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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
rugxulo wrote:
Quote:

by definition God does not have a body. Therefore, God's being disembodied and God's being omniscient are in conflict. Thus, if God is both omniscient and disembodied, God does not exist. Since God is both omniscient and disembodied He does not exist
Jesus is God, and Jesus has a body.


Poor ignorant child. That cult has really done some damage to you. I will briefly outline why the crackpot christ could not have been god using your pornography bible.
First, the definition of god according to you is that god is all powerful, yet jesus was not all powerful.
Quote:
And he could there do no mighty work...--mark 6:5
Second, your definition of god is that there is nothing greater than god. Yet jesus said god is greater than him
Quote:
...I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I --john 14:28
By definition nothing can be greater than god, yet jesus says there is something greater, therefore jesus was not god. Next, In addition to the failures of the crackpot christ to fulfill prophecy as I have already outlined, the messiah was supposed to be a descendent of David [Acts 2:30 & Romans 1:3] Yet, jesus was supposed to be a virgin birth, and not a descendent of David. Therefore jesus was not the messiah. Lastly, using your definition of god, god is morally perfect. Yet jesus says he is not even a good person.
Quote:
Luke 18:19, Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17
-- And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Here jesus not only says that he is not a good person, he also clearly says he is not god. Therefore jesus is not god. Sense jesus is not god, god cannot be omniscient. Get some education illiterate child.

Quote:
Quote:
The property of being all knowing also conflicts with certain moral attributes usually attributed to God. If God is omniscience, He has knowledge by acquaintance of all aspects of lust and envy. But one aspect of lust and envy is the feelings of lust and envy. However, part of the concept of God is that He is morally perfect and being morally perfect excludes these feelings. Consequently, there is a contradiction in the concept of God. God, because He is omniscient, must experience the feeling of lust and envy. But God, because He is morally perfect, is excluded from doing so. Consequently, God does not exist.


A rock doesn't have these "feelings" either, so therefore a rock does not exist. A cat has neither a soul or a conscience, and therefore cannot lust. (BTW, lust is not an accidental thing.) Therefore, a cat must not exist.


Again you do not have an elementary or primitive form of logic, logic is entire absent in this hysterical rambling. Get some education my illiterate friend.

Quote:
Part of the definition of God is <snip hysterical baseless indoctrination>... If He didn't understand it, how could He forgive it??
What makes you think he forgives it? Oh wait, I know, someone has programmed you and you fell for it Wink It is probably biblical based madness, but I can even refute the idea that god forgives sin using the porno bible. This is all bible based, and the bible is not a creditable source for the validity of the bible, it has zero moral or supernatural authority, it is just a book.

Quote:
This refutal is just plain useless arguing by people who have not been even slightly educated in Judeo-Christian theology. (No real "theologist" can deny God. How can you be an "expert" in something you don't acknowledge? If you've never "met" God, how can you define Him or even theoretically "what He'd be like if He did exist"?)

Poor idiot child, your inability to pay attention, I am sure, is a side effect of your lack of education and the psychological damage inflicted on you by your jesus cult. In no instance have I claimed to be an expert in anything, pay attention. I have said I am well learned and a shadetree philosopher, that in no way implies expertise. Next, philosophers are learned in all forms and schools of philosophy, it does not mean they subscribe to them you blabbering moron. Your nonsense argument is you must believe in theism to learn theism, this is like saying you must be a physicist to understand physics or your must be an auto-mechanic to change a tire. You do not even have primitive logic, logic is completely absent in your delusional spittle.

Quote:
I wonder what it is that such people think they gain by denying or redefining God.


Much is gained by denying the imaginary and bringing people to mental clarity. Cults like yours have been the major contributors to wars, genocide, bigotry, racism and discrimination throughout the ages. Nothing will be better for humanity than for all people to deny their cult followings and become human again. If all labels such as 'christian', 'jew', 'muslim', etc were removed and humans just started being humans again, we may find a moment of human development and global peace for a moment or two.
Post 10 Feb 2007, 16:04
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
God creates everything
and it is under God's mercy that we could feel the things/feeling God created.

eg. tomasz created fasm assembler, if tomasz doesn't share this assembler to public, none of us could use or feel this assembler and we wouldn't even know fasm means flat assembler.

and does anyone know more about fasm than tomasz himself?
God is omniscient because God creates everything and God is before everything.

would God needs to experience certain feeling/event before God knows how it feels? absolutely no, because God creates those feeling/event and under God's mercy that only we could feel the feeling.
Post 10 Feb 2007, 22:04
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
sleepsleep wrote:
God creates everything
and it is under God's mercy that we could feel the things/feeling God created.


