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Jack



Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 21
Jack
@bogdanontanu, I sensed for some time that you were above the normal populace, I even speculated if you were a Master.
I too was blessed once, but due to my sins and not having enough love for GOD, lost it all, as you know, we get personal revelations.
I was for a long time sympathetic to Buddhism due largely to my studies of theosophy, but lately I have been steered towards Judaism, and the Kabbalah.
Post 04 Mar 2007, 01:26
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bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
Jack wrote:

@bogdanontanu, I sensed for some time that you were above the normal populace,


Hihihi,
You "sense" wrong young skywalker...
but with honest practice your "sensing" skils will improve...

One can not be "above" or "under" another human.
One can only be above or under it's own spiritual potential.

In fact you are always into your exact potential but unfortunately you perceive wrongly that you are somewhere else (somewhere like "above" or "under") ... hence the mistake is only in "perception of the mind".

Jack wrote:

I even speculated if you were a Master.


What kind of "organ" did you use to make such speculations?
Did you gain anything from this "speculation" ? Something on the Wall Street maybe?

First "a master" must take disciples. Since I never take disciples I could not be such a master Wink

Or "a master" (of slaves) is somebody that has "slaves".

Last time I've checked I had no slave in my property or working for me. But I confess that I did have slaves in the past... since I did own my own company and there have been people's working for me there... but no more. Today i work as a normal human in a normal company... looks better Wink

Jack wrote:

I too was blessed once, but due to my sins and not having enough love for GOD, lost it all, ...


Well, GOD (if exists) does not punish "sins".

Besides it is like riding a bicycle or swimming: once you have "known it" then it is not possible to "loose it all" for the rest of your ... life.

Jack wrote:

... as you know, we get personal revelations.


I know nothing... I am simply reinventing the "wheel" every time ...


It is simply a matter of "devotion to Ishivara" or in translation to a western mind: "devotion" to a GOD.

In fact GOD can be dropped form this sentence ... it is just "devotion" that matters!

But since most humans can only devote to a "GOD" ...
Oh, well, then Patanjali did made this concession.

In you must have devotion but when you read this (especially as a western) you are not yet capable of understanding devotion to the whole existence.

You can only understand devotion to a supernatural being or concept and this is a common western misconception.

A Master will tell you the difference Wink

Besides this is exactly the last steep before final illumination ... before this there are many other steps...

For example you must have content and austerity before devotion.

Jack wrote:

I was for a long time sympathetic to Buddhism due largely to my studies of theosophy, but lately I have been steered towards Judaism, and the Kabbalah.


Who owns the "steering device" ? Maybe "we" could convince "him" that next time he should steer you towards truth and honesty Wink

On a path of knowing more and more about your true inner nature and less and less about me...

In fact "I" do not even exist Wink

_________________
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger,
more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage --
to move in the opposite direction."
Post 04 Mar 2007, 05:15
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Bogdan wrote:
In fact "I" do not even exist
How fortunate we all are then, that SOL appeared by magic:

http://www.oby.ro/forum/index.php?sid=02f037a17dd0ace87b557cf8b7a7255b

Smile
Post 04 Mar 2007, 19:01
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Jack wrote:
I was for a long time sympathetic to Buddhism due largely to my studies of theosophy, but lately I have been steered towards Judaism
Hmm. Well, good, then you can become one of the "chosen" people--you know, the ones that survive the nuclear radiation when the bombs hit Tel Aviv or New York or Buenos Aires.
Strange: buddhism to judaism....amazing....I can not imagine any adult, having no prior exposure to judaism, finding judaism attractive or relevant, in any fashion...To me judaism is the most hostile, alien, rude philosophy out there. Buddhism is an utter mystery to me, ditto for its predecessor, Hinduism, but I know that the latter incorporates the idea of strict class segregation (caste), perhaps this concept is also incorporated into Buddhist thinking, I certainly do not know. Judaism would seem to me to represent a step backwards from Buddhism. Kind of similar to deciding to return to 8 bit cpu architecture.....Perhaps Buddhist ideas expect too much adult thinking, in lieu of the childish judaism which treats people like unthinking morons, regulating and surveilling every normal human activity. Some people enjoy being instructed what to believe ["been steered towards"], and being told the truth.....I guess, I suppose, I surely do not know, that Buddhism would deny knowing with certainty anything at all, so it seems quite far away, intellectually, from judaism--> the paramount manual for development of intolerance, greed, selfishness, and disrespect for human civilization.
Post 04 Mar 2007, 19:24
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
tom tobias wrote:
Judaism would seem to me to represent a step backwards from Buddhism.
Youre probably right. The kabballah is an interesting occult science though. Some portions of the kabbalah refect certain aspects of bhakti, jnana and tantric yoga. There is even the tradition of a sort of baptisim or revelation of the written tradition similar to diksha in some yogas. The language is very much jewish but some parallels can be found. For example, in the kabbalistic system every action creates an 'angel' yet the concept of angel is different than normally thought, rather an angel is a sort of energy, this could be compared to the concept of karma.
Post 05 Mar 2007, 00:10
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
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tom tobias
tantrikwizard wrote:
The kabballah is an interesting occult science though.
Since it is NON-VERIFIABLE, it is NOT science:

http://www.carm.org/kabbalah/whatis.htm

here's a quote:
carmdotorg wrote:
Kabbalah is difficult to categorize because it is a subjective non-falsifiable belief system. In other words, it rests in non-verifiable philosophy not in historic fact.

If anyone can wade through the gargantuan collection of "offencive" text on the Buddhism thread, one can read a brilliant rejoinder, authored by tantrikwizard, explaining that a source can not serve to validate itself, and be regarded as factual. Occult ANYTHING, or paranormal this or that, is all hogwash, to be placed in the same circular file [= trash bin] with all the religions. Study a tiny tad of neurology, a little more time with decaffeinated tea, and less time with hashish, and it will all become much clearer. Smile
Post 05 Mar 2007, 12:33
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
tom tobias wrote:
tantrikwizard wrote:
The kabballah is an interesting occult science though.
Since it is NON-VERIFIABLE, it is NOT science:
Of course it's not a hard science, it's an occult science which is an unverifyable belief system. The term 'occult science' is very common and referes to just that. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occult_science

Quote:
Kabbalah and Tarot have also been described as Occult science; Papus (Gerard Encausse)'s book originally published in French in 1889 as Le Tarot des Bohémiens: Le plus ancien Livre du monde, was translated into English in 1910 as The Tarot of the Bohemians: The Absolute Key to Occult Science.

The idea of Occult Science is also a general part of the New Age movement.
It's a term that means the practice of magick using a form of study, expermentation and observation, similar to science.
Post 05 Mar 2007, 13:17
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
tantrikwizard wrote:
It's a term that means the practice of magick using a form of study, expermentation and observation, similar to science.

Sorry, I cannot accept your notion.
Fussy people like me, quarrelsome old codgers, very fixed in their ways, rigid in their few remaining thinking processes, dislike intensely the mangling of their language. English, we all know, is terribly difficult, because of the huge quantity of exceptions.
Science is NOT occult.
This is a gimmick.
I dislike fraud.
This business of writing that something is an "occult" science is NONSENSE.
Forget it.
WRONG.
There is science, i.e. VERIFIABLE BY ANYONE, no special skills required, and then there is mysticism, nonsense, and garfle.
Occult gibberish is just that: GIBBERISH.
There is NO SUCH ENTITY as "hard science", implying the existence of "soft science". There is science, and there is philosophy. The two do not mix. Curiously, some claim, I do not, that mathematics is the bridge between the two disciplines.
Eastern philosophies, the subject of this thread, is not a member of the science group. Occultism, as little as I know, is found in both Eastern and Western traditional thinking, and plays a prominent role in African cultures as well, so it perhaps DESERVES inclusion on this thread, BUT NOT clothed in the costume of SCIENCE.
The idea that one should knowingly repeat terminology, understood to be incorrect, just because a large number of ignorant people say or write the same way, is not only repugnant to me, it is contrary to the fundamental spirit of that tiny portion of Eastern philosophy which I am able to understand.
http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/
Some would write that "Art of Assembly Language" is neither Art nor assembly language programming!
Language is important, and its misuse leads to unnecessary tension.
To me, there is no such thing as "artistic" programming. There is well written, clearly delineated code, decipherable by anyone, and then there is obscurantism, cryptic, deliberately, to prevent folks from understanding what is going on. Neither qualifies, in my opinion, for art, which represents a creative spirit unencumbered by conventions. Assembly language programming MUST follow conventions, else the assembler will not funcition. Occultism CAN NOT be confounded with science, except by those clever marketing folks who want people to purchase their products....
Post 05 Mar 2007, 14:49
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
tom tobias wrote:
tantrikwizard wrote:
It's a term that means the practice of magick using a form of study, expermentation and observation, similar to science.
Sorry, I cannot accept your notion.
You may attempt to use different language as you see fit, however, when trying to communicate a topic it is best to use the lingo for which people are familiar. The term 'occult science' is very common in certain circles. Try to google the term "occult science".
tom tobias wrote:
There is NO SUCH ENTITY as "hard science", implying the existence of "soft science".
Actually there is, its also a common term used to define newtonian type mesurable and repeatable sciences of physics, chemistry, etc. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_science
Quote:
Hard science is a term used to describe certain fields of the natural sciences, usually physics, computer science, geology, chemistry, and many fields of biology. The hard sciences rely on experimental, quantifiable data or the scientific method and focus on accuracy and objectivity. The hard sciences are often contrasted with soft sciences, which by contrast have less rigor.
'Hard science' is used to contrast the soft sciences http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_science and pseudosciences http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience. such as occult sciences.

