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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
rugxulo wrote:
He is not dead. Many have seen him after the resurrection.


Do you realize youre a religious fanatic and delusional schizophrenic? As I've eluded to in the past, I deprogram religious fanatics and I feel sorry for you. I'm a recovered christian though I never really fell for it hard core like a lot of christians. I have known and deprogrammed a lot of fanatics like you. Most are really nice people, just mentally ill. You say the same things that all the kookoos say when being deprogrammed. The fact is Jesus is dead. You only think he is alive because you have been programmed to believe he is alive. Your people indoctrinated you with this lie and it's constantly reinforced in songs and sermons. Most often the fanatics say 'jesus is alive' and my most common question is 'ok...where?' To this they normally use the preconditioned package response of "in heaven at the right hand of the father" If he is in heaven then he is dead. Who goes to heaven? Dead people go to heaven. Either everyone in heaven is dead except for Jesus or Jesus is dead. Christian fanatics say Jesus is alive, if so then where? I think he would have been spotted by now, but alas, no one has seen him for over 2,000 years. If Jesus' spirit is alive in heaven, then everyone is alive including Gautama, Lao Tzu, Hitler and Ronald Regan. Either Jesus is dead or he is alive. If you say he is alive in heaven then everyone in heaven or hell is likewise alive.

I really feel sorry for you, I have witnessed these faith cults really screw people up. They destroy a persons ability to think rationally as you have demonstrated. They also destroys a persons ability to differentiate between fantasy and reality as you have also demonstrated. You have said some of the most ignorant statements such as you know next to nothing about Buddhism but you know enough to know its wrong. I'm really not surprised at this level of mental illness but I think Buddhism would be good for you to help undo some of the damage caused by your jesus cult. Though Zen is probably the furthest removed from the teachings of Gautama and Zen Buddhists are essentially nihilists, I think Zen would be good for you. Specifically look for Osho's book "Christianity-Poison, Zen-Cure for all Poison". Now that I think of it, I will try to find an electronic copy of this book and put it on my website for you.
Post 21 Jan 2007, 15:11
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
tantrikwizard wrote:
rugxulo wrote:
He is not dead. Many have seen him after the resurrection.


Do you realize youre a religious fanatic and delusional schizophrenic? As I've eluded to in the past, I deprogram religious fanatics and I feel sorry for you. I'm a recovered christian though I never really fell for it hard core like a lot of christians. I have known and deprogrammed a lot of fanatics like you. Most are really nice people, just mentally ill. You say the same things that all the kookoos say when being deprogrammed. The fact is Jesus is dead. You only think he is alive because you have been programmed to believe he is alive. Your people indoctrinated you with this lie and it's constantly reinforced in songs and sermons. Most often the fanatics say 'jesus is alive' and my most common question is 'ok...where?' To this they normally use the preconditioned package response of "in heaven at the right hand of the father" If he is in heaven then he is dead. Who goes to heaven? Dead people go to heaven. Either everyone in heaven is dead except for Jesus or Jesus is dead. Christian fanatics say Jesus is alive, if so then where? I think he would have been spotted by now, but alas, no one has seen him for over 2,000 years. If Jesus' spirit is alive in heaven, then everyone is alive including Gautama, Lao Tzu, Hitler and Ronald Regan. Either Jesus is dead or he is alive. If you say he is alive in heaven then everyone in heaven or hell is likewise alive.


Strange that you're a recovered Christian, and I am "born again" (after falling away from the faith for many years). Very odd indeed to my eyes. It is easy to become disillusioned with life and its many imperfections, but must you go around "deprogramming" people? Are you really that certain that you are correct? How is that any better than what you claim I'm doing? I'm not actively trying to convert anyone, just correcting a few errors and posting a few facts. Sorry if that insults your intelligence, but who knew words could be so powerful? I do not take this stuff lightly. Feel sorry for me if you must. At least that's better than hate.

Anyways, Jesus is not dead. The body was killed (crucified), and it remained without life for three days. Of course, the Spirit of God kept living on (since how do you kill the immortal? You can't!), and three days later came back into the body and transformed it into a living, breathing person again. That body was taken up into heaven ("Ascension"). The only other person who has a body in heaven (at the moment), AFAIK, is Jesus' mother Mary ("Assumption"), who never sinned ("Immaculate Conception"). And, yes, the soul does not "die" but lives on. However, it either permanently accepts or rejects God and goes where it wants either way. I know you don't care, but I'm just setting the record straight.