Unfortunately there is zero creditable evidence for this. My billion dollar offering for a single shred of creditable evidence for the existence of any god stands. In fact, logically we can see how our senses/feelings are extremely limited in nature, only recognizing a very small portion of the stimuli that bombards our bodies & minds. If god were so loving and merceful he would have given us the abiliity to experience the full range of feelings to experience the full range of stumuli.
Post 10 Feb 2007, 22:30
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
sleepsleep wrote:
God creates everything
and it is under God's mercy that we could feel the things/feeling God created.

eg. tomasz created fasm assembler, if tomasz doesn't share this assembler to public, none of us could use or feel this assembler and we wouldn't even know fasm means flat assembler.

Thus Tomasz is God!! I've always affirmed that!! ;DDD

Finally the fact is now official!! Wink

tantrikwizard: where's my million? Wink

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 12 Feb 2007, 10:20
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:
First, the definition of god according to you is that god is all powerful, yet jesus was not all powerful.
Quote:
And he could there do no mighty work...--mark 6:5



God is all-powerful but does not always force His will upon us. (You didn't quote enough. Faith is often a prerequisite for God's action.)

Mark 6:5-7 wrote:

So he was not able to perform any mighty deed there, apart from curing a few sick people by laying his hands on them. He was amazed at their lack of faith. He went around to the villages in the vicinity teaching. He summoned the Twelve and began to send them out two by two and gave them authority over unclean spirits.


John 11:35 wrote:

And Jesus wept. So the Jews said, "See how he loved him." But some of them said, "Could not the one who opened the eyes of the blind man have done something so that this man would not have died?" So Jesus, perturbed again, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay across it. Jesus said, "Take away the stone." Martha, the dead man's sister, said to him, "Lord, by now there will be a stench; he has been dead for four days." Jesus said to her, "Did I not tell you that if you believe you will see the glory of God?" So they took away the stone. And Jesus raised his eyes and said, "Father, I thank you for hearing me. I know that you always hear me; but because of the crowd here I have said this, that they may believe that you sent me." And when he had said this, he cried out in a loud voice, "Lazarus, come out!" The dead man came out, tied hand and foot with burial bands, and his face was wrapped in a cloth. So Jesus said to them, "Untie him and let him go." Now many of the Jews who had come to Mary and seen what he had done began to believe in him.


Sounds pretty impressive to me! I don't see any other people doing such great deeds.

tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:

Second, your definition of god is that there is nothing greater than god. Yet jesus said god is greater than him
Quote:
...I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I --john 14:28
By definition nothing can be greater than god, yet jesus says there is something greater, therefore jesus was not god.


There are three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) but only one God.

Jesus (John 10) wrote:

This is why the Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down on my own. I have power to lay it down, and power to take it up again. This command I have received from my Father."
...
My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can take them out of the Father's hand. The Father and I are one."


tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:

Next, In addition to the failures of the crackpot christ to fulfill prophecy as I have already outlined, the messiah was supposed to be a descendent of David [Acts 2:30 & Romans 1:3] Yet, jesus was supposed to be a virgin birth, and not a descendent of David. Therefore jesus was not the messiah.


You don't even believe in the existence of the Messiah OR the Bible's prophecy, and yet you quote Scripture to deny Jesus as Him?

Isaiah 7:14 wrote:

Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.


Matthew 1 wrote:

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham became the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers.
...
Eliud the father of Eleazar. Eleazar became the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary. Of her was born Jesus who is called the Messiah.


tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:

Lastly, using your definition of god, god is morally perfect. Yet jesus says he is not even a good person.
Quote:
Luke 18:19, Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17
-- And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Here jesus not only says that he is not a good person, he also clearly says he is not god. Therefore jesus is not god. Sense jesus is not god, god cannot be omniscient. Get some education illiterate child.


Again, why are you quoting a book that you don't believe in? You don't personally care what it says because you have your own ideas. You're just using it to promote your own agenda (which is not the same as God's).

Jesus never said He was not a good person. If He says He is God's only Son, then surely He cannot be a bad person (and does not hide the fact). He is a stickler for the truth. This is the same "man" who said, "Let your 'yes' mean 'yes' and your 'no' mean 'no'". In other words, don't call things good or bad if they aren't so. Tell the truth. (Or do lies please you?!)

Quote:
liar wrote:
The property of being all knowing also conflicts with certain moral attributes usually attributed to God. If God is omniscience, He has knowledge by acquaintance of all aspects of lust and envy. But one aspect of lust and envy is the feelings of lust and envy. However, part of the concept of God is that He is morally perfect and being morally perfect excludes these feelings. Consequently, there is a contradiction in the concept of God. God, because He is omniscient, must experience the feeling of lust and envy. But God, because He is morally perfect, is excluded from doing so. Consequently, God does not exist.


A rock doesn't have these "feelings" either, so therefore a rock does not exist. A cat has neither a soul or a conscience, and therefore cannot lust. (BTW, lust is not an accidental thing.) Therefore, a cat must not exist.
tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:

Again you do not have an elementary or primitive form of logic, logic is entire absent in this hysterical rambling. Get some education my illiterate friend.



