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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Someone here has good experience with this brand of hard disks? Certainly I don't... First a WD2000JS (a 200 GB SATA 2nd generation hard disk) suddenly failed after two months without any previous warning (i.e. SMART allways reported a very healthy disk), and now my second WD disk which is the RMA of the previous (so, again a WD2000JS) after exactly one year of use started to report some errors (this time the SMART have the decency to tell something). The worst of all is that I can't run the quick test anymore because it permanetly fails with READ ELEMENT FAILURE error. The diagnostic tool says that I have to run the full media scan to solve this issue, the scanning found errors and repeared them but again the quick test is unavailable so I patiently ran the full media scan again, this time reported no errors but the fucking READ ELEMENT FAILURE stills there and the diagnostics tool insist that I must run the media scan. This endless loop indicates that I have to replace the disk but I'm so tired of this brand and it's so complicated to do the RMA myself (the computer store's waranty expired some months ago) that I'll keep meanwhile I find a replacement.

Well, if I suddenly disappear from this forum it means that the HD is not working anymore and I'm searching for replacement...

Cheers

PS: Maybe the reason of such bad quality disk is not the brand but the quality standars of nowadays, for example the Hitachi Desktar of my brother's computer started to show some reallocated sector in SMART and it was bought after my WD (though, it probably has more hours of use since that computer is never turned off except in power failure situations because of the lack of an UPS).
Post 11 Jan 2007, 22:07
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7721
Location: Kraków, Poland
Tomasz Grysztar
I've been using WD400JB drive for 3 years without a slightest problem. I guess you just have a really bad luck with them.

PS. However I agree that quality standard are dropping. And my good old 420 MB Seagate drive (the one on which the fasm was born) has been working for 11.5 years already without any problem, not a single bad sector has occured. Even though it was a few times dropped on the floor, and once I was walking over 10 km in snow with it in my hand, etc. Wink
Post 11 Jan 2007, 22:52
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Yes I have a 850MB very old Seagate and it still working great Very Happy Unfortunatelly that brand is hyper-ultra-very-very hard to get in Argentina nowadays.

And ladies and gentlemen, my first non forced BSOD:
Code:
kd> !analyze -v
*******************************************************************************
*                                                                             *
*                        Bugcheck Analysis                                    *
*                                                                             *
*******************************************************************************

DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (d1)
An attempt was made to access a pageable (or completely invalid) address at an
interrupt request level (IRQL) that is too high.  This is usually
caused by drivers using improper addresses.
If kernel debugger is available get stack backtrace.
Arguments:
Arg1: 00000004, memory referenced
Arg2: 00000002, IRQL
Arg3: 00000000, value 0 = read operation, 1 = write operation
Arg4: f71e104b, address which referenced memory

Debugging Details:
------------------

***** Kernel symbols are WRONG. Please fix symbols to do analysis.

***** Kernel symbols are WRONG. Please fix symbols to do analysis.

.
.
.

MODULE_NAME: nvata

FAULTING_MODULE: 80800000 nt

DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP:  444d72c9

READ_ADDRESS: unable to get nt!MmSpecialPoolStart
unable to get nt!MmSpecialPoolEnd
unable to get nt!MmPoolCodeStart
unable to get nt!MmPoolCodeEnd
 00000004 

CURRENT_IRQL:  2

FAULTING_IP: 
nvata+1304b
f71e104b 8a5b04          mov     bl,byte ptr [ebx+4]

CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT:  1

DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID:  WRONG_SYMBOLS

BUGCHECK_STR:  0xD1

LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER:  from f71e2192 to f71e104b

STACK_TEXT:  
WARNING: Stack unwind information not available. Following frames may be wrong.
80871dbc f71e2192 02d37468 00000000 86d370e8 nvata+0x1304b
80871ddc f71e251c 01d37468 00000001 00000001 nvata+0x14192
80871e2c 80869d5d 86d379bc 80871e20 00000000 nvata+0x1451c
80871e50 80869cd6 00000000 0000000e 00000000 nt!KiDispatchInterrupt+0x35d
00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 nt!KiDispatchInterrupt+0x2d6


STACK_COMMAND:  kb

FOLLOWUP_IP: 
nvata+1304b
f71e104b 8a5b04          mov     bl,byte ptr [ebx+4]

SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX:  0

FOLLOWUP_NAME:  MachineOwner

IMAGE_NAME:  nvata.sys

SYMBOL_NAME:  nvata+1304b

BUCKET_ID:  WRONG_SYMBOLS

Followup: MachineOwner
---------    


I leave the computer alone for an hour and when I back the "nice" blue screen was there Sad Since this is the first time and its related with nVidia SATA I think that the HD has something to do.

