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Yardman



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 245
Location: US
Yardman
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by Yardman on 04 Apr 2012, 02:09; edited 2 times in total
Post 14 Jul 2007, 00:48
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DOS386



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1901
DOS386
> Sorry about the size

Didn't try hard enough Laughing


Description:
Filesize: 184.06 KB
Viewed: 5972 Time(s)

SNAKE.PNG



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Bug Nr.: 12345

Title: Hello World program compiles to 100 KB !!!

Status: Closed: NOT a Bug
Post 14 Jul 2007, 01:12
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
nice yardman Smile
but why human eyes see its rotating??? why?
how bout animal eyes? are they affected too with such graphics? and any idea to confirm it?
Post 14 Jul 2007, 04:28
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
It's in way brain processes image. This part of human brain (image processing) is quite well understood, check wikipedia and follow links to better sources.

Recently i runned simulation that trained neural network which learned to focus on certain places in image, and distinguish basic patterns in image, same what first levels of image processing in human brain do.

By the way, did you know computer is already better at understanding captchas than human? Wink
Post 14 Jul 2007, 06:47
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Picnic



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: behind the arc
Picnic
wow,my head is spinning, very nice !
Post 14 Jul 2007, 10:47
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
sleepsleep wrote:
nice yardman Smile
but why human eyes see its rotating??? why?


Long story short, your eyes are hopping from place to place and your brain catches the similarities and assumes it's seeing the same image as before, only a few objects a little rotated. This is why you get the false info in your mind that the things are spinning.
Post 14 Jul 2007, 22:07
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Yardman



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 245
Location: US
Yardman
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by Yardman on 04 Apr 2012, 02:09; edited 1 time in total
Post 14 Jul 2007, 23:14
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
This beautiful illustration of autokinetic illusion was invented by Akiyoshi Kitaoka:
http://www.ritsumei.ac.jp/%7Eakitaoka/index-e.html
and is explained by Michael Bach here:
http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/
and here:
http://www.acnr.co.uk/pdfs/volume6issue2/v6i2visual.pdf
Autokinetic illusion represents the perception of motion from a stationary object.
Very sensitive individuals may be able to perceive the illusion from a single wheel, as demonstrated in this explanation of the phenomenon by Dr. Kitaoka:
http://www.psy.ritsumei.ac.jp/~akitaoka/PDrift.pdf
note, see figure 4, but remember that the illusion will not appear unless using the PERIPHERAL retina, i.e. not central, foveal gaze, so, FASM forumers will need to look intently, for example, at the text, to the right of the illustration, in order to perceive the illusion of clockwise motion of the wheel.
Research on which part of the brain is responsible for this illusion, has begun, using functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging (fMRI):
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WNP-4G3CWW9-1&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F01%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=658a8b454f1ffa020efdebe27f2b88e1
sleepsleep wrote:
...but why human eyes see its rotating??? why?
how bout animal eyes? are they affected too with such graphics? and any idea to confirm it?

Yes, most of what little we know about mammalian physiology is based upon animal experimentation. Several Nobel prizes have been awarded during the past hundred years to physiologists who have investigated everything from how the heart pumps blood, to audition, sensation, vision, and coordinated movement, USING ANIMALS for research. The justification for performing this research on animals, with the animals' consequent death, of course, is an emotionally charged topic representing considerable anguish, to me who has killed many of them, and to others as well, who have performed this reseach. The main point is to reaffirm that humans too, are simply animals, contrary to what various religious texts proclaim.
Yardman wrote:
...As far as animal eyes go ... I'll put some of that stuff that HyperVista is bringing to the conference in my dog's water dish.

This is either a private joke, or I am just stupid, (or both!), but I cannot fathom what Yardman is suggesting, other than his unique ability to interpret canine vocalizations, a skill which may share certain features with Dr. Kitaoka's stationary wheel.
Smile
Post 14 Jul 2007, 23:33
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m



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 304
Location: in
m
It makes my head spin Shocked

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Attitude!
Post 18 Jul 2007, 06:04
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
This is the proof that the Earth rotates on itself.
Post 18 Jul 2007, 16:47
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
I found it on a forum. Look at the point for a while
Image

About explanation sorry, there is no one, the user just posted the image ( http://forum.telecomsucks.com/index.php?showtopic=4452&st=240&# )
Post 19 Jul 2007, 17:36
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
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tom tobias
Post 19 Jul 2007, 19:56
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
tom tobias wrote:
http://www.yorku.ca/eye/m-lillu.htm


Perhaps I'm a little biased because I knew that illusion before but that picture didn't cheat me. Perhaps the position and the dithering is helping the eye to not be confused.