Jesus wrote:

"And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living." (Matthew 22)


You are allowed to change your mind. It happens. I did. Don't feel too bad. You are not alone. But, either way you are free. However, "many are the sorrows of the just man, but how much more the wicked". I'm not implying anybody is wicked, but certainly evil paths are bad and not to be followed. At the very least, you won't get what you want. "Some things look good to a man, but in the end they only result in death" (Proverbs). Since God exists and is the ultimate good, then not following Him would be bad. That's all I'm really trying to say.

P.S. Since someone mentioned Jedi stuff, I'll say this: SPOILERS! Emperor Palpatine was the one who lured away Anakin to the dark side with his lies of "there is no objective evil, only a perspective". He used Anakin's weakness (his fear of losing Amidala) as a method to corrupt him. However, even after becoming Darth Vader, there was still good in him (as Luke Skywalker sensed). Eventually, in order to save his son (Luke), he did come back to the side of good. And he died a happy man (and joined Obi Wan and others in "heaven" or whatever you wanna call it).
Post 21 Jan 2007, 19:04
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Bah, and just because there are a few other things I forgot to mention ...

tantrikwizard wrote:

Where do you people come up with this nonsense? Wait I know...the porno bible. The bible is no authority on anything. The only thing the bible proves is that bronze age men had fantastic imaginations and didn't know a thing about science, logic or common sense. The bible should be classified as hard core pornography. Full of incest, rape, bestiality, sodomy, etc.


The Bible is not pornography. It doesn't describe these things but explicitly forbids them (since some wayward nations were indeed full of such depravity: e.g., Sodom and Gomorrah). Other nations were quite imperfect too, but they turned away from sin after God's rebuke (see Jonah, the shortest book in the Bible).

Jonah wrote:

But God said to Jonah, "Have you reason to be angry over the plant?" "I have reason to be angry," Jonah answered, "angry enough to die." Then the LORD said, "You are concerned over the plant which cost you no labor and which you did not raise; it came up in one night and in one night it perished.
And should I not be concerned over Nineveh, the great city, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot distinguish their right hand from their left, not to mention the many cattle?"


footnotes/commentary wrote:

Jonah is selfish in bemoaning his personal loss of a shady gourd plant without any concern over the threat of loss of life to the Ninevites through the destruction of their city. If God in his kindness provided the plant for his prophet without the latter's effort or merit, how much more is he disposed to show love and mercy toward all men, Jew and Gentile, when they repent of their sins and implore his pardon! God's providence is also shown here to extend even to animals.


bogdanontanu wrote:

rugxulo wrote:

That leaves plenty of leeway in choices.


Yeah, like the choice in betwwen:
- catholic Christians God
- orthodox Christians God
- protestant Christians God
- jehova's Christians God
- adventists Christians God

As we can clearly see: plenty of "choices" of course...


You are free to create your own church, but don't say God made you do it! For the first ten centuries after Christ, there was only ONE church. It was only in the 16th century that the Protestant Reformation happened. Face it, if there are forces at work trying to actively destroy the Church, yes, weak humans will possibly give in to the temptation and go a little nuts. "The easiest way to get rid of temptation is to give in to it," (Oscar Wilde). I don't recommend that, though. Laughing Oh, and Mr. Wilde reportedly converted to Catholicism before he died.
Post 21 Jan 2007, 19:30
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

P.S. Since someone mentioned Jedi stuff, I'll say this: SPOILERS!


Spoilers????? You don't see the irony of that statement even after it is you who trashed this thread about Buddhism with your christian nonsense.


Quote:

Emperor Palpatine was the one who lured away Anakin to the dark side with his lies of "there is no objective evil, only a perspective". He used Anakin's weakness (his fear of losing Amidala) as a method to corrupt him. However, even after becoming Darth Vader, there was still good in him (as Luke Skywalker sensed). Eventually, in order to save his son (Luke), he did come back to the side of good. And he died a happy man (and joined Obi Wan and others in "heaven" or whatever you wanna call it).


Well I guess if we relate what has been happening here on earth over the last two thousand years, with war after war in the name of the christian god, which is even happening today as the christian militia (known to some as mercenary killers), the US military tries to plant christianity in the heart of the Arab Moslem world (Iraq), I guess it's very easy to see that christainity must be the dark side. So maybe like Darth Vader, you too may some day come back to the side of good .... but like tantrikwizard suggests, it won't happen until you seek medical help for your clinical depression you've been suffering all this time and refuse to deal with...... come back to the side of good rugxulo, I sense the good in you Smile
Post 21 Jan 2007, 20:39
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
rugxulo wrote:
Jesus' mother Mary ("Assumption"), who never sinned ("Immaculate Conception")...I know you don't care, but I'm just setting the record straight.