What good is an education if it denies God? What "education" compels you to deny thousands of saints' witness to Jesus? Not wise. Sad

tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:

Quote:
Part of the definition of God is <snip hysterical baseless indoctrination>... If He didn't understand it, how could He forgive it??
What makes you think he forgives it? Oh wait, I know, someone has programmed you and you fell for it Wink It is probably biblical based madness, but I can even refute the idea that god forgives sin using the porno bible.


God forgives those who truly repent (admit their guilt, be sorry, recognize the bad in sin, recognize God's love, sincerely promise to try to never do it again, perform good deeds as penance, perform good in lieu of bad).

Matthew 9:2 wrote:

And there people brought to him a paralytic lying on a stretcher. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Courage, child, your sins are forgiven." At that, some of the scribes 2 said to themselves, "This man is blaspheming." Jesus knew what they were thinking, and said, "Why do you harbor evil thoughts? Which is easier, to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Rise and walk'? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" --he then said to the paralytic, "Rise, pick up your stretcher, and go home." He rose and went home.


tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:

This is all bible based, and the bible is not a creditable source for the validity of the bible, it has zero moral or supernatural authority, it is just a book.


No, it is a huge collection of books, approximately 1400 pages (at least, New American Bible, my copy). Can you honestly deny every single book in it (73, at quick count)? Every single chapter?!

tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:

Quote:
This refutal is just plain useless arguing by people who have not been even slightly educated in Judeo-Christian theology. (No real "theologist" can deny God. How can you be an "expert" in something you don't acknowledge? If you've never "met" God, how can you define Him or even theoretically "what He'd be like if He did exist"?)

Poor idiot child, your inability to pay attention, I am sure, is a side effect of your lack of education and the psychological damage inflicted on you by your jesus cult. In no instance have I claimed to be an expert in anything, pay attention. I have said I am well learned and a shadetree philosopher, that in no way implies expertise. Next, philosophers are learned in all forms and schools of philosophy, it does not mean they subscribe to them you blabbering moron. Your nonsense argument is you must believe in theism to learn theism, this is like saying you must be a physicist to understand physics or your must be an auto-mechanic to change a tire. You do not even have primitive logic, logic is completely absent in your delusional spittle.


If you do not know God, then you don't know anything. "The beginning of knowledge is fear of the Lord." This is not an insult. God is the beginning of all life, and man's intended ultimate end. Our entire life is meant to "know, love, and serve the Lord", not chase after empty logic.

Quote:
I wonder what it is that such people think they gain by denying or redefining God.
tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:

Much is gained by denying the imaginary and bringing people to mental clarity. Cults like yours have been the major contributors to wars, genocide, bigotry, racism and discrimination throughout the ages. Nothing will be better for humanity than for all people to deny their cult followings and become human again. If all labels such as 'christian', 'jew', 'muslim', etc were removed and humans just started being humans again, we may find a moment of human development and global peace for a moment or two.



The entire goal of Christianity is to "imitate Christ, seek the good, and love the world more than ever" (to exactly quote an Easter homily/sermon I heard a few years ago). Obey the 10 commandments, that's it, that's all we have to do: love God (1-3) and love neighbor (4-10). Can anybody reasonably condemn that?! Do you really expect to convince anyone that the world would be a better place if we all lied, stole, committed adultery, murdered, scorned our parents, harbored intense anger, lusted after everyone else's wives and husbands, destroyed other people's property, insulted each other, ad infinitum? Can anyone claim perfection in their life regarding that? (Why pretend? Forgiveness is easily accessible.)

We Christians may not be perfect (uh, duh), but at least under Christianity we try (with grace). Trying is better than not trying.

God will not judge harshly someone who is uninformed of the truth. Doing your best is definitely not enough, but doing your best (even if being FAR from perfect) with God's help and guidance is what God wants. God is VERY willing to forgive and help everyone to come to the truth.

If you pray to Jesus, with sincerity in your heart, and ask for help in finding the truth, what harm could there be in that? If there is no God, nothing bad happens. If there is, rejoice! God hears ALL prayers. (Psalm 51)

P.S. Billy Graham suggests that newcomers to the faith read The Gospel of John in its entirety first. Surely a sincere person would not misunderstand as much if they did. (21 chapters ain't very long, anyways.)


Last edited by rugxulo on 14 Feb 2007, 16:20; edited 1 time in total
Post 14 Feb 2007, 15:58
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
rugxulo wrote:
The entire goal of Christianity is to "imitate Christ, seek the good, and love the world more than ever" (to exactly quote an Easter homily/sermon I heard a few years ago).

Wow.. looks like history of the Church in the last 2000 years.. not! Very Happy

Quote:
God will not judge harshly someone who is uninformed of the truth.