And the SMART status becoming worst and worst
Code:
01  Raw Read Error Rate                  51   200  200           0
03  Spin Up Time                         21   190  190        5491
04  Start/Stop Count                     0    100  100         577
05  Reallocated Sector Count             140  200  200           0
07  Seek Error Rate                      51   200  200           0
09  Power-On Time Count                  0    93   93         5338
0A  Spin Retry Count                     51   100  100           0
0B  Calibration Retry Count              51   100  100           0
0C  Power Cycle Count                    0    100  100         549
BE  <Especificado al vendedor>           45   51   34           49
C2  Temperature                          0    101  84           49
C4  Reallocation Event Count             0    200  200           0
C5  Current Pending Sector Count         0    200  199          10
C6  Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count  0    200  200          27
C7  Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate             0    200  200           0
C8  Write Error Rate                     51   198  198          82    


C8 has grown to from 44 to 82 today, C5 has decended to from 30 to 10 after the full media scan, C6 remains the same (when the troubles started, all this attributes was 0 for an year and the worst and current value 200).

[UPDATE] Second BSOD now, exactly same problem, "!analyze -v" provides the same info except for CUSTOMER_CRASH_COUNT which now is 2.[/UPDATE]
Post 11 Jan 2007, 23:14
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sylwek32



Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 339
sylwek32
I had 2 Western Digital Disk.. Some 20 GB and some 80GB..
The one had a headcrash after two weeks! The other hasn't
got power after 1 Month.

I wouldnt buy any Western Digital Disks any more.
But the Old 850MB of Western Digital were good...
Post 12 Jan 2007, 06:27
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
Tomasz Grysztar wrote:
However I agree that quality standard are dropping.

As is the price. It seems when they cost $1/meg they lasted longer. I've got several 20-40 gig drives that have been running for >6-8 years. Yet have blown two 80gig WD recently in the same boxes where the 20 & 40 gig drives reside.
Post 12 Jan 2007, 15:01
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
The only drives I've had really big problems with would be IBM - but keeping their "death star" series in mind, that hardly comes as a surprise.

The real trick to keeping drives healthy: mount a 80mm or 120mm intake fan in front of your drives. Reduces temperatures considerately, which keeps drives healthy. A lot of people have had problems with Maxtor drives, whereas I've never had a problem (and own probably 8 of them) - I guess this could be related to heat.

I've had a single WD disk die on me, but that's most likely also because of heat; really sucky computer casing, with idle CPU temperature at ~60, noticable increase of room temperature (box was located in a very very small room that used to be a toilet), etc. No problems after I got a bigger case with better airflow.

And recently I bought a 74GB SATA WD Raptor disk; too early to say anything about reliability, but it's basically SCSI in SATA clothings, so... Smile
Post 12 Jan 2007, 15:57
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
I have mounted a 80mm fan under the disk (the first disk hasn't got it but when it crashed the wheather isn't so hot anyway...), the temperature descends with it but as you see it doesn't prevent its inminent failure Sad

Something that worked really bad on both disks is the temperature sensor, the first disk reported sometimes temperatures even below than the room temperature and this one reports aproximatelly 10-12 degrees more than the real temperature (for that reason in my SMART history you can see that the BE attribute has exceeded).

About the Raptor, well, I think you will have no problems, is the Caviar series that is rotten. I think that the next time I'll spent my money in one of these expensive disk (if I can find where are selling them)

[UPDATE] 3rd BSOD, I switched the settings to "kernel memory dump" instead of minidump to get more info the next time. Now waiting for the 4th BSOD...[/UPDATE]
Post 12 Jan 2007, 17:02
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Very Happy
Code:
Test Option: QUICK TEST 
Model Number: WDC WD2000JS-00MHB0 
Unit Serial Number: WD-WCANKxxxxxxx 
Firmware Number: 02.01C03 
Capacity: 200.05 GB 
SMART Status: PASS 
Test Result: FAIL 
Test Error Code: 06-Quick Test on drive 1 did not complete! Status code = 07 (Failed read test element), 
Failure Checkpoint = 65 (Error Log Test) SMART self-test did not complete on drive 1! 
Test Time: 15:23:35, January 12, 2007 

Test Option: EXTENDED TEST 
Model Number: WDC WD2000JS-00MHB0 
Unit Serial Number: WD-WCANKxxxxxxx
Firmware Number: 02.01C03 
Capacity: 200.05 GB 
SMART Status: PASS 
Test Result: PASS 
Test Time: 16:29:47, January 12, 2007 


Test Option: QUICK TEST 
Model Number: WDC WD2000JS-00MHB0 
Unit Serial Number: WD-WCANKxxxxxxx
Firmware Number: 02.01C03 
Capacity: 200.05 GB 
SMART Status: PASS 
Test Result: PASS 
Test Time: 16:31:52, January 12, 2007     


Using the Windows version instead of the DOS version fixed the problem (though, the Windows version didn't offered to me to pass the extended test to fix the problem, I decided to do it for myself). This bad sector repair also reset the seek error rate worst value to 253 (which is better than the current value of 100, though, this values are the same that when I turned on the HD for the very first time).

