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HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
vid wrote:
hey, i don't care at all whether your clothes are transparent or not!


That reminds me of the joke about the guy who wanted to "spice" up his marriage and was given the advice to greet his wife at the door wearing nothing but saran wrap (a clear plastic wrap used to store food in the refrigerator). So, the next evening he got completely undressed, wraped saran wrap around himself and greeted his wife at the door, smiled and said, "what do you think?".
To which she replied, "well, I can clearly see you're nuts".
Post 24 Apr 2007, 13:47
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
Some more myths:
1. "It is a good idea to turn off plug-and-play support in BIOS." No special comment required.
2. "Making ghosts of installed systems and cloning them onto other boxes solves a lot of problems." Actually people that use this just don't work on fixing the problems then, the problems are all still there.
3. "Cyrix processors cause program crashes because they are overheating" Actually it's the thermal throttling that kicks in that Cyrix doesn't even support, and kills the register data, crashing the software.
4. "a 3.8 GHz P4 is faster than an Athlon 3800+" Despite the "3800+" not being the processor's MHz speed, the AMD is actually still faster.
5. "PCIe SLI is a big innovation, being first to introduce linking graphics cards" Actually plain old PCI had it half a decade ago and IT supported daisy-chaining not linking merely 2 cards.
6. "All technological innovations in computer hardware have been aimed at increasing preformance and produced better performance" I have a few fine examples on how that is SO not true. Take a look at OpenGL capabilities, they all have fancy names but using some of them actually takes the frame rate down in half if utilized instead of ignored.
7. "Binding cables togather inside a computer is a good idea" Not only that where the round cables are has NO effect on airflow, but also making loops and folds out of cables makes them more succeptable to electromagnetic interference.

There are some more can't think of them now will send some more later.
Post 24 Apr 2007, 13:52
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Remy Vincent



Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 155
Location: France
Remy Vincent
DustWolf wrote:

A friend of mine went to this programming summer... ...
... ...but got frustrated and just wrote it in FASM... ...


I think that our DNA is MADE ONLY to do programming, in any language you want. So it is sounding STRANGE to me that someone could get FRUSTRATED during summer programming... ... really, some animals have their DNA telling them to eat the top leaves (....) of the trees, other animals have their DNA telling them to live inside rivers, and I am 100% sure that our human DNA is telling us to practice programming instead of any other """"VERY STRANGE""" activity like any sports or any ...
Post 24 Apr 2007, 17:02
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Quote:
I don't about yours, but my teachers think assembly programming is just for old DOS computers or for creating OS.
And they usually think the only assembler available is that old MASM16 or TASM.


Mines like that, only he dosn't know that you use anything other than a hex editor to program in ASM...

Quote:
I tell than that I program in assembly for Windows and they say I can't. That I must be using C++, Delphi or .NET. argh!
I hate this.
It feels like I should be the teacher and not the student.


I feel that way even about C++, which was what was being taught to me... I'm taking two more classes with him next year. "AP programming" ("The most advanced couse," java....) and the second half of the C++ course. As far as i know, he's oblivious to the __asm keyword and the binary operators and templating and all the good stuff.

Quote:
A friend of mine went to this programming summer school or something like that. They were teaching them how to code, tho many of them already knew how to... were making a tic-tac-toe game in C++ in windows.

He tried doing it in C, but got frustrated and just wrote it in FASM. The teacher commended him for being the first of the class to finnish the game durring the lessons. The teacher never realized it was not written in C. Then my friend said he could rewrite it in Assembly pretty quick; the teacher insisted that that could take days and that there is no reason to do that when it is so easily done in C.


Sounds like alot of my own stories... Actually, i can code faster in ASM than in C++, even for console apps. I spend alot less time planning, cause i can plan on the fly, rather than what i do with C++. It's simply amazing how much they do run around things in HLLs that are no trouble in ASM. Not always, but frequently enough, i find that programmers with HLLs like to patch things. For instance, i had a program that first called a cin >> () and left a 10 in the input buffer, so when i called the getline, it went over the getline, and i had to call getline again. People thought that was acceptable, to just patch that up by calling a function twice. Now anyone that knows me well enough knows that programming like is not acceptable to me, though it turned out good that time, it could have been extremely dangerous in a realworld situation.

Quote:
1. "It is a good idea to turn off plug-and-play support in BIOS." No special comment required.


Now that one takes the cake...

Quote:
"Making ghosts of installed systems and cloning them onto other boxes solves a lot of problems." Actually people that use this just don't work on fixing the problems then, the problems are all still there.


Aye, then they wonder why the problems return... Which reminds me of how often a problem must be solved by a reformat... which is another myth, but your geek squad and such just love to say you need to reformat or some shmeal like that.

