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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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Location: usa
tom tobias
Ozzy wrote:
Also, why people try to make Gods look like humans. Why God can't be a cat or a dog or a plant? People think the world was made just for humans. People are dumb and think they're smart.

oops:
RedGhost, addressing the question of quantity of Gods, wrote:

Just one, me. When I look into the mirror I see him in all his beauty and glory.

God is a supernatural being of anthropomorphic dimension, with powers that (1) defy rational explanation, (2) are evoked upon command by certain, special humans, and (3) manifest after the fact. The notion of God, originated with humans' attempt to explain birth, life, death, suffering, sorrow, mystery and nuance, including speciation, commerce, dance, art, and music. The refutation of God's existence is an educational chore of considerable magnitude, underestimated by those accustomed to solving problems in a systematic fashion, e.g. FASM forumers. One problem in explaining the non-existence of something fervently regarded, is the conviction of true believers that sensory input to the brain can not be trusted. More than half of the citizens of USA not only accept the existence of this fictitious, anthropomorphic entity, but also repudiate their own vision, hearing, and other sensory modalities, if presented with data contradicting these ardently held beliefs. In my own family, I am the only non-believer: siblings, parents, and extended family members not only accept as valid the myth of God, they repudiate any data which casts doubt on the veracity of the ancient myths and legends to which they have grown accustomed. Any discussion of the situation with family members leads to their anger, as the confluence of belief and tradition collide with verifiable data repudiating cherished doctrines. In the end they grab Coors light, and return to watching the football game on the television, while I insist upon Pilsner Urquel, and return to the basketball court to joust with the twelve year old nieces, since I can still bully them under the basket. I have abandoned my attempt to convert adult family members to beer with genuine taste and aroma. They PREFER the diluted flavor and diminished olfactory input from USA manufactured, sloppy, shabby, "cheap" merchandise, including not just beer, but automobiles, houses, clothing, and politicians. They ENJOY mediocrity, and they dislike sharp, pungent, spicy, flavourful food, beverage, or crisply delineated ideas. I can no more convince them to TRY Havarti cheese, or Turkish eggplant (Imam Bayildi) or Lengua al mole, or Baba Ganoush, than I can convince them to consider data which renders ALL religious tracts obsolete--i.e.any introductory Biology textbook, explaining evolution and molecular genetics. In their minds, there is a link between Satan, (an evil, omnipotent entity of supernatural power,) and my questions challenging their delusions. The situation is not that dissimilar from my attempt to convert FASM forum to accept MOV eax, zero, rather than XOR, except that here on the forum, there are no 12 year old girls, for me to push and shove out of the way, as I use my 35 cm height advantage over them for God's intended purpose: to put the ball through the hoop by any means necessary.
Smile
Post 02 Feb 2007, 07:13
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farrier



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 274
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farrier
My advice in a discussion such as this: "Never let religion interfere with your relationship with God"

The death and misery attributed to God in this--and the other--threads, would better be attributed to religions!

farrier

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Post 02 Feb 2007, 08:00
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
Here is my definition of God:

God, if exists, is a supernatural being that will cure, by 2007-02-02 23:59:59 (whatever time zone you like), ALL patients in the world who are suffering from spinal cord injuries and hence completely paralysed down the neck.

Hope that all such patients will recover and be walking by tomorrow.

YONG
Post 02 Feb 2007, 13:33
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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rugxulo
If you are not God, the only way you can know what He's thinking is if He shows you (directly or indirectly). If He is perfect, then you cannot say, "He should do this or that" or "He shouldn't do this" because that would be a blind man telling a man with 20/20 vision where to go (from your view, it looks good ... but from His, not necessarily).

We all want to be cured of infirmities (and right now, dang it!), but if we develop a little patience, we might understand and/or believe that such things are permitted for a good reason (spiritual health trumps physical health anyday).

