglyphics in C/C++). Everything is readable because you don't have to figure out const **(p)++ or somesuch.

It interfaces with everything without having to call another language. You don't need to know another language due to a deficit in the one you are using. The worst thing I know with HLLs is it seems you need to know more than one to get anything done. Ruby/Python has C interfaces, as does most every other language partly because there are some things Ruby/Python can't do well. Partly because it must interface to other programs not written in Ruby/Python.

Of course, Ruby/Python are interpreted and we could get into the speed issue but if you want speed....get another language. Which one? You better know more than one.
Post 18 Aug 2007, 14:33
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OzzY



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 1029
Location: Everywhere
OzzY
Tcl has package and modules support.
Tcl is not OOP by default, but there are several extensions that make it OOP using classes. You can choose the OOP package you want.
I prefer pure Tcl, as I don't like OOP.
Post 18 Aug 2007, 14:34
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OzzY



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 1029
Location: Everywhere
OzzY
drhowarddrfine: I wouldn't call Assembly the right tool for ALL jobs. It may be the faster tool for ALL jobs if you can get it done! Razz
In runtime speed nothing will beat ASM, sure!
But when you need to code a little email anti-spam tool for your windows and linux machine, I'm pretty sure speed would not be critical, cause the internet would be the most speed hog of your system and not the code itself! Very Happy
Post 18 Aug 2007, 14:44
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f14t



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 36
f14t
Hi Ozzy!
My sole reason for excitement about Tcl was Tk. Python uses Tk, Perl use Tk, but Tcl is the most natural fit for Tk. And hence easy tool for GUI.
But excitement is diminishing, I feel like if the Tcl is not a language, rather it is kludgey way of doing things.
Thanks for your quick help and support. I wish I had liked Tcl, but, sorry not to my taste.
Post 20 Aug 2007, 05:00
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
OzzY wrote:
drhowarddrfine: I wouldn't call Assembly the right tool for ALL jobs. It may be the faster tool for ALL jobs if you can get it done! Razz
In runtime speed nothing will beat ASM, sure!
But when you need to code a little email anti-spam tool for your windows and linux machine, I'm pretty sure speed would not be critical, cause the internet would be the most speed hog of your system and not the code itself! Very Happy
My point is that it is the only tool guaranteed to do what you want to do. No other language can make that claim, at least not without some trickery. Even C, being the closest to assembly, has difficulty in some areas. One example is in the Stevens book about Network Programming where he describes C's problem with typing some variables while interfacing to the network API. For us asm coders, the solution was a simple DWORD.
Post 20 Aug 2007, 05:29
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OzzY



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 1029
Location: Everywhere
OzzY
Quote:

My point is that it is the only tool guaranteed to do what you want to do. No other language can make that claim, at least not without some trickery. Even C, being the closest to assembly, has difficulty in some areas. One example is in the Stevens book about Network Programming where he describes C's problem with typing some variables while interfacing to the network API. For us asm coders, the solution was a simple DWORD.

Agreed!
C has many types that causes confusion. Everything is DWORD, why do I need casts? Very Happy
Post 20 Aug 2007, 05:32
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f14t



Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 36
f14t
Maybe that's the price we pay for a little portability across different processors
architectures.

Try writing this simplest code in asm that will run on all existing processors:
Code:
#include <stdio.h>
int main()
{
    char name[128];
    printf("Your name please: ");
    scanf("%[^\n]", name);

    printf("Hi %s! Glad to meet you!\n\n", name);

    return 0;
}

    
Post 20 Aug 2007, 05:46
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
It is simple because, if you allow C to use the library calls, then you must let assembly use them, too.
Post 20 Aug 2007, 13:37
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