Quote:
4. "a 3.8 GHz P4 is faster than an Athlon 3800+" Despite the "3800+" not being the processor's MHz speed, the AMD is actually still faster.


I'm not fond of the intels, but i like the instruction set, anyway... And this reminds me of another rumor yet to come, "Fiber optics processors will be going at blinding speeds." If you'll excuse the paradox, the fiberoptics won't make much a difference, since the whole process goes only as fast as the weakest link, which happens to be the non-fiber optics ram. There is a reson why cellphones with fiberoptics are still slow...

Quote:
6. "All technological innovations in computer hardware have been aimed at increasing preformance and produced better performance" I have a few fine examples on how that is SO not true. Take a look at OpenGL capabilities, they all have fancy names but using some of them actually takes the frame rate down in half if utilized instead of ignored.


That way they can say that our internal parts are old and we need to buy more expensive, "better," and faster ones. Expensive... I should make a hardware selling company, i could be a millionair in a matter of minuites after opening the company.

Quote:
7. "Binding cables togather inside a computer is a good idea" Not only that where the round cables are has NO effect on airflow, but also making loops and folds out of cables makes them more succeptable to electromagnetic interference.


I never think of that...

Quote:
I think that our DNA is MADE ONLY to do programming, in any language you want. So it is sounding STRANGE to me that someone could get FRUSTRATED during summer programming... ... really, some animals have their DNA telling them to eat the top leaves (....) of the trees, other animals have their DNA telling them to live inside rivers, and I am 100% sure that our human DNA is telling us to practice programming instead of any other """"VERY STRANGE""" activity like any sports or any ...


I don't agree that DNA makes up our thoughts, but i do agree with sports being strange.... A bunch of men fighting over balls in different ways. Shouldn't that be a female's (or homosexual's) objective, to fight over some one's balls? Sports are over rated... Which reminds me of yet another. "Programmers have no lives." If you ignor the literal meaning, i think i propose more to the world than they do. I make things for the world, they fight each other. Who logically wins that argument?
Post 24 Apr 2007, 20:03
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
DustWolf wrote:

1. "It is a good idea to turn off plug-and-play support in BIOS." No special comment required.

You mean "plug and play O/S" setting? This just controls whether the BIOS assigns IRQs etc to PCI devices, and can be useful turning off for some broken operating systems (noticably home-brewn stuff or linux... though linux has come a long way in the last few years.)

DustWolf wrote:

2. "Making ghosts of installed systems and cloning them onto other boxes solves a lot of problems." Actually people that use this just don't work on fixing the problems then, the problems are all still there.

Pretty useful for rolling out installs to a large amount of similar hardware, though... as well as getting a system up and running quickly if some user has gotten himself virus infected or whatever.

DustWolf wrote:

4. "a 3.8 GHz P4 is faster than an Athlon 3800+" Despite the "3800+" not being the processor's MHz speed, the AMD is actually still faster.

Certainly depends on what you're doing. Try throwing some decent SSE code at both processors, and see which one performs the best. Hint: it's not the AMD :]

DustWolf wrote:

5. "PCIe SLI is a big innovation, being first to introduce linking graphics cards" Actually plain old PCI had it half a decade ago and IT supported daisy-chaining not linking merely 2 cards.

I don't think anybody claims PCIe SLI *invented* daisy-chaining (would be silly, since nvidia afaik were the first to do PCIe SLI, and they were among the first to do daisychaining of old PCI as well). The PCIe SLI of today works better, though... and PCIe isn't limited to linking two cards, but imho it's a bit useless going further than that until there's boards with more than two x16 lanes.

Kohlrak wrote:

Which reminds me... Some people believe that C++'s lovely function overloading is perfect. That's why wcout << () prints numbers instead of wide characters. XD (Confuses wchar_t with unsigned short.)


You must either be using an old compiler or doing something wrong... you'll want a compiler that treats wchar_t as a native type instead of typedef'ing it to short.

Code:
wchar_t        ch = 'X';
short    sh = 90;
cout  << ch << ' ' << sh << endl; // 88 90
wcout << ch << ' ' << sh << endl; // X 90
    
Post 25 Apr 2007, 10:34
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Quote:
You must either be using an old compiler or doing something wrong... you'll want a compiler that treats wchar_t as a native type instead of typedef'ing it to short.