He won't? As far as I know, if you don't get that special water on your head you'll never reach eden. Me and my wife decided that our daughtar and son didn't need any baptism (if then when they'll be able to take decisions they'll want that little piss on their heads, I'll give them my bless anyway).
What do I deserve for not giving my ultrabeloved daughtar and son that useless* thing called baptism? The worst place of hell?

*objectively useless, but useful to the Church to impose its mafia on the otherwise much more free people..

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 14 Feb 2007, 16:15
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Maverick wrote:

Quote:
God will not judge harshly someone who is uninformed of the truth.

He won't? As far as I know, if you don't get that special water on your head you'll never reach eden. Me and my wife decided that our daughtar and son didn't need any baptism (if then when they'll be able to take decisions they'll want that little piss on their heads, I'll give them my bless anyway).
What do I deserve for not giving my ultrabeloved daughtar and son that useless* thing called baptism? The worst place of hell?

*objectively useless, but useful to the Church to impose its mafia on the otherwise much more free people..


It is not the water that does anything. But, the water is an external symbol (sacrament) of what is going on spiritually, a spiritual cleansing of the soul by God. The Holy Spirit comes and remains with that person so that they can have God's help in their life. You cannot have any faith in God or do any good deeds (or even live) without some help from God Himself. He must start you off, at least.

EDIT:
Maverick wrote:

Then when was the exact date of birth of God (meant as Jesus)? It's not a silly question, if it seems to you. Answer please. The exact date of birth of Jesus, the one you really believe in (he was such an important person that it must be known, not?! we ain't talking about my granny, but about THE SON OF GOD!!).
Give the date of birth, please.


commentary on Luke 1:5 wrote:

"In the days of Herod, King of Judea": Luke relates the story of salvation history to events in contemporary world history. Here and in Luke 3:1-2 he connects his narrative with events in Palestinian history; in Luke 2:1-2 and Luke 3:1 he casts the Jesus story in the light of events of Roman history. Herod the Great, the son of the Idumean Antipater, was declared "King of Judea" by the Roman Senate in 40 B.C., but became the undisputed ruler of Palestine only in 37 B.C. He continued as king until his death in 4 B.C.


Luke 2:1-7 plus commentary wrote:

"In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that the whole world should be enrolled. This was the first enrollment, when Quirinius was governor of Syria. So all went to be enrolled, each to his own town. And Joseph too went up from Galilee from the town of Nazareth to Judea, to the city of David that is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David, to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. While they were there, the time came for her to have her child, and she gave birth to her firstborn son."

Caesar Augustus: the reign of the Roman emperor Caesar Augustus is usually dated from 27 B.C. to his death in A.D. 14.


Is this not a good enough answer? What are you really not understanding?
Post 14 Feb 2007, 16:24
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
rugxulo
[quote="commentary on Luke 1:5 wrote:


Luke 2:1-7 plus commentary wrote:


Is this not a good enough answer? What are you really not understanding?[/quote]

Idiot child, you probably don’t even realize that you yourself have no understanding on these matters. You’ve been indoctrinated and programmed to fall for someone else’s belief system. This is why you must quote others. You quote others because you have no authority or realization of your own. Quoting other people does not make what you say right; it only means you’re able to quote others that share your delusional world view. Try using some logic and common sense to explain your madness or else no one is going to take you very seriously. I rarely quote others because I know of my own authority and can logically explain my belief or lack thereof without 3rd party sources. rugxulo, get some education my illiterate friend. Your delusional world view is based on what others say. There is no substantial evidence to back it up except for hear-say, the testimony of others. You cannot even logically justify your epistemology without using the bible as your ultimate source of information. It does absolutely no good blabbering the bible to a bunch of free-thinkers. We do not fall for the bible and every time you use it as your source, it only further validate that you’re a kookoo with no common sense. You may as well quote Harry potter or mother goose. Your belief is based on the bible, and you use the bible as evidence of your belief. Do you not see the circular stupidity of this delusion? You may as well say you believe in Harry potter, and you use Harry potter as evidence for Harry potter. This is the lack of logic that Bronze Age tribesmen used. The jesus cults have been plagued by stupidity from the beginning. Irenaeus compiled the 4 gospels out of the many floating around during the time. He settled on 4, using the brilliant logic of 'there are 4 corners of the earth, so should be 4 gospels.' He threw out all the other gospels on the basis that we have north, south, east and west. What an idiot! Have you ever studied any of the other gospels that this moron threw away? Why do you let this caveman mentality dictate your world view?