"Be not impatient in prayers."
Post 03 Feb 2007, 04:08
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
i could feel that we probably underestimate our brain power Smile brain wave, it should able to performs more superior than wi-fi imho.
Post 03 Feb 2007, 10:45
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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kohlrak
Quote:
You will get many differing opinions on whether 'god' is metaphore or literal being. Kookoos like rugxulo clearly take it literally. My personal belief, based on several years of research in comparitive religion, the origin of gods in most systems were to be taken literal. It seems intellegent people believe 'god' to be metaphore while kookoos seem to fall for it literally.


The "metaphore" that i was talking about wasn't "god" but "god is love."

Quote:
i could feel that we probably underestimate our brain power brain wave, it should able to performs more superior than wi-fi imho.


See above and you'll understand why i might "underestimate" a human's brain power. Obviously some "non-kookoos" can't identify what i thought was obvious.

Quote:
If you are not God, the only way you can know what He's thinking is if He shows you (directly or indirectly). If He is perfect, then you cannot say, "He should do this or that" or "He shouldn't do this" because that would be a blind man telling a man with 20/20 vision where to go (from your view, it looks good ... but from His, not necessarily).

We all want to be cured of infirmities (and right now, dang it!), but if we develop a little patience, we might understand and/or believe that such things are permitted for a good reason (spiritual health trumps physical health anyday).

"Be not impatient in prayers."


I was always left under the impression that God is willing to let people suffer to prove that he makes decisions, not us, and that every time we tell him what to do he'll do differently just to spite us.

Since when does an enseign (sp?) tell an admiral what to do? Think of it that way.
Post 04 Feb 2007, 02:11
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OzzY



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
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OzzY
Quote:

I was always left under the impression that God is willing to let people suffer to prove that he makes decisions, not us, and that every time we tell him what to do he'll do differently just to spite us.

It happens very often to me. That's one reason I don't have faith.
Post 04 Feb 2007, 02:27
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kohlrak



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kohlrak
Assuming that there is a god, though i beleive there is one, we must remember that s/he would not be perfect in how we see perfect. Just cause we whine, dosn't mean there needs to be an answer for it. If you find yourself dieing and are afraid to die, perhaps it is for your benefit to die. We are not always right in how we see certain situations. Sometimes, we could be years past an incident, and still not see the whole story, and how we may have actually benefited from the "horrible outcome." Perhaps, the suffering of our own is for the better of more than one person, or such. If there is such a being, then we are as s/he wants, not s/he being what we want. I find that to be, surprisingly, a hard concept for many people.
Post 04 Feb 2007, 02:33
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
It is now crystal clear that, according to my definition, God does NOT exist.

Hope that advancement in medical science and bio-technology will, some day, cure all those patients.

Miracles do exist, but they are ALL created by man, not God.

YONG
Post 05 Feb 2007, 12:20
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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rugxulo
Ozzy wrote:

kohlrak wrote:

I was always left under the impression that God is willing to let people suffer to prove that he makes decisions, not us, and that every time we tell him what to do he'll do differently just to spite us.


It happens very often to me. That's one reason I don't have faith.


The common saying is that "God always answers, but sometimes the answer is no." It is definitely NOT spite but wisdom. I can personally attest that God/Jesus exists, is the purest good, and does often answer prayers (see the four Gospels). However, a lot of things he does without us asking, but some things require it. "Prayer is a condition set by God to obtain grace."

BTW, you can indeed pray for faith. However, there are some things that could harm it (see Catechism).

YONG wrote:

Miracles do exist, but they are ALL created by man, not God.


A miracle is an immediate answer to a prayer, especially in a way that cannot be explained by science. (Every saint canonized these days by the Catholic Church must be represented by at least two miracles due to their intercession with God. See The Wedding at Cana. Also see Mother Theresa)

Albert Einstein wrote:

There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.
Post 05 Feb 2007, 19:40
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
rugxulo wrote:
... I can personally attest that God/Jesus exists, is the purest good, and does often answer prayers ...

