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Adan



Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 17
Adan
...in coding a closed source AMD64 Forth based OS? I have an AMD64 laptop as the only testing machine and also as the development environment. The kernel runs fine in its current status in Bochs VM (well, it has a memory limitation problem that I haven´t be able to figure out...), but it crashes in my laptop. I need people interested in developing and testing this OS who have an AMD64 machine to test on. As I already mentioned before, there is a minimal asm core that will be completely closed source, ant then, a lot of Forth open code. Yes, the OS is a standalone Forth VM but my plans are to do something better and more complete (e.g. ForthOS) than current implementations (e.g. RetroForth), and another difference is that it only runs on a 64bit machine. I think that if a part of the kernel is kept closed source, we could get some profit from the system if it gets to a mature and useful state.

These are some ideas I have in mind, if someone is interested and has no other project to work in, please post on this thread. Thanks. Wink
Post 04 Apr 2007, 22:41
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
I think that if a part of the kernel is kept closed source, we could get some profit from the system if it gets to a mature and useful state.
how? from whom?
Post 04 Apr 2007, 22:42
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: web
Dex4u
Adan wrote:
but my plans are to do something better and more complete (e.g. ForthOS) than current implementations (e.g. RetroForth), and another difference is that it only runs on a 64bit machine.
I do not think you should say "better", more complete is OK, as for example, something that does not use high res graphics, could be like that because the maker does not want high res graphics, if yours does have higher res graphics, it does not mean its better.
Also you say closed source, are you going to let the people dev and testing it, see the code.
Post 05 Apr 2007, 03:19
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Adan



Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 17
Adan
... maybe "better" is not the correct word to use, but I want to manage high res graphics and even an OO GUI written in Forth, I think it's possible if the system supports preemptive multitasking and memory protection through paging, two things that RetroForth doesn´t support in the way that is designed. And I don´t think that open the minimal asm core code to everyone is a good idea even if you can´t sell the system to anybody, so the dev team should agree with that, and, if they agree, the could share this closed code, but only inside the dev team, something similar to the MOS 64 philosophy... Rolling Eyes
Post 05 Apr 2007, 18:10
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: web
Dex4u
Adan wrote:
And I don´t think that open the minimal asm core code to everyone is a good idea even if you can´t sell the system to anybody, so the dev team should agree with that, and, if they agree, the could share this closed code, but only inside the dev team, something similar to the MOS 64 philosophy... Rolling Eyes
Sure its up to you how you share your code, but i just wanted to clear it up, it maybe better if only you work on the ASM core.
Post 06 Apr 2007, 15:47
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Adan



Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 17
Adan
It's not my intention to work alone on this, that´s the reason why I post on this forum, I´m just looking for people who have the same feeling I have that if all code is open to everyone, your intellectual property gets degraded from time to time by people who know nothing about OS concepts or asm programming, even about programming, Confused , and this happens too in mature OSes like Linux, there are a lot of news articles about stolen kernel code from others and things like that. As far is I know, the MOS64 kernel is completely closed source and noone has said It´s a sin!!, It´s just a feeling, It´s hard to find some people and assembler programmers interested in homebrew OSes in my native country, so I post here..., It´s not a crazy idea if you know that only a MINIMAL PART (memory manager and scheduler plus some others) of the kernel will be closed to the public. Every other piece like device drivers or GUI code will be open with a clear and easy to use API, It can be Forth code to interpret directly, or already compiled into threaded code to be executed... What do you think?

And if someone got ofended by my words, I´m really sorry. Thanks.
Post 06 Apr 2007, 16:09
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: web
Dex4u
I am not into forth, but crc did a retroforth port for DexOS, which was cool, but retroforth did not use the high res graphics thats built into DexOS, so that was by chose. Also the forth people, are into small and simple code, so high res-graphic and forth do not useally go togeather, so you may get a new type of people interested in forth. But 64bit asm coders, with OS Dev knowledge are not very common, so good luck.
Post 06 Apr 2007, 18:06
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Adan



Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 17
Adan
I´m having some problems with the code (maybe is the computer I use, a Compaq Presario V2630, AMD Turion ML34 1800Mhz) and to all who think that a closed source app is pure crap, I´ll upload the entire source code of my project if someone wants to test it or use it in another system (Everyone is welcome to test or use it since I haven´t thought about license type yet). First I have to translate ALL symbols and comments to english cause they are in spanish...(ja, some way to defend my origins, but, unfortunately, use english for everything is a ´must to´ in these days)...
Post 07 Apr 2007, 04:35
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hckr83



Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 86
Location: usa
hckr83
lol...english, the only "compatible" language...kinda like C/C++... but not really..
I have an AMD64 pc, so I can test it if needed, though I don't know forth at all! I know quite a bit of the basics of ASM though..

only thing in spanish I know how to say is "Hablo pantellones" (english keyboard lol) that's I speak pants to you non-spanish knowing people, and this includes me..(I only know it from spanish I I'm taking this year! lol)
Post 07 Apr 2007, 05:35
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Adan



Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 17
Adan
...hckr83, I´m having a 13th fault when doing ´lidt ...´ on my laptop, but it runs well in Bochs and Qemu (Who said that Qemu does not support x86_64 architecture?...). Also tried to fill the IDT with only one interrupt handler like in the long mode examples and it doesn,t work either on the real machine. As soon as I translate the source I´ll upload it (It´s not just a few lines...). And about the Forth interpreter, well, I´m not working in it yet, so don´t worry about it. First I have to decide which threaded technique will use timing some Indirect, Direct and Subrutine threaded code, some key functions that are part of the interpreter core. "pantellones" is in fact "pantalones" for pants, jaja, and, "hablo" and "pantalones" don´t fit well together in spanish. Thanks again and see you later. Razz
Post 07 Apr 2007, 14:46
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hckr83



Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 86
Location: usa
hckr83
I really have no idea on x64 architecture, I really should learn some bits of it
Post 07 Apr 2007, 21:18
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
do you know the IA32 architecture?
it's the basis of the x64
Post 26 Jun 2007, 13:37
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