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Would you agree having broadcast-taxes on internet-capable-computers in your country?
yes!
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
no opinion
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
don't know
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
no!
95%
 95%  [ 19 ]
Total Votes : 20

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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
Christ, Germany as well?

In Denmark, it's not a tax but a "license fee". For many years, it's been for TV and Radio only, and you only had to pay if you had a TV or Radio (but you had to pay whether you are able to receive a signal or not, the exception being if you got the TV tuner removed from your TV).

Now they've introduced the "media license" instead, which means that owning any device able to receive radio or TV signal makes you eligible for the license. Owning just about any form of recent cellphone, *b00m*, gotta pay. In addition, having an internet connection with at least 256kbit downstream also means you have to pay.

This is really shitty of them, and is of course only done to scrape as much money together as possible (if I put up a website and claimed that "you have the POSSIBILITY of watching my site, therefore you have to pay me $25 a month!" everybody would of course laugh, but the media license law actually passed).

Fortunately the license is per household, and while it is a law, it's enforced not by the state but by the former (until early nineties or very late nineties iirc) Radio/TV monopoly, www.dr.dk . They don't have any legislation that allows them to enter people's homes, and they still have to prove that you own <whatever_device> in order to make you pay. Pretty bizarre, but means that if you are tough enough to say "Got a warrent? No? Fuck off", you can avoid paying.

Since me and my girlfriend don't use any of their services (we have a TV, but no signal, and use it just for console gaming and DVDs and computer output), I don't think it's fair that we should pay, so we don't - but that's because of the current "license" form.

On the other hand, I actually think that it would be fair if they changed the whole scheme into a tax - if done right. It would need to be substantially lower than the license, since a tax would go from per-household to per-person, and it's literally millions of DKK (hell, even millions if countred in EUR) they'd save by cutting the license administration overhead.

So, why would a tax be fair when a license isn't? Firstly, because we have pretty high quality public service TV and Radio in Denmark, and liberating and 100%-privatizing would lower quality and introduce a shitload of commercials. Second, the license isn't really a license, but "we just call it that to avoid the public outcry that (we think) a tax would cause" - I hate that kind of bullshit.
Post 07 Feb 2007, 10:32
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Back to the topic.

@MCD: What's the punishment for failure to comply with that law? Fine? Jail? Death?

YONG
Post 07 Feb 2007, 13:09
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MCD



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 604
Location: Germany
MCD
YONG wrote:
Back to the topic.

@MCD: What's the punishment for failure to comply with that law? Fine? Jail? Death?

YONG
It's generally a fine and a forced registration for private people, but I guess that if you drive an enterprise with dozens/hundreds of unregisters PCs you probably go to jail too (unless you have a really good lawer).

the enforcement is much the same as f0dder described it for Denmark.
Post 07 Feb 2007, 17:51
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8902
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
to pay tax because the tv/radio could receive signal is really funny.
the government actually use these tools to brainwash us. (they actually use the tv more than us) and the funny thing now is, the cost shifted to us. lmao.

maybe sooner or later, a new tax would comes in, you need to pay certain amount of $$ in order to use A till Z, or english language or mandarin language or etc.

beside hosting $$, domain name registration $$, future, probably those stupid would ask us to pay extra $$ for broadcasting your blog/web on internet.

commercial internet VS open source internet << would come soon...
Post 07 Feb 2007, 18:15
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
MCD wrote:
what do you mean with "tschüss MCD!"
Yah, du hast rechts, aber bei uns, es ist viel besser schreiben chuss, als "auf wiedersehen", und wir wissen nicht "bis zum spater", oder irgendwas die selbe...Unsere kentnisse is zehr wenig (und gehts kleinster jeden tag).
Post 07 Feb 2007, 19:37
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MCD



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 604
Location: Germany
MCD
tom tobias: please stick to english, you german is terrible Very Happy
or are you seriously interested in the german language? Confused
Post 07 Feb 2007, 20:40
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
tom: somehow, i can understand most of written german. But i hate this language (no offense). I don't find you germand that bad.....
Post 07 Feb 2007, 21:21
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cod3b453



Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 619
cod3b453
Deutsch ist meine Lieblingsfremdsprache! Sondern hatte ich nur ein "B" bekommen für meiner letzter Prüfung also könnte ich den Artikel fast nichts verstehen, weil meine Sprachkentnisse so schlecht ist. Sad

Sounds like a bad tax both by definition and the effect it could have on entire electrical goods/services market...not to mention the "get-rich-quick" factor.