Pirated visual studio 6.0... I forget if i tried 7.0 or not... Irregardless, it's not a relatively old problem. I fixed it using wprintf instead. And some other compilers out there don't see wchar_t's existance at all. As said, though, this is a pitfall of OOPs. Sometimes i wonder if OOP stands for an acronym, or if they wanted the expression OOPs for making languages that aren't as great as they're cracked up to be. Which reminds me of another, really annoying rumor... "Java is better because it is newer, and OOPs are harder to learn than structured languages, so they must be faster and take less space with all those advanced algorithems." And i know we have different opinions on which is harder to learn and/or use, but i don't think we will argue much on which is faster and takes less space.
Post 25 Apr 2007, 10:48
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
VC6 is old and crummy. It was good when it was introduced, but it's C++ support is pretty horrible by today's standards. It certainly typedefs wchar_t to short, and I can't remember if there's a compiler switch to treat it as a native type instead (check the compiler options. This was introduced in later VC versions, and made default too).

Any compiler that doesn't know about wchar_t shouldn't be used today - except if you're working with some quirky embedded platform.

You're really not in any position to make comments of the C/C++ of today if you're stuck with a compiler that's almost 10 years old... a couple of things have happened since then Wink

Ohyeah, it's also pretty silly to be using a pirated VS6 when there's the free express editions available.
Post 25 Apr 2007, 10:57
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Quote:
You're really not in any position to make comments of the C/C++ of today if you're stuck with a compiler that's almost 10 years old... a couple of things have happened since then


School has version 7, which i *heard* was the most recent. Not much improvement in my book, but that's just my opinion.

Quote:
VC6 is old and crummy. It was good when it was introduced, but it's C++ support is pretty horrible by today's standards. It certainly typedefs wchar_t to short, and I can't remember if there's a compiler switch to treat it as a native type instead (check the compiler options. This was introduced in later VC versions, and made default too).

Any compiler that doesn't know about wchar_t shouldn't be used today - except if you're working with some quirky embedded platform.


Agreed.

Quote:
Ohyeah, it's also pretty silly to be using a pirated VS6 when there's the free express editions available.


I heard they have time limits on them.
Post 25 Apr 2007, 11:20
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
Kohlrak wrote:

School has version 7, which i *heard* was the most recent. Not much improvement in my book, but that's just my opinion.

It's much better than VS6, both in C++ conformance as well as code generation - although the original 7.0 (VS2002) was too buggy, you need 7.1 (VS2003) which is pretty decent, and certainly a big improvement over VS6. And please don't just look at the IDE, I'm talking the really important things here: the compiler. VC8/VS2005 is of course the preferable platform, but VS7.1 is decent enough.

And no, there aren't time limits on the express editions (there was originally, but those were removed) - and the compiler isn't handicapped, it includes optimizations and everything. If I had the choice between full VC7.1 (or VC6, ick!) or VC8 express edition, it'd be the EE.
Post 25 Apr 2007, 11:25
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
f0dder wrote:
DustWolf wrote:

1. "It is a good idea to turn off plug-and-play support in BIOS." No special comment required.

You mean "plug and play O/S" setting? This just controls whether the BIOS assigns IRQs etc to PCI devices, and can be useful turning off for some broken operating systems (noticably home-brewn stuff or linux... though linux has come a long way in the last few years.)


I think the myth itself was much more generic actually. And it was recommended for non-dev workstations (e.g. Windows).

I guess it could fix some problems if your computer was a standard IBM, the box was locked to prevent anyone from tweaking the hardware and you had Windows 95 installed, but the point is that this myth has been taken into account with everything up to Windows XP, spelling dissaster allong the way.

Quote:
DustWolf wrote:

2. "Making ghosts of installed systems and cloning them onto other boxes solves a lot of problems." Actually people that use this just don't work on fixing the problems then, the problems are all still there.

Pretty useful for rolling out installs to a large amount of similar hardware, though... as well as getting a system up and running quickly if some user has gotten himself virus infected or whatever.


Surely it's usefull, but it does NOT Solve Problems.

People mainly resorted to Ghost cloning when machines were troublesome due to very minor differences in hardware or other mistakes they were making and did not realize. Deghosting an immage onto a computer is the easy way of making it look like everything works, but it's a recepie for dissaster if the situation is any bit less than ideal.

Quote:
DustWolf wrote:

4. "a 3.8 GHz P4 is faster than an Athlon 3800+" Despite the "3800+" not being the processor's MHz speed, the AMD is actually still faster.

Certainly depends on what you're doing. Try throwing some decent SSE code at both processors, and see which one performs the best. Hint: it's not the AMD :]


I think in a real-life situation there is little you could do to a P4 to make it run as fast as an Athlon 64 3800+, it is simply a slower-performing processor. You could blame it on the P4's overheating or on the 30+ step pipeline (netburst) or anything of the sort.

p.s.: As I recall, the Athlon 64 3800+ has support for all 3 SSE extension groups? Is it slower at them by design? If so, why?

Quote:
DustWolf wrote:

5. "PCIe SLI is a big innovation, being first to introduce linking graphics cards" Actually plain old PCI had it half a decade ago and IT supported daisy-chaining not linking merely 2 cards.