1. What I think, or what I may believe about the Intel architecture is really not very interesting, right, but, at least we can all agree that whatever my opinion is, it is, or OUGHT to be, based upon the Intel specification documents. Yes? Then, where are the specification documents for this notion that YOU are in possession of certain FACTS about the occupants of Heaven? Why, logically, should Jesus' MOTHER, but not his FATHER, have a body in Heaven (if we insist upon accepting the jewish vision of gods possessing anthropomorphic features), and how did you come to learn these facts? Isn't it simply the case, rugxulo, that you BELIEVE the Intel architecture to be superior to AMD but that you have NEVER actually read any of the bona fide original specification documents, and now, you are here on the FASM forum, telling the rest of us that we should go out and purchase only AMD, based upon some notion of yours, which is nothing more than simple prejudice. Admit the truth rugxulo, you don't really KNOW anything about Jesus' mother, or heaven or anything else, EXCEPT WHAT SOMEONE HAS ALREADY TOLD YOU TO BELIEVE. Now, I am not here to convince you that I know the truth, in fact, I don't know anything, that is the true meaning of the brilliant proverb by KongZi, which I shared with you yesterday....
2. Let us suppose, for sake of argument, that you are somehow "blessed" with greater skills than the rest of us, mere mortals, and that YOU really do KNOW whose corporal bodies are up there in heaven, why do you insist that sexual reproductive INSTINCTS are evil? Do you not comprehend that without sex, i.e. exchange of gametes to form a zygote, there would be no vertebrate life on earth? Why should this activity be regarded as "sinful"? Why should "immaculate" conception, (an oxymoron, since by definition there is no conception absent exchange of gametes, a very "maculate" process,) be considered healthy? What is healthy about abstinence of fundamental reproductive desires, WHICH EVERY SPECIES in the animal kingdom, and some in the plant kingdom possess--how else to explain the fluttering maple leaf seeds? Which is more reasonable, to assume that little 15 year old Mary was ravished by someone, maybe even her betrothed, but more likely a relative, or that she suddenly developed parthenogenetic competence? This folderol about Mary, and immaculate conception, as a rationale for her having a viable corpus in heaven, is utter RUBBISH, similar in magnitude of uneducated mythology as the nonsense spewed by the Mormons, who found gold tablets in North America....
3. I hope you are not using the Atari manual to comprehend SSE III instructions:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/06/amd_dual-core_sse3/
In other words, rugxulo, if you tell us, we ignorants here on the FASM forum, that the Bible is a rich source of jewish tradition, and mythology, and great poetry, then, yes, maybe we can learn something together. But if you believe the fairy tales embedded in those grusome stories of folklore of yesteryear, then, you are reading the wrong manual, my friend. Please do not confound TRUTH with belief. What Buddhists BELIEVE, versus REALITY, may or may not correspond. What ANYONE believes versus genuine facts, real data, and verifiable events, may or may not correspond. But, just because someone powerful ASSERTS the veracity of some event, or some feature, or some activity, (Bush and wmd in Iraq) this guarantee alone represents an inadequate, and insufficient basis for acknowledging TRUTHFULNESS. What we CAN say about the bible, with considerable certainty, is that it was wholly revised, and purged of all disharmonius and contradictory claims, by order of the Roman emperor Constantine, a pagan, who so little respected the nascent Christian tradition, that he assigned John the Baptist a loftier birthdate than Jesus (Summer solstice representing the most important holiday of the ancient world, winter solstice the SECOND most important day.) How can anyone, intelligent enough to use the internet, still be relying upon his TRS-80 manual to explain VESA?
Smile
Post 21 Jan 2007, 22:11
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
tom tobias wrote:
rugxulo wrote:
Jesus' mother Mary ("Assumption"), who never sinned ("Immaculate Conception")...I know you don't care, but I'm just setting the record straight.

1. What I think, or what I may believe about the Intel architecture is really not very interesting, right, but, at least we can all agree that whatever my opinion is, it is, or OUGHT to be, based upon the Intel specification documents. Yes? Then, where are the specification documents for this notion that YOU are in possession of certain FACTS about the occupants of Heaven?