Luckily here in the UK, they're only concerened with TV, radio is free, which is nice, but the TV licence people constantly harass you to check. As for possible-streamed-data-tax-to-sponge-money, that would cause a riot...
Post 07 Feb 2007, 23:19
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MCD



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 604
Location: Germany
MCD
I'm trying to correct you Wink
Quote:
Deutsch ist meine Lieblingsfremdsprache! Ich hatte nur ein "B" bekommen bei meiner letzten Prüfung, also konnte ich den Artikel fast nicht verstehen, weil meine Sprachkentnisse so schlecht waren. Sad

the above is still a very strange, unfamiliar german syntax, so I have also a restrucured version:
Quote:

Deutsch ist meine Lieblingsfremdsprache! Ich hatte bei meiner letzten Prüfung nur ein "B" bekommen, (so dass)/(wesshalb) ich den Artikel fast nicht verstehen konnte, weil meine Sprachkentnisse so schlecht waren. Sad


German is a strange language. concider the following facts about the german grammar:
-lots of conjugation (of verbs) and declension (of objects), but almost no inclension (of nouns) (unlike many slavic languages), e.g. inclension only for anti log, not for case, gender only in articles and adjectives
-contrary to most latin-based languages, it not only has suffix-rules, but also prefix, circumfix and root-rules besides some completely irregular verbs
-you can build arbitrary long nouns by concatenating any nouns that are general enough and have a pairwise relationship (like a linked list). see this nice example "forced" upon the english language:
the toy of the cat of the neighbourhood <=> neighbourhoodcattoy
-only language that capitalizes every noun, regardless if it's an object or subject, substantivated verb, infinitive or ordinal or whatever
-the sentence structure is much more flexible, but also more complicated than the more simpler english "subject verb object" (SVO) form. It is especially famous for its nesting of relative and sub-clauses and the special constructions available for that.
-almost no one ever manages to learn when to exactly put a comma nor when multiple verbs need to be written in 1 word or not

tom tobias: I've tried to correct your sentence too, but I was not able to guess the meaning of the part in the middle.

_________________
MCD - the inevitable return of the Mad Computer Doggy

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Post 08 Feb 2007, 03:59
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
cod3b453 wrote:
Luckily here in the UK, they're only concerened with TV, radio is free, which is nice, but the TV licence people constantly harass you to check. As for possible-streamed-data-tax-to-sponge-money, that would cause a riot...

At least the BBC is a serious TV and makes serious use of that money. How much is it per year, by the way?
In Italy we spend about 105 Euro per year to get the crappiest you may ever imagine, and almost no cultural/science programs at all.

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 08 Feb 2007, 09:05
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
MCD wrote:
[about the German language]-contrary to most latin-based languages, it not only has suffix-rules, but also prefix, circumfix and root-rules besides some completely irregular verbs

Wasn't it a saxon language? Wink

AFAIK latin is Italian, French, Spanish, Portughese, Romanian.

Saxon is German, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Icelandic.

Slavic is Polish, Hungarian, Finnish (perkeeelesataaanaa =) ), Serbian, etc.. etc..

English in my eyes (or ears) is saxon but with a lot of words borrowed from latin as well (I mean, although the grammar is more saxon than latin (if anything), most words have two versions, one saxon and one latin, e.g. luck/fortune, speed/velocity, etc.. etc..).

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 08 Feb 2007, 09:09
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Maverick: Hungarian and Finnish are ?ugrofinnish? languages, FAR from slavic. Have you ever heard hungarian? Hungarian even sounds terrible for most (slovak) people i know.
Post 08 Feb 2007, 09:13
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7724
Location: Kraków, Poland
Tomasz Grysztar
Finno-Ugric languages are even not an Indo-European ones.
Post 08 Feb 2007, 11:11
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
Yup, in fact Hungarian language looks like machine code. =)

BTW: so Finnish people are Slavic but don't speak a Slavic language?
Post 08 Feb 2007, 11:50
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cod3b453



Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 619
cod3b453
@MCD: Thank you for the correction, my sentence pretty much proved itself Laughing

@Maverick: Before the BBC dumbed down it news and weather a few years ago I would agree it was a top quality service, considering we only got 4 channels (2 BBC, 2 independant) there was usually something for everyone.

I couldn't believe that our TV was so different from everywhere else the first time I saw other european TV networks, even though most had more channels, there was nothing on.

I guess that's why other countries are so interested in BBC broadcasts...