I don't think anybody claims PCIe SLI *invented* daisy-chaining (would be silly, since nvidia afaik were the first to do PCIe SLI, and they were among the first to do daisychaining of old PCI as well). The PCIe SLI of today works better, though... and PCIe isn't limited to linking two cards, but imho it's a bit useless going further than that until there's boards with more than two x16 lanes.


Silly is the part of this myth I wanted to point out. Several months ago I had a heated debate with a Believer who thought SLI was something really new. As usual, Believers cannot be made to understand that time did not begin when their beloved technology of choice popped into existance.
Post 25 Apr 2007, 11:41
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
DustWolf wrote:

I guess it could fix some problems if your computer was a standard IBM, the box was locked to prevent anyone from tweaking the hardware and you had Windows 95 installed, but the point is that this myth has been taken into account with everything up to Windows XP, spelling dissaster allong the way.

Setting "Plug and play O/S" to 0 in the BIOS doesn't disable windows plug&play - it just means that the BIOS will allocate resources. Iirc a PnP OS can even re-allocate later on if it wants to, so no big deal.

Btw, does anybody remember the very old 3D addon card that did *not* have to be connected to 2D VGA card in any way? Used PCI bus mastering to transfer data Smile
Post 25 Apr 2007, 11:46
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Quote:
People mainly resorted to Ghost cloning when machines were troublesome due to very minor differences in hardware or other mistakes they were making and did not realize. Deghosting an immage onto a computer is the easy way of making it look like everything works, but it's a recepie for dissaster if the situation is any bit less than ideal.


And then some people make ghosts of other computers, then wonder why sound and stuff dosn't work on the system copied to.

Quote:
Silly is the part of this myth I wanted to point out. Several months ago I had a heated debate with a Believer who thought SLI was something really new. As usual, Believers cannot be made to understand that time did not begin when their beloved technology of choice popped into existance.


And there's usually no hope at all in trying to convince them otherwise, so i don't bother.
Post 25 Apr 2007, 11:48
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
f0dder wrote:
Setting "Plug and play O/S" to 0 in the BIOS doesn't disable windows plug&play - it just means that the BIOS will allocate resources. Iirc a PnP OS can even re-allocate later on if it wants to, so no big deal.


The problem is that if PnP O/S is disabled in BIOS while you are installing a version of Windows, windows assumes that the system does not support PnP and fails to install handlers to communicate resource settings with the hardware. This results in stuff like USB not working at all and no indication why.
Post 25 Apr 2007, 13:13
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
I've never had that problem, and I've had the setting disabled multiples times while installing windows Smile
Post 25 Apr 2007, 14:26
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
f0dder wrote:
I've never had that problem, and I've had the setting disabled multiples times while installing windows Smile


Try moving your network card to a different slot and see what happens.

Essentially I had a lot of trouble with those since I fix hardware for a living. Everything I get to handle is broken and there are such stereotypical reasons why.
Post 25 Apr 2007, 16:24
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
In america, "if it dosn't work, it is broken. If it is broken it can be fixed with software using a windows disk." That is the opinion of the mijority. That's how so many companies get jobs. Story time..

Back when service pack 2 for XP came out, everyone installed it and got network issues. As a last resort (as always), i called my ISP (because of the networking issue). They said that i should uninstall the service pack. Then, when it crashed and i lost my start button and everything, that it happend to every computer that morning, and they had to reformat all of them. I was too polite to say it, but i was thinking, "Gee thanks for the warning. What if i happen to have valuable stuff on here? What if i loose millions of bucks for this, and you wouldn't know the difference..." I was mad, especially when they didn't tell me how to not only back up my files, but how to reformat. Needless to say, a quick call to Dell (note that this had been my first time dealing with a reformat and i had no clue what to do), they told me that i actually had an option to install windows a second time. That was then i got even more inflamed, and told the guy what had happened. This is why i hate it when it is viewed, in this country, that you can trust corperations for your computer needs. if i called a "computer repair" buisness, they would have reformatted, and not backed up my important files, which i did have in abundance.
Post 25 Apr 2007, 19:58
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
DustWolf wrote:

Try moving your network card to a different slot and see what happens.

I've done worse than that - like moving from an ATi to a nvidia card... never caused me any problems, neither with win2k nor XP. Dunno about win9x, but I stopped caring much about those dos extenders years ago.

Hm, network issues with SP2? Never had that, don't know any who did, either. Not after looking at the firewall settings anyway Smile
Post 25 Apr 2007, 22:01
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
There's a good version of SP2 and there's the bad version. The bad version is the automatic updates version, and the good version is some where else.
Post 26 Apr 2007, 03:21
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