We need more than your personal attestation. We need CONCRETE, VERIFIABLE evidence!

Having said that, I still respect your faith. Smile

YONG
Post 06 Feb 2007, 12:17
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
i personally believe jesus is a prophet/messenger sent by God Smile
during his lifetime on earth, he prays also to God, he is only a human, well, like us, eat, drink, toilet and etc Smile

and jesus never ask people to pray to him Smile he asked people to pray to God Smile
Post 06 Feb 2007, 15:28
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
sleepsleep wrote:
and jesus never ask people to pray to him

Zoroaster, Jesus, Mohammed, Socrates, Alexander of Macedonia, KongZi (Confucius), and many, many other brilliant men and women may or may not have said many wonderful things, problem is, we have no data.
We don't know what any of them said. We rely on rumors, gossip, and third party biographies......
So, for all we know, Jesus DID ask people to acknowledge his godliness, however, you are surely correct, in so far as we know from the "bible", according to the "saints" around Jesus, all of whom denounced him to the Romans, yes, you are correct, Jesus, according to those sources, written AT LEAST four decades after his death, did not claim to demand that ordinary people treat him as a supernatural being. What we tend to forget, in these days of "enlightenment" is that back then, PEOPLE DIED for writing the wrong thing. Someone who wrote that xyz was incorrect, DIED as a result---->"heresy" Today, we suggest, "no, the person is simply off on a tangent, incorrect, mistaken, in error, etc." Back then, PEOPLE WERE KILLED for their beliefs. A mere five hundred years ago, (not two thousand years ago), Nicholas Copernicus was so frightened, NOT ONLY FOR HIS OWN life, but for the lives of his FAMILY, that he plagiarized Aristarchus, copies of whose publications on heliocentrism, Copernicus studied while living in Venice, attending medical school at the university there. Copernicus deliberately WAITED twenty years, until his death bed, to publish his summary of Aristarchus' research, AND NEGLECTED, deliberately, to include reference to Aristarchus, out of fear that the religious, (Catholic, Inquisition) authorities would murder him and his family, if it became common knowledge that he had incorporated the writings of an atheist in refuting the biblical version of geocentrism. We today, forget how many people DIED, defending the idea of freedom of speech. Surely, in the 18th century, anyone who wrote of King George, as I write of George Bush, would have been hung for treason. Many, many people in USA DIED fighting for the right to express oneself, openly, without fear of murder or assassination in retribution. Bottom line: we do not KNOW, what Jesus said, or what he believed, or how he lived, or anything else about him. We only know the fairy tales in the bible, all of which were "doctored" in the Nicean convention, by Emperor Constantine, who tidied up the inconsistencies, and manufactured a pablum for all of us children to swallow....
Post 06 Feb 2007, 21:15
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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rugxulo
Who is it that keeps telling you that the Bible isn't true? Why do you believe such people? What have they proven? What can they do that is so pure and holy that they deny God Himself? If you can't trust the most authoritative source (Scripture), who will you trust? Is everyone a liar just because a few are? Is it really that impossible to believe?

John 14:6 wrote:

Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, then you will also know my Father. From now on you do know him and have seen him." Philip said to him, "Master, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves. Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father. And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. In a little while the world will no longer see me, but you will see me, because I live and you will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father and you are in me and I in you. Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him."


1 Corinthians 15:3 wrote:

For I handed on to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures; that he was buried; that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures; that he appeared to Cephas, then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one born abnormally, he appeared to me. For I am the least of the apostles, not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me has not been ineffective. Indeed, I have toiled harder than all of them; not I, however, but the grace of God (that is) with me.