My billion dollar reward stands idiot child. Present some creditable evidence for your imaginary god and collect 1 billion dollars Wink Sadly, I've presented my billion dollar reward to hundreds, if not thousands of people, and no one has ever presented me with a single shred of creditable evidence for any god. I do not ask for proof, forget about proof, just one shred of creditable evidence will do.
Post 14 Feb 2007, 20:29
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
rugxulo wrote:
tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:
First, the definition of god according to you is that god is all powerful, yet jesus was not all powerful.
Quote:
And he could there do no mighty work...--mark 6:5
God is all-powerful but does not always force His will upon us. (You didn't quote enough. Faith is often a prerequisite for God's action.)
Pay attention you idiot, he was not able to. His inability to do something is evidence that he is not all powerful. You've got the IQ of toe jam. If Jesus is god, then there is nothing greater than god, who the hell is he going to have faith in?
Mark 6:5-7 wrote:
he was not able to perform any mighty deed there,
Because of his inability he has limited power. Sense he has limited power he cannot be all power. Sense he is not all powerful he cannot be god.
rugxulo wrote:
Sounds pretty impressive to me! I don't see any other people doing such great deeds.
This is what makes you and your kind the biggest hypocrits on the planet. Later in your post you say you want to immulate him, yet don't follow his example.
the crackpot christ wrote:
He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also--john 14:12
So either jesus was lying, or you do not really believe in him. He says that if you believe in him you can heal the sick, feed the hungry, raise the "dead, etc, etc, but you "dont see any other people doing such great deeds" do you? You must choose either A) jesus was a liar or B) you do not believe in him. Additionally,
the crackpot christ wrote:
If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.--mathew 17:20
But clearly it is impressive to you and you do not see anyone else doing it because either A) jesus was a lair or B) you do not have the faith of a mustard seed.
retard rugxulo wrote:
You don't even believe in the existence of the Messiah OR the Bible's prophecy, and yet you quote Scripture to deny Jesus as Him?
Thats right, it really takes no intellegence to prove your stupidity and illiterate madness using your own source of authority. I dont need to use anything other than your porno bible to pove the self-contradiction and lack of logic or common sense in jesus cults.
retard rugxulo wrote:
Isaiah 7:14 wrote:
Therefore the Lord himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.
Pay attention to the name you moron, jesus didnt even get the name right, his name was Jesus not Immanuel, evidence that either A) jesus was not the messiah or B) the prophecy was wrong.
retard rugxulo wrote:
Matthew 1 wrote:
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham became the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers.
...
Eliud the father of Eleazar. Eleazar became the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary. Of her was born Jesus who is called the Messiah.
So, was jesus born of a virgin or born of Joseph? You must make a choice. Either jesus was the bastard son born of a virgin and therefore not a descendent of david or jesus was josephs son on not an immaculate birth, take your pick. Picking one or the other is going to fuq up your self-contradictory belief system either way. FYI you illiterate moron, the gospels do not agree on the lineage of Joseph.
retard rugxulo wrote:

tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:
Lastly, using your definition of god, god is morally perfect. Yet jesus says he is not even a good person.
Quote:
Luke 18:19, Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17
-- And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Here jesus not only says that he is not a good person, he also clearly says he is not god. Therefore jesus is not god. Sense jesus is not god, god cannot be omniscient. Get some education illiterate child.
Again, why are you quoting a book that you don't believe in?
Because it takes no intellegence to disprove your belief system, I can do it with your own book. The porno bible is your source of authority and I can use your source of authority to disprove your nonsense belief system.
retard rugxulo wrote:
You don't personally care what it says because you have your own ideas.
Right, I really dont care about what it says, rather, I care what youre saying. Youre using the bible as evidence for your beliefs and I'm using the bible to disprove your beliefs.
retard rugxulo wrote:
You're just using it to promote your own agenda (which is not the same as God's).
I'm using it just as you are. You use the bible as your only source of authority and I use it to disprove you, it's that simple. You have your agenda with the bible, I have mine.
retard rugxulo wrote:
Jesus never said He was not a good person.
Yes he did you idiot, try to pay attention:
the crackpot christ wrote:
"Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God." -- Luke 18:19, Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17
It is recorded in at least 3 cases where jesus said he is not good. Not good means bad. The antonym (opposite) of 'good' is 'bad', therefore to not be good (the negation of good) is to be bad. Jesus addmitted he was a bad person. Deal with it.
retard rugxulo wrote:
If He says He is God's only Son, then surely He cannot be a bad person (and does not hide the fact).
Too bad illiterate child, jesus destroyed this nonsense idea with the above quote. Youre going to have to deal with it.
retard rugxulo wrote:
What good is an education if it denies God?
Try to pay attention illiterate child, there is much gained by denying zeus, ra, the pharos, witch doctors, the boogie man, lepricans and pixies. They contribute nothing but mental illness and bigotry to society.
retard rugxulo wrote:
What "education" compels you to deny thousands of saints' witness to Jesus?
Any proper education my illiterate friend. This is what makes kookoos like you uncreditable, you substitute knowledge and education with fantasy and fairytale. First get a proper education so you can properly debate these subjects. While youre getting a mild education you will probably snap out of some psychological damage that has been inflicted on you.
retard rugxulo wrote:
tantrikwizard erroneously wrote:

This is all bible based, and the bible is not a creditable source for the validity of the bible, it has zero moral or supernatural authority, it is just a book.
No, it is a huge collection of books, approximately 1400 pages
Thats what I said you idiot, pay attention, it is bible based, This collection of books is called the bible, that is why it is bible based. But let us be clear that it is not entirely bible based, it is selective choosing of certain portions of the bible that your particular cult subscribes to. There are many other 'bible based' belief systems with vastly different rituals and beliefs than your particular sect.
retard rugxulo wrote:
Can you honestly deny every single book in it (73, at quick count)? Every single chapter?!
Ah, so you fall for the latin bible, or more correctly 'the catholic church authorized bible' Yes idiot child, i deny every single book because they're all based on fantasy and their only proof is themself. Do you fall for harry potter because harry potter says its a true story? Get some education idiot child. Not only do I deny all of those books, there are many apocryphal works which I deny. But considering your illiterate status, you probably have never read them either.
retard rugxulo wrote:
If you do not know God, then you don't know anything. "The beginning of knowledge is fear of the Lord." This is not an insult. God is the beginning of all life, and man's intended ultimate end. Our entire life is meant to "know, love, and serve the Lord", not chase after empty logic.
Nonsense you idiot, care to back this up with some evidence? You do not know god, you know your idea of what god might be.
retard rugxulo wrote:
The entire goal of Christianity is to "imitate Christ, seek the good, and love the world more than ever" (to exactly quote an Easter homily/sermon I heard a few years ago). Obey the 10 commandments, that's it, that's all we have to do: love God (1-3) and love neighbor (4-10). Can anybody reasonably condemn that?!
Poor idiot child. You do not follow jesus.
the crackpot christ wrote:
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters"--luke 14:26
Here jesus clearly says you must break moses's commandments to be his follower. Also, I do not believe it is possible for christians to follow the commandments. One of the commandments is 'remember the sabbath and keep it holy' Yet the traditional sabbath is on friday, christians forgot that part thus have broken the commandment. Friday is the most sinful day of the week, it's when christians go out and get drunk and screw hookers, so christians have fogotten the sabbath and made it the most unholy day of the week. Jesus also commands his followers to hate their parents which breaks moses' law of 'honor thy parents' Also, jesus commands his followers to kill anyone who doesn't accept him:
the crackpot christ wrote:
"those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me" -- luke 19:27
So you cannot be both a true christian and follow the laws of moses.
retard rugxulo wrote:
P.S. Billy Graham suggests that newcomers to the faith read The Gospel of John [b]in its entirety first. Surely a sincere person would not misunderstand as much if they did. (21 chapters ain't very long, anyways.)
This is what makes you and billy graham both idiots of untold magnitude. The gospel according to john was fabricated by the catholic church and most historians and scholars dont pay much attention to it. There are many reasons why the book of john is the most uncreditable book of the bible so its no suprise that kookoos like you and billy graham suggest it first. no wonder you idiots dislike education. Educated people make swiss cheese of your schizophrenic belief system.
Post 14 Feb 2007, 22:55
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:
God is all-powerful but does not always force His will upon us.

Since God already knows everything... it means everything, event, destination already got decided before they were executed.

Quote:
If Jesus is god, then there is nothing greater than god, who the hell is he going to have faith in?

obviously, Jesus is not God. he is just a messenger, like those previous messengers sent by God to guide human into Monotheism.

Quote:
Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! (Quran 5:75).


Quote:
"Relate in the Book the story of Mary, when she withdrew from her family, to a place in the East. She screened herself from them; then We sent to her Our spirit (angel Gabriel) and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said: I seek refuge from you in God Most Gracious (come not near) if you do fear God. He said: Nay, I am only a Messenger from your Lord, to announce to you the gift of a pure son. She said: How shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me, and I am not unchaste? He said: So it will be, your Lord says: ‘That is easy for Me; and We wish to appoint him as a sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It was a matter so decreed" (Quran 19:16-21).

if we believe God is all powerful, this is just an easy task.

Quote:
She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is! (3:47).


Quote:
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (Quran 4:171).


Quote:
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- (Quran 4:157).
Post 15 Feb 2007, 00:25
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
sleepsleep wrote:
Since God already knows everything... it means everything, event, destination already got decided before they were executed....
Now, this looks very promising. Do I detect a transition, here, retracing its way back to "offencive" Buddhism? Predestination. Gosh, that's exciting. Think of the recursive possibilities!!
sleepsleep wrote:
....to guide human into Monotheism.
Well, then, we must of course consider multiple gods--where is the evidence that monotheism provides humans with a superior life, at least during that brief time they live on planet Earth? I am unconvinced by Quran anything, or Bible anything, or Torah anything....
I am skeptical of Gautama.
I am doubtful of KongZi, since his analects were authored by his Grandson, not by him.
Who is left?
Lao Zi!
Here is a small passage from Dao de Jing --the path, or the way....
It is about 80 chapters in length, where each chapter is roughly comparable to a paragraph.
This was written just about the same time as Siddhartha's musings, i.e. about half a millenium before J.C. and about one millenium before Quran:
LaoZi wrote:
Chapter Three:
Do not exalt talents
So that the people will not contend;
Do not treasure goods hard to come by
So that the people will not steal;
Do not parade enviable things
so that the people will not rebel....

that's about half of this chapter.....
Post 15 Feb 2007, 02:01
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
sleepsleep wrote:
Quote:
God is all-powerful but does not always force His will upon us.