Well, let's see what happens in the next weeks
Post 12 Jan 2007, 19:41
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
Be sure to get any critical data off the drive - most likely the drive has reallocated some sectors from it's scratch pool, if there's a physical problem with the drive, it might all come crashing down (literally).
Post 12 Jan 2007, 22:14
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Yes, I learned the lesson with the previous disk and I have some backups this time Very Happy

Actually the drive believes that the sectors can become good sectors later so it insist in leaving them as pending or even removing them from pending sectors instead of doing the relocations once for all. Now I ran for some hours SpinRite using the level 4 to see if I can estimulate the replacement but nothing yet. I will resume SpinRite tomorrow.

Regards

PS: Yes, I know that SpinRite is based on completely fake theories but it sometimes has saved some data from floppy disk where scandisk didn't and I think that for this purpose it will help some.
Post 13 Jan 2007, 02:24
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
Well, "can become good sectors" means remapping bad sectors to sectors from the scratch pool...

SpinRite: big fluffy words, and the usual BS from Gibson. I don't think I'd ever use it on a dying drive, since it stresses it even more, and could make it die even faster. At least I wouldn't use it before doing a image of the drive (ignoring bad sectors) - doing a linear copy of a drive is a lot less stressful than the massive head seeking SpinRite does.
Post 13 Jan 2007, 02:30
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
I didn't check how load intensive is level 2 but since this software doesn't allow you to specify which file must be recovered first you probably destroy a drive with defective heads before the data is saved (which actually isn't saved in a secure way because it stores the data back to the same defective disk... Laughing). But again, since I want to estimulate replacement and know how reliable the disk is I think that this stress is good, if my disk is now a piece of junk I want to know it as soon as possible.

After some not very skilled reverse engineering using IDApro and WinDBG (just to see the stack) I found the possible cause of the BSODs, the DPC routine is created by the IRP_MJ_PNP_POWER. The three BSODs was when I leave the computer alone so after 10 minutes the black screensaver gets executed and after 5 minutes more the monitor enters in power saving mode. This settings are the same since long time ago (few days after the installation of Windows which was more than one year ago). Since I haven't got any setting for set the HD into power saving mode after some idle time I have no idea of why these BSODs started at the same time the HD started to fail.

If I have time I'll continue with my investigations so stay tunned Razz

Cheers

PS: http://kernelmode.blogspot.com/ <- Nice info, though the "!drvobj " command didn't work for me.
Code:
kd> !drvobj NVATA
808818d0: Unable to get value of ObpTypeObjectType
Driver object (f71ce000) is for:
*************************************************************************
***                                                                   ***
***                                                                   ***
***    Your debugger is not using the correct symbols                 ***
***                                                                   ***
***    In order for this command to work properly, your symbol path   ***
***    must point to .pdb files that have full type information.      ***
***                                                                   ***
***    Certain .pdb files (such as the public OS symbols) do not      ***
***    contain the required information.  Contact the group that      ***
***    provided you with these symbols if you need this command to    ***
***    work.                                                          ***
***                                                                   ***
***    Type referenced: nt!_DRIVER_OBJECT                             ***
***                                                                   ***
*************************************************************************
Cannot read _DRIVER_OBJECT at f71ce000    


Probably because my dmp is a minidump instead of a kernel memory dump.

PS2: I haven't got any media capable to hold 200 GB so I can't dump all my HD before passing SpinRite so if I forgot to backup something then I will have no other choice than crying but being sure that the disk was a piece of junk Razz
Post 13 Jan 2007, 06:31
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Code:
01  Raw Read Error Rate                  51   200  200           0  OK
03  Spin Up Time                         21   205  190        4716  OK
04  Start/Stop Count                     0    100  100         585  OK
05  Reallocated Sector Count             140  200  200           0  OK
07  Seek Error Rate                      51   200  200           0  OK
09  Power-On Time Count                  0    93   93         5365  OK
0A  Spin Retry Count                     51   100  100           0  OK
0B  Calibration Retry Count              51   100  100           0  OK
0C  Power Cycle Count                    0    100  100         553  OK
BE  <Especificado al vendedor>           45   54   34           46  OK
C2  Temperature                          0    104  84           46  OK
C4  Reallocation Event Count             0    200  200           0  OK
C5  Current Pending Sector Count         0    200  199           0  OK
C6  Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count  0    200  200          27  OK
C7  Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate             0    200  200           0  OK
C8  Write Error Rate                     51   198  198          82  OK    