Luke 22:37 wrote:

For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, namely, 'He was counted among the wicked'; and indeed what is written about me is coming to fulfillment." Then they said, "Lord, look, there are two swords here." But he replied, "It is enough!" Then going out he went, as was his custom, to the Mount of Olives, and the disciples followed him. When he arrived at the place he said to them, "Pray that you may not undergo the test." After withdrawing about a stone's throw from them and kneeling, he prayed, saying, "Father, if you are willing, take this cup away from me; still, not my will but yours be done." (And to strengthen him an angel from heaven appeared to him. He was in such agony and he prayed so fervently that his sweat became like drops of blood falling on the ground.) When he rose from prayer and returned to his disciples, he found them sleeping from grief. He said to them, "Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not undergo the test." While he was still speaking, a crowd approached and in front was one of the Twelve, a man named Judas. He went up to Jesus to kiss him. Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?" His disciples realized what was about to happen, and they asked, "Lord, shall we strike with a sword?" And one of them struck the high priest's servant and cut off his right ear. But Jesus said in reply, "Stop, no more of this!" Then he touched the servant's ear and healed him. And Jesus said to the chief priests and temple guards and elders who had come for him, "Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs? Day after day I was with you in the temple area, and you did not seize me; but this is your hour, the time for the power of darkness." After arresting him they led him away and took him into the house of the high priest;


John 21:25 wrote:

There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.


John 1:14 wrote:

And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth. John [the Baptist] testified to him and cried out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'The one who is coming after me ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.'" From his fullness we have all received, grace in place of grace, because while the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God, who is at the Father's side, has revealed him.


EDIT: God is transcendant, i.e. you cannot see Him unless He reveals Himself.
Post 06 Feb 2007, 22:12
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Plue



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 151
Plue
God is the
huge
omnipresent
omnipotent
piece of love that we aren't allowed to kick without care

Edit: Hey, why did bullshit turn into love?
Post 08 Feb 2007, 20:29
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
god is not a person nand a soul
it's all the totallity of the space-time and more
iy is .
Post 22 Sep 2007, 02:09
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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DustWolf
edfed wrote:
god is not a person nand a soul
it's all the totallity of the space-time and more
iy is .


One who believes in it already needs no special defenition to make it any more real. Yet pointing that out to a group of people who do not believe is not very productive.

The defenition of god that I have sortof utilized to help me understand what the religious feelings are about and thus make it gain proper respect in my eyes (not that I don't usually respect... it's just that pure nonsense cannot be respected out of hand IMHO) is that "God" is the universal entitiy (e.g.: "the Everything", defined as an entitiy). This sortof meets what I've been able to determine from litterature.. at least in spirit and it also happens to make all those statements about what god did make sense.
Post 24 Sep 2007, 22:11
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
yeah yeah

GOD is a sex machine
GOD is the reason of religion?
NO! the reason of religion is the power
GOD is like an argument to help in soumission acceptance
My cat don't believe in god, a tree don't care about brain

But Human care about power and is able to invent all he can to fuck his sisters and brothers

So GOD is all THE SPACE TIME and RELIGION use this to maintain people in fear

an GOD is a word too like ALLAH, DIEU, DEUS, RAEL;-)
Post 27 Sep 2007, 13:47
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Quote:
Who is it that keeps telling you that the Bible isn't true? Why do you believe such people? What have they proven?

I don't know how you define "bible is true", but many parts of bible are proven not to be truth. I quess this doesn't prove that "bible isn't true" for YOU, but if parts of what should be errorless god's word is obviously not true, then it is suspicous for most sane people.
Post 27 Sep 2007, 15:06
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
the bible is the "first" book
it is intended to share the knowledge and a certain phylosophy over centuries with all peoples
it contains fictions, style tries, anectods and many others media
Today it's named a news paper or an almanach

but many people used that like an absolute truth to slave the peoples
don't you remember inquisition? it was the past
all these things are in the past
now it is the time of technology
and the new bible name is INTERNET

perhaps one day in the future, einstein will become the new prophet

the autor of the book will laugh in his tomb


but i need to tell something, jesus existed, he really was the son of god ..... like everybody is
Post 27 Sep 2007, 15:52
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