Since God already knows everything... it means everything, event, destination already got decided before they were executed.

What is the SENSE of a being that is all perfect and all powerful, yet creates us imperfect and lets us make mistakes (also horrible ones, should I make examples? And I don't only talk about war, but please tell me the sense of a 2years old child with terminal cancer).
Are we TOYS in the hands of this f*cking God? Strike me with a lighting if you exist, you LAMER!
Now, THIS has a sense! Smile

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 15 Feb 2007, 07:39
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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Maverick
LaoZi wrote:
Chapter Three:
Do not exalt talents
So that the people will not contend;
Do not treasure goods hard to come by
So that the people will not steal;
Do not parade enviable things
so that the people will not rebel....
suicide immediately
so nobody will be able to kill you;


sorry, I couldn't refrain myself Wink

Post 15 Feb 2007, 07:41
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
The title of the book (that tom mentioned above) should be "Dao De Jing" (all begin with capital letter). The phrase "daode" means "morality" and the word "jing" means "a book".

YONG
Post 15 Feb 2007, 13:04
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tom tobias



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tom tobias
My most humble apologies sir, you are absolutely correct, as usual, and I am wrong, as usual!
DaoDeJing
Now, ignorant as I am, I would have thought that the "De" represented from or toward, and the "Dao" would indicate way, or manner, or method, or somesort of slightly ambiguous term, with a broad meaning or range of meanings. So, I would have thought that Dao De Jing meant, a study of the various ways to achieve an ultimate goal.....i.e. Toward a Path of Righteousness, or, Forward to Victory, or Getting organized, or The truth eventually triumphs, or something of that sort..... I like your translation, YONG, better than mine!!
Smile
Post 15 Feb 2007, 21:23
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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rugxulo
Maverick wrote:
What is the SENSE of a being that is all perfect and all powerful, yet creates us imperfect and lets us make mistakes (also horrible ones, should I make examples? And I don't only talk about war, but please tell me the sense of a 2years old child with terminal cancer).


Did God create suffering? No, it is the result of original sin. Read Job if you want to see that the Devil is the one who hurts us. God only wants what's best. The Devil just wants us to die like him, to lie, to suffer, to be deceived, so that we cannot accept God (as we are supposed to). The Devil will say or do anything to pretend, but truth cannot be hidden. Do not fall for his lies. He is BAD, fully wrong, and fully useless. (Sorry if that is too shocking for you, but it cannot be sugar-coated.)

Maverick wrote:
Are we TOYS in the hands of this f*cking God?


Can you explain the idea that God would willingly let Himself be crucified? Why wouldn't He just snap His fingers? Because God has His own way of doing things. Why get angry at what you don't understand?

Isaiah 55:8 wrote:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the LORD.


Maverick wrote:

Strike me with a lighting if you exist, you LAMER! Now, THIS has a sense! Smile


Wikipedia wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Caviezel

Caviezel was struck by lightning while filming The Passion of the Christ. He also was accidentally whipped and bruised his eye while filming the same movie.


Slightly coincidental, no? But of course you can deny that too (or anything, if you really wanted). Don't ask me why it happened because I don't know. But surely, lightning is well beyond human ability to control, no?

tantrikwizard, if you personally don't believe in following Moses, how can you decry Jesus as not obeying it either? The "sabbath" is Saturday, and Christians, after Jesus rose from the dead on Easter Sunday, were expected to rest on that day, "the eighth day, the Lord's day", instead.

tantrikwizard wrote:

Friday is the most sinful day of the week, it's when christians go out and get drunk and screw hookers, so christians have fogotten the sabbath and made it the most unholy day of the week.


No, surely not, how can you accuse so many?? Nobody is perfect, but surely God DOES give the grace to not do such intentional, preventable, useless things as that. No Christian I know does any of those things (as we are well informed to avoid such circumstances). If someone does such things, they must be either completely uninformed or self-hating and self-destructive. Nothing good comes from those things. (Read the Bible, it actually consistently says DON'T do those things. Duh.) God is real, real, real, and loves the world more than anyone: no amount of deception and misquotes will ever change that.

Also, you have flatly twisted the obvious answers I have replied to some of your responses (Jesus being a good person, telling us to love and not hate or resort to violence). Anybody who has even slightly read the Bible would know how incredibly, undeniably, obviously it is. Only the people who are completely uninformed can fall for such lies. All it takes is a drop (even the smallest amount) of effort to see that Jesus is NOT a bad person. The truth is not always pleasant, but can you deny it forever? (Technically yes, but I assume most people don't want to.)