"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven... the Son of Man." -- John 3:13

A select few christians attempt to get around this contradiction by saying Mary was a woman, but that doesn't explain the clear contradiction in II Kings:

"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." -- II Kings 2:11

Someone should have informed the mysterious author of John which was written around 300 C.E.
Post 22 Jan 2007, 00:52
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
MichaelH, I only mention "spoilers" so people won't get mad, and say I ruined the movie. This thread is not ruining anything (any more than any other information, whether you like it or not, actually ruins anything). In fact, this thread does have a warning ("possibly offencive, beware"). None of us apparently gave heed to that, though, because we're not afraid of a little discussion.

tom tobias wrote:
why do you insist that sexual reproductive INSTINCTS are evil?


No, they aren't, or God wouldn't create 'em. Mary herself had two parents (Joachim and Anne). What I'm saying is that, thanks to God's grace, her soul itself did not fall under the spell of original sin (caused by Adam and Eve's rebellion). Therefore, she was not inclined to sin like the rest of us. Truthfully, some of the apostles were there when both Jesus ascended and (later) when Mary was assumed into heaven.

"Heaven" here means "the third heaven" (or whatever) that is above the actual stratosphere (or whatever) of Earth. I don't know exactly what the deal with Elijah was, but it's definitely not the same as Mary. That quote probably means only Jesus/God can take people up to the true "heaven" and back (unlike Elijah). The most recent appearance of Elijah (that I know of) was his spiritual appearance talking to the pre-crucifixion Jesus (Transfiguration). The actual explanation might even be due to splitting hairs over the actual meaning of "heaven" in each book. It's true I haven't seen this personally, just passing along what I heard. (Haven't seen Vista yet either, but I know it exists).

Either you think my brain is malfunctioning or you have to consider that we are at different places spiritually. I don't claim to know much, but I am convinced of what I do know. If my brain is not broken, then maybe I've just heard/seen different things than you. You'll probably understand much more than me some day. Don't ask me why things are the way they are. I'm just passing along what I know/believe. (BTW, believing differently than someone else doesn't make you crazy, just different. Some people like Java (Privalov? Smile ), and I wouldn't call them crazy.)

EDIT: I've never heard that the U.S. "mercenaries" were trying to convert anyone. It's purely a military thing, not exactly supported by the Vatican, and I don't claim to understand it (but certainly I doubt it's for oil, that's for sure). Saddam was not very popular for many reasons around here (mainly due to the first Gulf War and his stubbornness regarding the U.N.). It was no secret for many years that the U.S. government disliked his administration.


Last edited by rugxulo on 21 Feb 2007, 22:04; edited 1 time in total
Post 22 Jan 2007, 23:22
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

Either you think my brain is malfunctioning or you have to consider that we are at different places spiritually.


Exactly and that's why it is wrong to insist people should be at the same place spiritually that you are. It's just not emotional good for people to be thrust to a different spiritual place when they are not ready, it's damaging to ones mind and usually ends up with individuals believing they need to do it to others as it was done to them. This is indeed the brain malfunction you are exhibiting and you need to stop it as it causes anger, resentment and ultimately war.

You can posts all the religious babel you want but in the end a healthy well balanced christian is a humble respectful person who never forces their belief on others (as the christian faith teaches believe it or not) but sadly too few self proclaim christians follow this teaching Sad

My apologies for the "Spoilers" mistake.

P.S When you are being helpful to people here at this forum teaching newbies etc, you are being a christian and spreading Gods word. Check the bible, there's story after story telling you this is how you should spread the christian belief .... so do it, follow what the bible teaches you!
Post 22 Jan 2007, 23:47
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
rugxulo wrote:

tom tobias wrote:
why do you insist that sexual reproductive INSTINCTS are evil?

What I'm saying is that, thanks to God's grace, her soul itself did not fall under the spell of original sin (caused by Adam and Eve's rebellion).

Care to back up this hypothesis with some evidence? This statement has zero historical basis nor does it have any biblical basis.
rugxulo wrote:
Therefore, she was not inclined to sin like the rest of us.

Again, back this nonsense up with some evidence beside your fantasy. This statement has zero historical basis and zero biblical basis.

rugxulo wrote:
Truthfully, some of the apostles were there when both Jesus ascended and (later) when Mary was assumed into heaven.