I think TV licences are about £130 here so ~€190 - I don't know exactly, because I don't have a TV and so am being harrassed by the TV licencing people at this very moment Very Happy I think it's free when you're over 65 too.
Post 08 Feb 2007, 13:01
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
Patience, I'll wait to be 65 then (currently I am exactly halfway!). Wink

Well, I'm not so updated on the BBC thing.. but when me and my wife were at our honeymoon (in the beautiful Scotland) I was impressed by the quality. Yes, it's been a few years ago already.. and nearly 2 kids ago, too. Smile
Post 08 Feb 2007, 14:16
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
Maverick:
Maverick wrote:
BTW: so Finnish people are Slavic but don't speak a Slavic language?
No, Finnish people aren't Slavic. Very Happy Here are European countries, where Slavs are majority:
  • Poland,
  • Russia,
  • Byelorussia,
  • Ukraine,
  • Czech Republic,
  • Slovakia,
  • Slovenia (Maverick, they are Your neighbours! Smile ),
  • Croatia,
  • Serbia,
  • Bosnia and Herzegovina,
  • Montenegro,
  • Macedonia (FYROM),
  • Bulgaria.
There are also small groups of Sorabians (Northern Serbs), which live in Eastern Germany near Polish and Czech border.

I hope, that I didn't forget anybody! Very Happy See this link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples
Post 08 Feb 2007, 15:46
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
I'd agree BBC is by far the best I've seen but I also like to see the German point of view with DW TV. Amazing how Britain and Germany are from the same area of the world yet are two totally different types of people, both brilliant cultures but very different from an outsiders view half way around the world.

As for U.S television, it's like they are from a totally different planet and Fox news, my god it's hard to believe folks from the US are conned by all the lies and bullshit on that station but at least it's easy to see why the average U.S citizen believes the world wants to nuke them and they must kill everyone to protect themselves. I guess that's the brilliant US "democracy" (cough) we have to thank for that.
Post 08 Feb 2007, 20:14
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Maverick wrote:
MCD wrote:
[about the German language]-contrary to most latin-based languages, it not only has suffix-rules, but also prefix, circumfix and root-rules besides some completely irregular verbs

Wasn't it a saxon language? Wink

AFAIK latin is Italian, French, Spanish, Portughese, Romanian.

Saxon is German, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Icelandic.

Slavic is Polish, Hungarian, Finnish (perkeeelesataaanaa =) ), Serbian, etc.. etc..

English in my eyes (or ears) is saxon but with a lot of words borrowed from latin as well (I mean, although the grammar is more saxon than latin (if anything), most words have two versions, one saxon and one latin, e.g. luck/fortune, speed/velocity, etc.. etc..).


(The following may be incorrect, this is from memory ...)

English is derived from Middle English (Chaucer) which is basically readable with oddball spelling. Old English, however, (e.g., Beowulf) is quite FAR removed from that even (hence, I don't/can't understand any of it). That may be what "Anglo-Saxon" usually refers to colloquially, but I'm unsure. (Actually, I think English mostly comes from true Anglo-Saxon and Old French, circa William the Conqueror ... and yet, still I'm told that 60% of English comes from Latin (even though it's a Germanic language, not Romance).
Post 08 Feb 2007, 22:50
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
http://www.krysstal.com/english.html
Kryss Katsiavriades and Talaat Qureshi wrote:

The history of the language can be traced back to the arrival of three Germanic tribes to the British Isles during the 5th Century AD. Angles, Saxons and Jutes crossed the North Sea from what is the present day Denmark and northern Germany. The inhabitants of Britain previously spoke a Celtic language. This was quickly displaced. Most of the Celtic speakers were pushed into Wales, Cornwall and Scotland. One group migrated to the Brittany Coast of France where their descendants still speak the Celtic Language of Breton today. The Angles were named from Engle, their land of origin. Their language was called Englisc from which the word, English derives.

An Anglo-Saxon inscription dated between 450 and 480AD is the oldest sample of the English language....The Viking invasions of the 9th Century ..... By the 10th Century, the West Saxon dialect became the official language of Britain. Written Old English is mainly known from this period. It was written in an alphabet called Runic, derived from the Scandinavian languages. The Latin Alphabet was brought over from Ireland by Christian missionaries. This has remained the writing system of English.
At this time, the vocabulary of Old English consisted of an Anglo Saxon base with borrowed words from the Scandinavian languages (Danish and Norse) and Latin. Latin gave English words like street, kitchen, kettle, cup, cheese, wine, angel, bishop, martyr, candle. The Vikings added many Norse words: sky, egg, cake, skin, leg, window (wind eye), husband, fellow, skill, anger, flat, odd, ugly, get, give, take, raise, call, die, they, their, them. Celtic words also survived mainly in place and river names (Devon, Dover, Kent, Trent, Severn, Avon, Thames).
Post 09 Feb 2007, 12:13
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