The drive finally decided to spare the life of all of the 27 bad sectors (I conclude to this because Reallocated Sector Count remains at 0 as usual).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Monitoring,_Analysis,_and_Reporting_Technology wrote:
197 C5 Current Pending Sector Count
*CRITICAL* Number of "unstable" sectors (waiting to be remapped). If the unstable sector is subsequently written or read successfully, this value is decreased and the sector is not remapped. Read errors on the sector will not remap the sector, it will only be remapped on a failed write attempt. This can be problematic to test because cached writes will not remap the sector, only direct I/O writes to the disk.


The counter reached 0 today while I was using Windows (and I didn't finish processing all the drive with SpinRite yet).

About the BSODs, I had no more of them even letting the computer idle many times to fire up the screensaver and the power saving mode of the monitor so if I'll continue with the reversing the minidump must be enough...
Post 13 Jan 2007, 22:28
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MCD



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 604
Location: Germany
MCD
I haven't used WD drives yet and I suretainly won't, cause I know of 1 guy personally who had a 40GB WD drive crashed after several months!

For my part, I will stay at Seagate/Samsung HDDs which are simply the best.
Both my 2GB and 40GB Seagate drive still works, and the 2GB is about 8 years old!
Post 14 Jan 2007, 03:27
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Filter



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 67
Filter
I used to work at a PC repair shop and they kept track of the hard drives that were bad. They had a huge number of Maxtor drives and very few if any Western Digital drives. The only Western Digital drives they had were the ones labeled SE, I assume for special edition or standard edition. They had fewer Western Digital drives than any other brand of drive.
Post 14 Jan 2007, 04:13
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
MCD wrote:
I haven't used WD drives yet and I suretainly won't, cause I know of 1 guy personally who had a 40GB WD drive crashed after several months!

For my part, I will stay at Seagate/Samsung HDDs which are simply the best.
Both my 2GB and 40GB Seagate drive still works, and the 2GB is about 8 years old!

That's silly - you really shouldn't use any drive if you went by stories like that Smile (single drive failures? Sheesh, you'll find that with any brand).

Filter is probably right that many Maxtors go bad - wouldn't surprise me, as those drives get pretty hot, and I bet a lot of people don't go through the trouble of keeping the drives cool with proper use of casefans.

Iirc the WD SEs are "special editions" with more cache - usually purchased by the people who put more stress on their drives than regular users.

_________________
Image - carpe noctem
Post 14 Jan 2007, 15:13
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
I do computer repairs for many people and WD is the one that most commonly ends up dead. But I think this is bad luck of sorts.

Frankly 90% of all computers I ever seen have WD drives in them. Some WD drives are perfectly silent some are very loud, some die immediately, some die after 6 months or something and some don't ever die (like we have a few computers around here with WD disks from aincient history and they're all alright).

Ironically, I happen to have a dead maxtor drive right on my table.

I've been told that Seagate's Barracuda series are the longest lasting drives. Never really gotten around to test it, but the disks DO come with a 5 year warranty around the local shops, so I'm thinking it's got to be worth it for them.

As far as keeping the drives cool, I'd agree with the others that drives do last longer if they're kept cool. Some disks are actually extra thin so that you can screw a set of disk cooling fans onto them (a kind of metal rack that comes with 2 fans in it and a pass-trough molex connector... http://www.akasa.com.tw/images/product_photos/system_coolers/water_mark_ak_hd_bl.jpg ). I've installed the disk cooling thingie in one computer and even tho it didn't look it, it actually keeps the disk cool to the touch. Using a pair of 80 mm or a 120 mm case fan in front of the disk bay (LC's 7004 II and 7004 B cases) kept the drive at about 35°C (room temp 26°C).
Post 18 Jan 2007, 02:28
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
Maxtor acquired Seagate, by the way... will be interesting to see what that does for reliability Smile. What drive brand you're being told ends up dead most often, by the way, will depend on what drive brand is the most popular in your region. I think standard IDE/SATA drives these days are mostly the same wrt. reliability - I'm stearing clear of IBM/hitachi for a while yet, though, because of the infamous desk/deathstar series.

There's been a few models (can't remember which, but it would be ironic if it was the Quantum Fireball Razz) that have had exploding chips, by the way.
Post 18 Jan 2007, 03:37
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sylwek32



Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 339
sylwek32
Post 18 Jan 2007, 13:03
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