Yet again, please back this nonsense statement up with some evidence, zero historical evidence, zero biblical evidence. This is your particular fantasy and your fantasy doesn't mean its reality. Your fantasy about unicorns don't make unicorns real. You must back up your fantasy about unicorns before anyone will take you seriously.

rugxulo wrote:
"Heaven" here means "the third heaven" (or whatever) that is above the actual stratosphere (or whatever) of Earth.

More of your kookoo fantasy, back it up with some evidence already.

rugxulo wrote:
I don't know exactly what the deal with Elijah was, but it's definitely not the same as Mary.


So you partially admit you dont know, but partial admit you do, does this imply a spit (schizophrenia)? Your bible (authority) says one thing and yet you believe another. Yet you believe your bible which is in contradition with your belief. This is often defined as 'delusional schizophrenia'

rugxulo wrote:
That quote probably means only Jesus/God can take people up to the true "heaven" and back (unlike Elijah).

Split it, interpret it, convert it any way you want so as not to have to change your preconcieved ideas about the world. This is what most relgious fanatics do. It is what is known as 'denial' and transforms into 'delusional schizophrenia'

rugxulo wrote:
The most recent appearance of Elijah (that I know of) was his spiritual appearance talking to the pre-crucifixion Jesus (Transfiguration).


wake up you kookoo, it is not something you know, it is something you believe, its and a story you fell for. You don't know, you believe, there is a difference.

rugxulo wrote:
The actual explanation might even be due to splitting hairs over the actual meaning of "heaven" in each book.


Or it could be the splitting of hairs between the defition of ascended, or it could be the spilitting of hairs of the definition of 'any time', or it could be the splitting of hairs on the definition of the word 'Is' (to quote bill clinton) but when taken in context, the contradiction is quite clear, even when considering there is zero historical or biblical evidence for you nonsense claim that mary was ascended into heaven.

rugxulo wrote:
It's true I haven't seen this personally, just passing along what I heard.
So quit making claims of your knowledge, make claims of your beliefs. Beliefs are one thing, to say you definitively know about things which are impossible is what we call 'delusional schizophrenic'

rugxulo wrote:
(Haven't seen Vista yet either, but I know it exists).
Idiot child, there is a difference between what you can verify and what you cannot. You can verify vista, you cannot verify mary, god, jesus or elsewise faith based nonsense. Any matter of the slightest bit of research will verify vista, no manner of infinite amount of research will every verify your god, comparing the two is what a delusional schizophrenic might do.

rugxulo wrote:
Either you think my brain is malfunctioning or you have to consider that we are at different places spiritually.

The former is the most obvious conclusion. As I have pointed out, you are christian and therefore anti-spiritual. Being anti-spiritual, the logical conclusion is your brain is malfunctioning. As evidence of your responses youre clearly a delusional schizophrenic, thus a malfunctioning mind.

rugxulo wrote:
I don't claim to know much, but I am convinced of what I do know.


Nonsense, you do claim to know much more than the rest of us in addition to your conviction of what you believe. Yet again you confuse beliefs with knowing, this is also known as 'delusional schizophrenia'


rugxulo wrote:
If my brain is not broken, then maybe I've just heard/seen different things than you.


This is a logical consistency, but not a reality. The reality is your brain is broken and youre a delusional schizophrenic, you only believe you have heard/seen different things. Indeed your delusion may have conjured all sorts of imaginary things that many healthy minds dont create, but that doesnt make you mentally well. Infact it makes you mentally ill. Quickly seek a psychiatrist.

rugxulo wrote:
You'll probably understand much more than me some day.


You say 'probably' and 'some day' as if we do not already, this is a delusion of grandure. You dont even accept the possiblity that you maybe wrong. We call this 'delusional schizophrenia'

rugxulo wrote:
Don't ask me why things are the way they are.


Earlier you made claims that you didn't know for sure how things are. Now you're chaging your mind. This is just one example of an internal impass. A split. We call this 'delusional schizophrenia'

rugxulo wrote:
I'm just passing along what I know/believe.


You're getting closer, at least now youre including belief. But youre still making the mistake of comparing YOUR belief with knowing. This can be called 'delusional schizophrenia'

rugxulo wrote:
(BTW, believing differently than someone else doesn't make you crazy, just different. Some people like Java (Tomasz? Smile ), and I wouldn't call them crazy.)


