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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Certainly, there was whole bunch of jesuses. It was one of most common name in that place/time anyway. But how many of them did miracles, talked with god, etc.. is questionable.
Post 27 Sep 2007, 17:14
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
edfed wrote:
now it is the time of technology
and the new bible name is INTERNET


If talking of any universal truths, please bare in mind that you are basing all of this on westeren culture, which is a little limited in most aspects.

The science and political philosophies of freedom, etc, are all just reactions to a previous time and are not something worked on and pollished trough thousands of years like in other cultures. The previous time was controlling so now we are pretending to be free, the previous time was war so now we are pretending to be peace, the previous time was mindless following the crowd, so now we are pretending to be all intelectuals. Some of us may actually believe it, but the ones that came up with it think of it as stupid because they never really meant it for themselves.

It's like little children, first insist on something stupid, then find out it's wrong and then claim to be a part of the dirrect opposite so you can point and laugh. This isn't something to found a new era upon. We are still FAR from being right.
Post 28 Sep 2007, 08:57
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
The science and political philosophies of freedom, etc, are all just reactions to a previous time and are not something worked on and pollished trough thousands of years like in other cultures.

actually, they date AT LEAST to 500 BCE in Greece, but they were practically destroyed and censored in about 400 CE, when christians took power in Rome.

And, age of such discipline as science has nothing to do with how close to truth it is. There is thousand year tradition of flat earth and time passing constantly, yet it is not truth.

Quote:
This isn't something to found a new era upon.

well, it is. Until now, all ideologies (religions) tought us to "use our heart to find truth", and to respect some kind of authority (scripture, pope) about what is truth. Basically that means people were basing their opinions on their social status (authorities), and on their feelings (heart), both of which can be manipulated and exploited. Also vast majority of religion regarded some old scripture as complete source of truth, without any tendencies to get more understanding of truth.

Science started to base percieving of truth on methods which are way less fallable than those used with religion, and demonstrated how good these methods are by proving religions wrong in many points, by understanding things about this world that were unknown before, and by actualy using these results for something practical.

Methods of looking for truth used in religion (revelations, scripture, emotions) are provably not correct, just by bare number of existing contradicting religions, of which 99% has to be wrong for the rest to be true. This alone is good way to prove that those methods simply doesn't work any better than random choice.
Post 28 Sep 2007, 09:27
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
vid wrote:
And, age of such discipline as science has nothing to do with how close to truth it is. There is thousand year tradition of flat earth and time passing constantly, yet it is not truth.


If when you first read something, it does not appear to make sense, try again. When talking about philosophical stuff I leave many things open to interpretation, since I can't put everything into words well and different people have different perspectives... so it takes a little faith that somebody Might actually understand what I was saying.

In simpler terms, I was not refering to time, but rather the polishing proccess. It's what happens when a certian reaction gets distorted and then a mechanism springs up to prevent that from happening again, that in several hundred itterations. It's these protective mechanisms that form the system that you call religion.

Take abstract philosophy back 5000 years and wait until now. All the bases would have been covered, including the ones that modern science does not care to approach. Not talking about the paranormal here, but take say... long term interactions within a social group. In science most things are called a little different and most abstract concepts interpreted differently, yet both religion and science are describing the same thing, where religion approaches subjects more important to human beings and science in it's current phase, approaches wildly irrelevant subjects.

Quote:
Science started to base percieving of truth on methods which are way less fallable than those used with religion, and demonstrated how good these methods are by proving religions wrong in many points, by understanding things about this world that were unknown before, and by actualy using these results for something practical.


This would have been true if science was just science. But it isn't. Science is mainstream science. It may not have a political figure like the (godforbid you picked this damn thing to set an example for all the other religions) christian church, but it does have a retarded leadership which is the exact same safety mechanism that most religions developed. A Commitey Of Truth.

Quote:
Methods of looking for truth used in religion (revelations, scripture, emotions) are provably not correct, just by bare number of existing contradicting religions, of which 99% has to be wrong for the rest to be true. This alone is good way to prove that those methods simply doesn't work any better than random choice.