Quote:
Pseudoscience is any body of knowledge, methodology, belief, or practice that claims to be scientific but does not follow the scientific method
Quote:
Occult science is the systematic formulation—or an attempt thereof—of occult concepts in a manner that follows the example of Science, or more specifically the popular understanding of Science.

The idea of Occult science appears in 19th century occultism, especially Theosophy, beginning with Blavatsky, and was further developed by both Rudolph Steiner, who wrote a book of the same name, and Alice Bailey.
The historic use of certain words is not my contriving, they have been around a long time, I just use them where they apply. If you study the occult you will find the term 'occult science' is widely used. You will also find the terms 'hard science' and 'pseudoscience' widely used in certain aspects. 'Science' means systematized knowledge and can refer to lot of different things, thus the terms 'hard science', 'pseudoscience' and 'occult science'. Psychology and all mind sciences are pseudosciences because they deal with the subjective nature of behavior, consciousness, memory, etc. and cannot be quantified on a reliable basis. Certain portions of Medical Science may also be considered pseudoscientific for the same reason (Not all cells split at the same age, etc) therefore is not a hard science. 'Hard science' refers to the sciences that can be measured and repeated reliably within a certain probability. 'Pseudoscience' refers to those sciences that are subjective and cannot be measured or repeated reliably, yet still follow the scientific method as much as possible.
Post 05 Mar 2007, 18:23
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
tantrikwizard wrote:
...If you study the occult you will find the term 'occult science' is widely used...
Au contraire, monsieur. First, I have no intention of wasting my time studying ANY supernatural ideas. Second, I have searched the dictionary, and found the term "Occult ARTS", not science.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/occultism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science


parameter......science........occultism
objective......yes............no
subjective.....no.............yes
verifiable.....yes............no
predictive.....yes............no
explanative....yes............no
FASM control...yes............no