Nonsense, if you BELIEVE in imaginary friends (as you do, e.g. jesus, god) then you are crazy and need medication. If you BELIEVE in vampires that suck your blood as you sleep then you are crazy and need heavy medication. Belief is not a problem so long as a person recognizes it as an unverifyable belief for which there is zero evidence. Yet you, like many religious fanatics and delusional schizophrenics, cannot differentiate between reality and fantasy. You fervently hold your fantasy as absolute truth without refute, this is also known as 'delusional schizophrenia'
Post 23 Jan 2007, 03:49
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
My atheist brothers, you're wasting so much of your valuable time in this single life writing these posts and you probably haven't realized it enough yet.

Free yourself!! Go back to your oscilloscope!! Very Happy
Post 23 Jan 2007, 07:15
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
Maverick wrote:
Free yourself!! Go back to your oscilloscope!! Very Happy


heheh, i do get a kick out of this sort of debate though. I think it's important, not only for rugxulo but also for all sorts of fanatical kookoos who may happen upon this thread.
Post 23 Jan 2007, 17:32
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
tantrikwizard wrote:
Maverick wrote:
Free yourself!! Go back to your oscilloscope!! Very Happy


heheh, i do get a kick out of this sort of debate though. I think it's important, not only for rugxulo but also for all sorts of fanatical kookoos who may happen upon this thread.


I admit, I don't know if any of you really believe in a god or not. But, why is it so important that you debunk me? You defend what you don't even believe (Buddhism), which again I say solves nothing: physically, mentally, or spiritually. "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" is considered wise in the Buddhist world even though it is a rhetorical question! If someone doesn't believe in God, then nothing matters: death, murder, sin, arguing? Nothing, it's all for nothing.

The Bible is a finite book. God is infinite. You can not comprehend the entire being of God from a book by yourself, even if it is written by Him. So, my other historical source is the Magisterium of the Church, which is descended from the line of the first pope, St. Peter, one of the Apostles. The Church is instituted by God for our benefit. Also, having the Holy Spirit as a guide helps greatly. (It would take forever to learn anything if we had to see it all first-hand. St. Thomas the Apostle somewhat held off believing until he saw Christ resurrected. Even with that testimony, you don't believe just because it could be a lie. This is why lying in general is bad. It makes people distrust everything, even the truth.)

I never said I knew so much more than everyone else, but I do know that Buddhism is broken and doesn't work, at least! That is one fact. The other fact is Christ is God. These two things I know. You can debate over "know" or "believe" all you want, but either way I am certain. I know you don't believe, and I accept that. I am just trying, based on my experiences, to NOT let others fall into the trap of Buddhism, as it solves nothing. Take it or leave it. I do not and cannot deny you your right to say whatever you want on this forum. Don't get too upset (if you can).

Before you start crying, "Unicorns! Leprechauns!" please be aware that there are many things that others have experienced that you have not. It is a huge planet with a long timeline so far, and it would be a bit short-sighted to pretend that certain species or people (or events) have not existed (or happened), especially when eyewitness testimony, among other things, says it did.

Even if you deny Christ (unintentionally), can you still deny the Commandments? They have been documented well before Christ came along. Do any of you enjoy the idea of blasphemy, sacrilege, murder, adultery, theft, anger, acedia, occultism, superstition, lust, envy, jealousy? I doubt it. Nothing good comes from those things. (MichaelH, please find the commandments I have broken in my conversations with you here. I am not forcing anyone, but I strongly suggest Christianity [truth] over Buddhism [error] any day. There is a time for speech, and a time for action. Sometimes, words must be used. Have my 500+ posts all been in vain? Were those not proof enough of my intentions? Am I really just trolling? I think not.)

If I notice a bug in your code, shall I stay silent and let it remain? Would it not be better if I corrected the mistake? Or do you like mysterious errors? Should I say "Use IE6 instead of IE7" even if it isn't a good idea? Should I stay silent when someone gives you wrong advice? "Better an open rebuke than a love that remains hidden" (Proverbs 27)

BTW, I could count on one hand the things I know about each one of you here in this thread. That's not much. Therefore, I don't pretend to diagnose anyone here with such and such disease. I also don't consider the 5-year-olds at the local church to be delusional schizophrenics either. Also, just because people a long time ago didn't have fancy computers and cell phones doesn't quite mean they were all crazy rubes who couldn't discern between fact and fiction. You want evidence? "Seek and you will find" (Luke 11). Is four gospels not enough? Are a few billion believers not enough? Are gabillion miracles (not counting those mentioned in the Bible, sorry if that testimony doesn't impress you) not enough? Once you've seen 'em, it'd be silly to deny.