PS: With the picture I posted is better to approach your face near the point because it is a little hard to see the vanishing effect otherwise.
Post 19 Jul 2007, 20:27
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
LocoDelAssembly wrote:
...With the picture I posted is better to approach your face near the point because it is a little hard to see the vanishing effect otherwise.
Thanks for that clarification. Yes, I was too far away from the screen, and missed that the first time. Very slick.
The central gaze, in this case focused upon the black dot, uses our best, most accurate photoreceptors, called CONES, which reside in the foveal portion of the retina. Around the periphery are the RODS, which are sensitive to BLACK/WHITE, NOT color. Therefore, when our eye is close to the screen, AND we focus on the black dot, our central gaze, the fovea, is focused on the black dot, and the rods, which cannot detect color, see NOTHING, therefore, the brain believes that there is ONLY a black dot there. This would not work if the periphery were black/white, and the center were a color, BUT, a similar type of illusion could be produced by asking the subject, in that case, to focus one's gaze on the periphery, perhaps upon a small white circle, then the color in the center would disappear, because the color would strike the portion of the retina in that case, inhabited by only rods, not cones.
Post 20 Jul 2007, 00:46
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Nice explanation thanks Smile

I tried adding some text around but it doesn't dissapear. It seems that those smooth colors are required for the illusion because the smooth pattern mixed with the text dissapears but the text keeps there.
Post 20 Jul 2007, 02:27
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
LocoDelAssembly wrote:

I tried adding some text around but it doesn't dissapear.
Well, that would depend on a couple of factors, first, most important, the text in the periphery, MUST be colored, if you want it to "disappear", i.e. so that while the fovea is focused on the central dot, ONLY the rods are available to discern the text. If the text is black/white, i.e. conventional, then the rods WILL perceive the pattern, and it will not "disappear". Similarly, the text must be in written using a sufficiently small and faint font, so that there is no possiblity, from an optical perspective, of the colored text image striking any part of the fovea, else, then too, the text will not disappear.
Post 20 Jul 2007, 13:25
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Post 20 Jul 2007, 20:16
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Quote:

MUST be colored

It was blue and in other part I drawn a red pattern with the aerograph using MS Paint. But, this blue and red was solid colors, not smooth colors that progressively merges with the gray background like the original pattern. None of the things I added disappears and I will stop doing tests because it hurts my eyes Razz
Post 20 Jul 2007, 20:23
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
LocoDelAssembly wrote:
...was solid colors, not smooth colors
, ok, and there, I believe, and maybe proven incorrect by those more knowledgeable about retinal physiology, the CONTRAST between these "solid colors" will be detected by the Rods, not the color per se, but the fact that there is something there. To be effective (in terms of disappearing from view), the colors must be blurry, rather than sharp, to trick the visual cortex into suppressing the information from the periphery.
The name for this general area is psychophysics, and it is a fertile area of research, and has been for several hundred years. You may wish to look up with Google, Roget's illusion. Roget, of course, was the author of the famous thesaurus, which you use every day, right? (hint, this is the best way to improve your English!!!)
http://thesaurus.reference.com/
Post 20 Jul 2007, 23:41
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Quote:

the famous thesaurus, which you use every day, right? (hint, this is the best way to improve your English!!!)
http://thesaurus.reference.com/

Never Smile Only Google English to Spanish translator to check if the paragraph I wrote in English matches with what I'm trying to say. (though, I have to ignore the translator sometimes...).

Anyway, thanks for the link, I'm adding it to my favourites now.

PS: Note that actually I should take an English course instead of keep talking in Locoglish Laughing
Post 21 Jul 2007, 00:21
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