With regard to this last point: a computer program could conduct an experiment, i.e. gather data, test the hypothesis, and display the results, either rejecting the hypothesis as invalid, else supporting it. Such a program could be written entirely with FASM. The occult questions and answers are not amenable to such analysis. Are we not completely off the track of this thread, discussing occultism? What benefit does anyone gain from urging FASM forumers, contrary to the facts, to accept the notion that occultism represents some kind of "science"? Why is it useful to defend a silly error, referring to something as "science" when it clearly is not. What harm is there in acknowledging that occultism is a fraud? Of course, if someone thinks that there is MERIT to the fraudulent claim of objectivity with regard to occultism or any other supernatural explanation, then, of course, he or she should defend occultism. Can one not defend such supernatural ideologies absent any claim of attachment to "science"? What's wrong with simply writing, as some have done, that religion xyz, or supernatural this or that, DO INDEED POSSESS VALIDITY, without invoking "science"? Is it not true, that some people attempt to validate their entirely irrational opinions by claiming a substrate of science: Christian Science Monitor, Church of Scientology, both come to mind.....
One needs to confront this fraud--supernatural thinking, because FASM is not based on deception. It is cryptic, deliberately in my opinion, but honest, I believe. The question then, is how Eastern ideas from ancient times, could provide an alternative way of thinking about life, so that we could improve both our own programming practices, and ultimately, FASM itself. Occultism, like any other belief in supernatural phenomena, has no role to play in the logical thinking needed to write programs in Assembly language, in my opinion.
Smile
Post 06 Mar 2007, 12:17
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
tom tobias wrote:
Occultism, like any other belief in supernatural phenomena, has no role to play in the logical thinking needed to write programs in Assembly language, in my opinion.
Smile
You're right, that's why XOR EAX, EAX is very logical (and I'm not sarcastic) to clear a register (i.e set it to 0). Cool
Post 06 Mar 2007, 14:18
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Jack



Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 21
Jack
bogdanontanu, thanks for the reply.
apologies for my in-eloquence and poor choice of words, in an effort to be brief and not expound too much detail about my experience, made the statement "I lost it all" rather unclear.
what exactly happened I don't know, but I was in this state of being perfectly filled with love, timelessness but still aware of time, with my spirit's eye I could "see" the amount of my love for GOD which was a small fraction of what it should be, then suddenly my inner constitution split in several pieces and left, now am so empty, doubt ensued and I was attacked by the evil one, doubt is deadly.
not sure I totally agree that GOD does not punish sins, if you read the "Dhammapada" you find some very specific punishments for certain sins, now I know GOD does not judge but the Master does, and he dispenses reward and punishment.
about being steered to Judaism and Kabbalah, bad choice of word.
Post 07 Mar 2007, 02:05
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
greybeast, commenting on the need for logical thinking in assembly language programming, wrote:

that's why XOR EAX, EAX is very logical (and I'm not sarcastic) to clear a register
If I have written that it is illogical, then I was in error. I believe, but no longer remember precisely, that I had indicated NOT that it was illogical, but that it was counterintuitive and UNREADABLE. More importantly, it is WRONG, not because it is illogical, but because it is UNNECESSARY, (since there are MORE READABLE methods to clear a register--MOV EAX, Zero---) and more prone to difficult debugging given a page full of XOR's with ONLY a single intentional Boolean operation among them, i.e. a genuine exclusive OR operation, XOR eax, ecx, where--in that unique situation--the programmer would be obliged to search for a single errant letter in a page full of text, or alternatively, to search for a single typographic error, in an instruction, intended to perform a genuine Boolean operation, among a page full of clearing instructions.
Jack wrote:

not sure I totally agree that GOD does not punish sins,
My knowledge of eastern philosophies is far too limited to adequately debate this point, I believe, in ignorance, that neither LaoZi, nor KongZi attributed to some supernatural power, human frailities, human knowledge, or human behaviour. As far as Gautama is concerned, again, even more dumbly, if that is possible, I believe that his primary focus was directed towards human conduct, human thought, human interaction, without particular attribution to supernatural forces. Certainly we are obliged, in this thread, to focus on Eastern PHILOSOPHY, not religion, as tantrikwizard established at the outset. More importantly, in my opinion, one needs, in the best circumstance, to explain HOW Eastern thinking, is not only different, if it is, from "Western" thinking, but how knowledge of that "different" thought will assist us to create superior assembly language programs.
Post 07 Mar 2007, 11:17
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
tom tobias wrote:
More importantly, in my opinion, one needs, in the best circumstance, to explain HOW Eastern thinking, is not only different, if it is, from "Western" thinking, but how knowledge of that "different" thought will assist us to create superior assembly language programs.
Yes the differences are important. The eastern mindset has almost all but disapeared and become largely westernized. The term 'eastern mindset' doesnt have the same meaning today as it did 500 years ago, the archtypal and collective understanding of the people is largely different today. One of the principals of ancient eastern society is the common understanding of 'one-ness' Even in Hinduism, though not commonly taught or understood today, is the understanding of the 'self' not being seperate from anything. There is (or rather was) the common mantra 'Aham Brahma Asmi' translation 'I am Brahman' intepretation 'I am the supreme consciousness/intellegence/soul' and 'Tat Twam Asi' interpretation 'I am that' or 'That thou art' meaning theres no individual seperate from another thing. It was not uncommon to find practicioners who 'attained' the 'realization' of 'godhood' or realized their union with the absolute/universal soul. In jnana yoga, tantra and buddhism there is no western sort of god diety (the sentient seperative individual) rather there is the absolute (insentient totality/supreme universal soul). The problem, in these systems, is the idea of the individual seperative consciousness and misidentification with the body instead of identification with the soul. The misidentification is caused by the mind, maya or illusion. Often the term 'maya' is interchangable with 'mind', 'nature' and 'illusion'. At the heart of ancient hinduism is also the same belief but has transformed to the belief of personified dieties (no less than 3,000,000 total gods in modern hinduism). If you look hard enough you will find teachers of hinduism that teach from the traditional ideas of the upanishads and do not subscribe to the literal belief of dieties, rather they're metaphor and allegory in nature used to describe different aspects of the human condition.
I'm not sure how the 'we are all one' concept can be used in assembler except for maybe abstract algorithms Laughing Some technologies rely on the quantium machine interaction between consciousness and the processor for certain psychological affects. Laughing I think OO languages can better use eastern philosophies than assembler? Maybe we should consider a thread in evolution and how it applies to self-modifying code Laughing
Post 07 Mar 2007, 21:54
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
Jack wrote:
if you read the "Dhammapada" you find some very specific punishments for certain sins
One must understand the difference between karma and sin as well as the difference between the modern and traditional meanings of karma. 'Sin' suggests an evil sort of deed in which a person is indebited to a diety and must pay in some way to rectify the wrong they have done. There is some confusion about 'karma'. I have meet people that think there is some troll or pixie that keeps their dharma in a magic bag and distributes it when there is a defenciency or karma to keep the person at moral par. Some people think that by doing 'good' acts theyre contributing to 'good' karma and there is some angel above them keeping a checklist of good vs. bad actions and when their bad actions outweigh the good, the pixie or angel will allow bad things to happen to the person to put them back at par. They also believe with an excess of 'good' karmas, the angel will magically alter the universe if by chance a bad thing is going to happen and thereby they avoid suffering affects. Hogwash and poppycock. For the purposes of any practical discussion, karma is a psychological affect rather than a moral debit to diety or an excess/defeciency of positive or negative energy. When a person does 'good' actions, they have a positive outlook on life and will feel better. When a person does 'bad' actions, they have a negative world view and will feel like shit. The 'what goes around comes around' concept of karma is based on a person's disposition. Negative persons will perform negative acts, will see the glass as half-empty and will likely be attracted to negative situations. Positive persons will likely perform positive actions, see the glass as half-full and be attracted to positive situations, thus be happier.
Post 08 Mar 2007, 14:45
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
tantrikwizard wrote:
My question to forum members is 'who subscribes to eastern style philosophies as viable alternatives to western style philosophies?, do you practice such philosophies as a life-style or study them intellectually?, if the philosophy is practiced as a life-style, what, if any changes have you noticed in your life?'


I tend to go by the logic and skepticism, but I think often enough to be skeptical of the skeptics as well. This kind of analisys has led me to some principles in life that are most similar to the ones present in eastern philosophies.

I tend to enjoy learning about these eastern philosophies, tho I can't help notincing, er, male bovine excrement here and there. Perhaps that is unavoidable with all things old and believed in.

Having half of my roots from the east, from my current perspective, I have had some insight in the many mistranslations and general misunderstandings resulting from lack of insight. Perhaps western cultures are all too likely do this kind of thing. Stuff like what bogdanontanu is saying here is pure wisdom, but it takes quite a bit of personal research and whatnot before you get to the point when you profoundly understand it, I guess.

To me personally, all of this is just about behaving correctly in life. Social interactions and things to plan towards tend to have cascading effects and so this is why I think it is so significant to do one's best towards that end.

I have this feeling that there is a lot about eastern cultures that would help me learn about the things that I feel are important in my life, but I am not ready to take it all literately.
Post 09 Mar 2007, 00:27
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