Luke 1 wrote:
Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father,
and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." But Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?" And the angel said to her in reply, "The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God. And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren; for nothing will be impossible for God. (Luke 1)
Post 24 Jan 2007, 05:10
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
rugxulo wrote:

If someone doesn't believe in God, then nothing matters: death, murder, sin, arguing? Nothing, it's all for nothing.

Bullshit.

I matter, the ones I love matter, and our wellbeing matters. Claiming that ignorants don't care about anything is plain elitist ignorance - or perhaps just stupidity.

Even my "I'll do whatever I effing please" (which could be considered a form of Satanism) doesn't stop me from having a degree of respect for other people and their wellbeing. Of course my wellbeing is ultimately more important than anyone else's, but it'd have to come to extremes before that'd affect somebody else; basically, if it's my life or yours, it'll have to be mine.
Post 24 Jan 2007, 06:46
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
rugxulo wrote:
Have my 500+ posts all been in vain?
Let's find out:
rugxulo wrote:
Mary herself had two parents (Joachim and Anne). What I'm saying is that, thanks to God's grace, her soul itself did not fall under the spell of original sin (caused by Adam and Eve's rebellion).
Hmmm.... So, 1. we are all "sinners", because of a jewish myth explaining the creation of the world....2. Some, ?known? unknown?? authority (we have no reference, here to any literature!!) gave Mary, uniquely, dispensation for our human "sin", therefore, she did not commit any sin during her life, and therefore, if I have understood you correctly, her pregnancy could not have occured in the customary fashion, because the customary fashion, IS SINFUL. 3. I wonder which HUMAN declared that Mary was, by definition, free from this burden of being sinful, though still being not a god, but a person? Was it Jesus, himself? Oops, sorry, yeah, forgot, Jesus, himself, never wrote anything, did he? In fact, isn't it the case, that NONE of the dead sea scrolls mention ANYTHING at all about Jesus? Isn't that interesting??? People living roughly contemporarily with Jesus, who DID WRITE, about 50 years after his death, on documents available to us today, make ZERO reference to Jesus.
Maverick wrote:
My atheist brothers, you're wasting so much of your valuable time in this single life writing these posts and you probably haven't realized it enough yet.
Some of us, well, me in particular, probably require this output, to relieve some of the pressure, which has accumulated after many decades of bobbing and weaving in synchrony with the oscilloscope.
Shocked
tantrikwizard wrote:
if you BELIEVE in imaginary friends (as you do, e.g. jesus, god) then you are crazy and need medication.
What a delightful prospect, take a pill and get better!!! Ooops, there's a need for a reference!! Hint, you won't find it in DSM-IV.....
Any idea how many people are hospitalized, and given antipsychotic medication INCORRECTLY? (neither do I, but there are many, I personally have met several, one of whom, had nothing more wrong with him, than deafness, a simple sensory deficit, which none of the psychiatrists ever bothered to check....) It is ABSOLUTELY incorrect to offer any kind of diagnostic conclusion based upon some palabra from a public forum, for all we know, "rugxulo", is not even one person.... Rolling Eyes
rugxulo wrote:
I could count on one hand the things I know about each one of you here in this thread.
Was that one hand, clapping? Razz
rugxulo wrote:

I am not forcing anyone, but I strongly suggest Christianity [truth] over Buddhism [error] any day. There is a time for speech, and a time for action.
OOPS. I think this is a time for some serious DEBUGGING, and your ideas have some loose ends, for sure. The "action" you need to take is not more introspection, but rather locating some documents to explain WHO proclaimed the veracity of these several events you consider "real"?? I guess MOST of the "authority" behind your beliefs, including your repudiation of Buddhism, is derived, ultimately, from the Jewish nonsense about the superiority of their tribe, "the chosen ones", and their religion, which leads them, and their followers, including both Christians and Muslims, to revile the Buddhists, Hindus and other "pagans". Ultimately, this jewish hatred for anyone NOT jewish has led to the massacres known to us all.... "rugxulo", if you must accept part of the Jewish version of the creation of the world, in genesis, then you must accept all of it. You can't pick and choose selections of the Intel manual, can you??? Let's see, I guess I will disallow that section over there on XOR.... Twisted Evil
rugxulo wrote:
If I notice a bug in your code, shall I stay silent and let it remain?
Umm, I think you have some bugs in your philosophy....As tantrikwizard explained, above, you need REFERENCES, and haven't given us any. Sad


Last edited by tom tobias on 24 Jan 2007, 13:16; edited 1 time in total
Post 24 Jan 2007, 07:15
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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Maverick
rugxulo wrote:

If someone doesn't believe in God, then nothing matters: death, murder, sin, arguing? Nothing, it's all for nothing.