I am not saying doing something in terms which most people do not understand well as opposed to doing them in understandable ones makes it any more true. I'm just saying that there are aspects in religion which dwell deeper into subjects that mainstream science does not approach, for reasons like "X is already an ensablished science, so we will not bother to use our knowledge in Y to explain our Z, X can't be wrong". If still uncomfortable replace X with say psychology, Y with neuroscience and Z with brain functions and voila, but of course this applies in many other areas.

I might especially point out the understanding of very complex social interactions from which religion has been able to extrapolate and define a set of axioms for. So X is sociology, Y is the 10 commandments and Z is society. How about that?
Post 28 Sep 2007, 10:05
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
the human being was, is and will alway be a little animal
our big problem is the brain, we all think we are superior
but we are nothing in the universe
only littles bacteries on a little dust of the universe

that's all
Post 28 Sep 2007, 11:17
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
In simpler terms, I was not refering to time, but rather the polishing proccess. It's what happens when a certian reaction gets distorted and then a mechanism springs up to prevent that from happening again, that in several hundred itterations. It's these protective mechanisms that form the system that you call religion.

i don't agree that it is polishing which forms religion. There are early religions that haven't gone through polishing process.

By the way, have you noticed that almost all polishing which was done on christianity since science was created, was polishing to make religion more in tune with science? Isn't it suspicious? Maybe people naturally follow logic, and religions have to retreat in order to keep up?

Quote:
Take abstract philosophy back 5000 years and wait until now.

There would be thousands offspring philosophies, each with arguments as good as any other. But there will still be one science, unified movement to approach truth, not to defend what we want to be truth.

Quote:
All the bases would have been covered, including the ones that modern science does not care to approach.

carefully: not "does not care". Science does not approach only areas, in which there is no way to produce satisfying result.

Quote:
Not talking about the paranormal here, but take say...

what do you understand as "paranormal". I quess it is same as "supernatural". Well, term "supernatural" evolved after term "natural" evolved, and that was when science describing laws of nature was created. Term "supernatural" (paranormal) marks something that doesn't fit natural laws.

One thing most people miss there is that natural laws are formed to explain all existing observations, so "supernatural" is by definition something not yet observed.

Of course only provable satisfactory valid observations are taken into account, otherwise you will have to try to explain all those observations of pink unicorns and spaghetti monsters. That wouldn't get you any closer to truth.

Quote:
In science most things are called a little different and most abstract concepts interpreted differently, yet both religion and science are describing the same thing, where religion approaches subjects more important to human beings and science in it's current phase, approaches wildly irrelevant subjects.

Religion is not "approaching" anything. It is usually simple set of beliefs derived from some doubtly texts. These sets are unchanging within religion (until some offspring religion changes these texts, as is customary for most religions)

What of science's focus is irrelevant? Relativity? Not if we want space travel. Quantum mechanics? Not for miniature machines, eg. computers. Let me know what of science's focus is irrelevant to humans please. I bet i would find much many more really irrelevant subjects in bible than in sciences, like how many layers of haven are there, description of fantasy beasts, false genealogies, etc...
Post 28 Sep 2007, 21:55
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shakuni



Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 24
shakuni
God is a concept created by some intelligent humans,a few centuries ago, when they saw the human tendency to seek someone whom they can depend on no matter what.This concept of God satisfies their this need.
It's(God) is an example of simultaneous invention cause it was invented by many independently at the same time.
If you beleive in yourself there is no need to take refuge to this concept.But the question is-
Do you beleive in yourself?
Can you stand alone?
Post 13 Oct 2007, 10:12
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bogdanontanu



Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Location: Sol. Earth. Europe. Romania. Bucuresti
bogdanontanu
Quote:

Can you stand alone?

Yes.
Post 13 Oct 2007, 17:25
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
YONG, in Feb 2007, wrote:
Here is my definition of God:

God, if exists, is a supernatural being that will cure, by 2007-02-02 23:59:59 (whatever time zone you like), ALL patients in the world who are suffering from spinal cord injuries and hence completely paralysed down the neck.

Hope that all such patients will recover and be walking by tomorrow.
A wise man wrote:
Miracles do exist, but they are all made by men, not by God!
Check out this article.

I wish the aforementioned research could bring hope to all those patients longing for a miracle!