(However, you can still freely lie or deny all you want ... it isn't the first time nor the last that Scripture is/will be misquoted for the wrong reasons ... oh, and Luke 3 also tells how Jesus is the son of David, as He would be since Joseph was His legal guardian who "went up to Bethlehem" to register for the census).

There is a 100% chance that God exists, and it is BEYOND reasonable doubt, okay? I don't know what proof or evidence will convince you. But, if you don't want to believe, who can force you? Nobody, you can live in error forever if that's your wish. (But why would anyone??) It is definitely not impossible to deny faith and throw it away. And you can always find others who disagree too, but they are all flatly wrong. Do not deny God just because you haven't "seen" Him yet. He is there and waiting. He is only wanting what is best for us all, so don't worry.
Post 16 Feb 2007, 04:26
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MCD



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MCD
if you continue writing so much here, this thread will need a server for itself alone Wink
Post 16 Feb 2007, 06:49
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
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Maverick
rugxulo wrote:
Maverick wrote:
What is the SENSE of a being that is all perfect and all powerful, yet creates us imperfect and lets us make mistakes (also horrible ones, should I make examples? And I don't only talk about war, but please tell me the sense of a 2years old child with terminal cancer).


Did God create suffering? No, it is the result of original sin.

You and your friends affirm that "God created everything and [..] Since God already knows everything... it means everything, event, destination already got decided before they were executed."
and now you contraddict yourself with the fable of the apple, do you REALLY believe in that utterbullshit??!? Do you REALLY believe the world has only 6000 years??!??! HOW can you???? PLEASE tell us you're pulling our chains!! PLEASE!!

Quote:
if you want to see that the Devil is the one who hurts us.

Then also the devil is a creation of God, thus its entire responsability.

Otherwise we're just TOYS in the amused hands of God, as I wrote above.

Can you really program in assembly? Because it requires a minimum amount of logic, which you demonstrate to lack entirely (I mean the minimum logic, not just the logic).

Quote:
God only wants what's best. The Devil just wants us to die like him, to lie, to suffer, to be deceived, so that we cannot accept God (as we are supposed to).

Tell me about Santa Claus now, does he and the flyin' reindeers REALLY exist?

Quote:
The Devil will say or do anything to pretend, but truth cannot be hidden. Do not fall for his lies. He is BAD, fully wrong, and fully useless.

HOW can a CREATURE OF GOD be BAD? fully wrong? and fully useless? HOW can a CREATURE OF GOD be all of that?

Quote:
(Sorry if that is too shocking for you, but it cannot be sugar-coated.)

I am all shattered and terrified.. MOOOAHAHAHHAHHA <-- evil laugh Very Happy

Quote:
Maverick wrote:
Are we TOYS in the hands of this f*cking God?

Can you explain the idea that God would willingly let Himself be crucified?

In my emulated-religious eyes a poor man was crucified, while his father was getting fun of it on his golden chair far, far above in total comfort..

Quote:
Maverick wrote:

Strike me with a lighting if you exist, you LAMER! Now, THIS has a sense! Smile


Wikipedia wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Caviezel

Caviezel was struck by lightning while filming The Passion of the Christ. He also was accidentally whipped and bruised his eye while filming the same movie.


Slightly coincidental, no? But of course you can deny that too (or anything, if you really wanted). Don't ask me why it happened because I don't know. But surely, lightning is well beyond human ability to control, no?

You're definitely menthal, my friend. It's a sad but now undeniable fact.

HEY! LOOK ABOVE!! A DONKEY IS FLYING!!!

*SLAP!*

Very Happy

_________________
Greets,
Fabio


Last edited by Maverick on 16 Feb 2007, 07:52; edited 1 time in total
Post 16 Feb 2007, 07:50
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
MCD wrote:
if you continue writing so much here, this thread will need a server for itself alone Wink

LOL Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

..but God will give Tomasz that server, don't doubt. Razz

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 16 Feb 2007, 07:51
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
tom tobias wrote:
My most humble apologies sir, you are absolutely correct, as usual, and I am wrong, as usual!
DaoDeJing ... I like your translation, YONG, better than mine!!

tom, first of all, I must emphasize that I truly respect you since you're a very knowledgeable person. Your knowledge and understanding over a broad range of topics is simply amazing! Smile

Seond, "DaoDeJing" is NOT MY translation. It is the genuine title of that book. As you mentioned in your message, you probably misunderstood the meaning of "De". (Some knowledge in HanZi, not just PinYin, would help a lot!) Smile


Maverick wrote:
...but God will give Tomasz that server, don't doubt.

I agree! And that server, without any need for maintenance, will run 24 hours a day, 365.24 days a year! Very Happy


YONG
Post 16 Feb 2007, 12:48
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