That's totally wrong. I don't believe in God, at all, I'm not happy about it but neither unhappy, because I see it as the simple truth, which has to be accepted.

However, even if I don't believe in the existance of ANYTHING paranormal (I am open to be proven wrong otherwise), thus I know very well that if I murder someone and the Police doesn't catch me, I won't go to hell and my karma will remain exactly the same as before, I'm not going to do it (unless to defend myself or for a cause good enough) because IT GOES AGAINST MY NATURE. Look, if I love someone, it's because IT IS IN MY NATURE, not because I read it in a book (Bible or what else) and I try to violent my otherwise different nature (it never works, look how many Christians do sin!). An Atheist can be and act more closely to Jesus than a fanatic, any fanatic, so-called Christian. This simply because he's just himself, and this may mean good things or bad things (although "good" and "bad" are concepts which are neither absolute nor objective, of course).

Why do you get astonished to see that a lot of benefactors of the human kind were atheists, and not religious sheeps? We are humans, the fact that there's no hell and no heaven doesn't change our very nature (in good and also in bad). And what an atheist does, is always more sincere than what a fanatic religious (be him/her Jew, Muslim, Christian or what else) does.

I have esteem for Jesus, but as a man, like he was. Just like I have esteem for Che Guevara, and other people who had the LUCK to have a good influence in history (how many even-better-than-those people have lived and are unknown to us?).

Fanatism brings ignorance and presumption, and the Chruch history is so sadly full of them that somebody should write the "black book of Christianity", much before than the one of Nazism, Communism or Capitalism, which were more limited in the damage they did, but probably (expecially Communism) more extended in the good they *intended* to do. The Church has always been a center of power, a more effective mean than a Police force to control the poor people. The message of Jesus was a very different thing than what gave the Church its reason to exist.

If the Pope directly represents Jesus, can you tell me why the hell he is full of gold and gems? What does it share with Jesus??? Is it necessary, when he has to write something on paper, that the pen must be of full, massive gold? Should I go on? I live in Italy and I know the Church very well. It makes me puke. Only that. I can only think of mafia to be worse (which, incidentally, is always strongly linked with the Church and our politicians).

What you have good in your life you owe it *expecially* to scientists, who are very often Atheists and who often seek the good for the human kind rather than personal profit, gold, gems or POWER. If it was for religious people, we would still be in the Middle Ages, in the best case.

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 24 Jan 2007, 11:01
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
100% agree with Maverick, well said

Quote:
What you have good in your life you owe it *expecially* to scientists, who are very often Atheists and who often seek the good for the human kind rather than personal profit, gold, gems or POWER. If it was for religious people, we would still be in the Middle Ages, in the best case.

And whose main motives is not to just listen/read/believe something and take it as fact/truth, but try to contradict or prove things before believing them.

People who just "belived" without proving/contradicting didn't do much for advancing of mankind.
Post 24 Jan 2007, 11:44
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
I think we should thank kohlrak for starting this thread - discussions/debates on these pages ENLIGHTEN us! Smile

YONG
Post 24 Jan 2007, 12:23
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
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tom tobias
YONG wrote:
discussions/debates on these pages ENLIGHTEN us!
KongZi wrote:
San ren xing,
Bi you wo shi

Smile
Post 24 Jan 2007, 13:11
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

MichaelH, please find the commandments I have broken in my conversations with you here.


Quote:

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.



So, you like disrespecting others, guess you won't mind if everyone here is disrespectful to you from now on then since you're a christian and follow the bible teachings, you must like people being disrespectful to you Wink


Quote:

But, why is it so important that you debunk me?


Because when one sees the devil .... one must rebuke him Smile
Post 24 Jan 2007, 13:53
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
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f0dder
Ask yourself, which is most sincere/true/whatever? Being kind and helpful to others because you feel like it, or because it's written in some stupid old book?

If I help an old lady, give a poor homeless guy some cash, or lock an unlocked bike... I don't do this because I think it'll get me a higher chance of going to heaven, since I don't belive in that crap. I gain absolutely nothing from it.
Post 24 Jan 2007, 16:49
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