Wink
Post 20 Jan 2012, 07:18
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
after 5 years,
hopefully everybody will reach their own god status soon.

instead of seeking god externally, maybe we should just seek god internally, and you will find that we are god after all.
Post 20 Jan 2012, 11:35
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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Location: Toronto, Canada
AsmGuru62
@sleepsleep: agree completely!
Post 20 Jan 2012, 15:20
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
yep, god is us. god is an effect of the randomness and very long duration of universe. when time is very long, anything can be source of life. just need adequate materials and conditions to get life. even a homeless guy can do that in his shoes Laughing

the walking dead post!!! 4 years and 3 months since last post... Smile
Post 20 Jan 2012, 16:26
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matefkr



Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 1291
Location: Ukraine, Beregovo
matefkr
As long as the first definition holds, then its a contradiction.
Because total power would mean power to do anything. Like to create something which can't be destroyed. Its obviously paradox.

Further more, it is true that either the whole of the universe (that is including everything) is stupid, or there is no god which can see everything in every moment. I explain. For an Entity be it god or whatever, to "see" something or know about it, have to store information about it. And if that thing to be seen in every moment is the whole of the material part of the universe, that would mean storing information, about it (in the entity itself, god in this case.). So that would mean, that the material part of the universe (our part) would be exactly copied in God, and above that there would be other part responsible for the God-ly porperties, like maybe even all the past and future as well stored. That would make our part of the universe useless, since copies are useless, if there is nothing out there. (and out of the universe, there is nothing more). That implies, that either the universe is stupid, since there is useless puncutal repetitious infirmation in it, or there is no such thing as a god knowing and seeing everything, so to speak, we are part of it. And since we are part of it, the whole of it is not realy above us in power, we define it (and of course other part of the universe).
Post 26 Jan 2012, 11:27
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
God = the most high spiritual entity with a purpose for each and every one of us, his creation in his own image.

He gave us the ability to love and hate, all free wills.

Even the devil and all evil spirits know of his existence. Until you open your heart and let the holy spirit connect your soul to him, he'll remain a "mistery" to you yet loving you still.
Post 26 Jan 2012, 11:49
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
Most likely, there is no God or Devil or Spirits (evil or othersiwe) - it is just us and the Universe.
Post 26 Jan 2012, 11:55
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
typedef wrote:
He gave us the ability to love and hate, all free wills.


How can free will and hate co-exist ? Sounds very oxymorous.
Post 26 Jan 2012, 15:54
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
AsmGuru62 wrote:
Most likely, there is no God or Devil or Spirits (evil or othersiwe) - it is just us and the Universe.


"Us" is atoms, the 4.6% of the universe.
Dark matter and dark energy tho, is the rest of it.
Don't make such assumptions and never say never.
Post 26 Jan 2012, 16:02
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
there is no god..
all ur bible, quran, torah, bla bla, coming from human mouth, and they CLAIM what they speak are from dog, opps god.

human dont need those books to learn bout god.

just view things around u, then u will appreciate the designs of every thing.

if god ever exist, i can firmly said, nobody will be let know about its existence.

the law how this whole galaxy, universe, bigger galaxy works is just atom bit size we struggle to understand.

there exist living law in this life, karma, u do shit to others, then u will get da shit back from others.

god is like the cat experiment, u woulnt know unless u open it..but the real problem is, we dont know wat to open, how to open, and we have no ability to open.
Post 26 Jan 2012, 16:36
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
i am more comfortable to believe human is bio-engineered product by alien species.

we are bio robot.

the alien create us but the life is given by law of universe which exist before nothing.

we even face problem to define who we are, what we are, what is conscious, where we go.

when we create virtual world, link it with ourselve, then virtual and reality is just a thin line.

When we able to code our bio brain another reality or illusion, then u tell me, wat are u?
Post 26 Jan 2012, 16:52
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
asmhack wrote:
typedef wrote:
He gave us the ability to love and hate, all free wills.


How can free will and hate co-exist ? Sounds very oxymorous.


When I said gave us, I meant he "authorized" it, or let it manifest but that is not his doings. That's the devil's doings because all he ever was is love itself not hate.

Hate became when Adam & Eve sinned.
Post 26 Jan 2012, 17:42
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