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vid
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vid
and i've learn that bible says homosexuals should be killed.
Post 29 Jan 2007, 20:51
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
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MichaelH
Have you read about King David and how he massacred seven races in the name of god. Hilter achieved a third of the jews, so 7 * 3 make King David 21 times worse than hilter. Yep the bible is the true source of love .....NOT!!!!
Post 29 Jan 2007, 21:46
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
well, hitler "did" some 6-7 million jews AND 20 million slavic people, don't forget about those. So it's just 18 times or so...
Post 29 Jan 2007, 21:55
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
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f0dder
vid wrote:

eeegh, and they give this to children to read ?!?

Well, it's mostly the burned-out mid-west redneck Amerikans that are ├╝ber-religious, right? Ever wondered why they're so inbred? Wink
Post 29 Jan 2007, 23:08
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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TmX
vid wrote:
man... i was reading something of bible, and that is MOST PERVERTED story i have ever read (Stephen King and Peter Jackson scripts included).

Specifically, part about Sodoma and Lot. Two angels come to visit him, but local men and boys "like them", and ask Lot to let them out. He offers them to do whatever they want to his two virgin daughters instead, but they refuse. Angels then tell Lot he and his family is only one "just and righteous" in town, and save him from destruction. Later his two daughters get him drunk and have children with him.

eeegh, and they give this to children to read ?!?


Yes Lot was definitely weak & dumb
And you miss the best part : the destruction of Sodom & Gomorah Twisted Evil
The same thing should happen to homosexuals nowadays Twisted Evil
J/K Laughing
Post 30 Jan 2007, 05:40
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Maverick



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Maverick
tantrikwizard wrote:
Maverick wrote:
While we're at it, please read the attached "101 contraddictions in the Bible".


Only 101? I've seen some documents pointing out no less than 2,000 contradictions in the bible.

I will go to hell for that! Wink

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 30 Jan 2007, 13:50
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rugxulo



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rugxulo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_of_contradiction

The Bible has many human authors, but they were all inspired by the Holy Spirit (aka, God), and as such it is also the Word of God. You talk about contradictions? Practically every book of the Bible quotes another, so how is that contradictory?

Luke 2:25 wrote:

Now there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon. This man was righteous and devout, awaiting the consolation of Israel, and the holy Spirit was upon him. It had been revealed to him by the holy Spirit that he should not see death before he had seen the Messiah of the Lord. He came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus to perform the custom of the law in regard to him, he took him into his arms and blessed God, saying: "Now, Master, you may let your servant go in peace, according to your word, for my eyes have seen your salvation, which you prepared in sight of all the peoples, a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and glory for your people Israel." The child's father and mother were amazed at what was said about him; and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, "Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."


MichaelH erroneously wrote:

Moses and the burning bush is a real giggle but not as weird as Abraham ( prophet of God ) having insane thoughts of burning his son Isaac as a sacrifice to show God his faith. Today such thoughts would see you in a nut house but Abraham is still considered to be a great prophet. Religious people are just totally insane!!!!


The Faith of Abraham
http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/text/gen15_6.htm

Hebrews 11:11 wrote:

By faith he [Abraham] received power to generate, even though he was past the normal age--and Sarah herself was sterile--for he thought that the one who had made the promise was trustworthy.
...
By faith Abraham, when put to the test, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer his only son, of whom it was said, "Through Isaac descendants shall bear your name." He reasoned that God was able to raise even from the dead, and he received Isaac back as a symbol.


A father willing to offer his son as a sacrifice to God? Yes, this is the ultimate sacrifice.

Jesus (Matthew 10:37) wrote:

"Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."


As the only son of God the Father, Jesus crucified is the perfect sacrifice.

Romans 5:6 wrote:

For Christ, while we were still helpless, yet died at the appointed time for the ungodly. Indeed, only with difficulty does one die for a just person, though perhaps for a good person one might even find courage to die. But God proves his love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. How much more then, since we are now justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath. Indeed, if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, once reconciled, will we be saved by his life.


vid confusingly wrote:

Specifically, part about Sodoma and Lot. Two angels come to visit him, but local men and boys "like them", and ask Lot to let them out. He offers them to do whatever they want to his two virgin daughters instead, but they refuse. Angels then tell Lot he and his family is only one "just and righteous" in town, and save him from destruction. Later his two daughters get him drunk and have children with him.
...
and i've learn that bible says homosexuals should be killed.


The Choice of Lot
http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/text/gen13_10.htm

2 Peter 2:1-9 wrote:

There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
Many will follow their licentious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled. In their greed they will exploit you with fabrications, but from of old their condemnation has not been idle and their destruction does not sleep. For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but condemned them to the chains of Tartarus and handed them over to be kept for judgment; and if he did not spare the ancient world, even though he preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, together with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the godless world; and if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (to destruction), reducing them to ashes, making them an example for the godless (people) of what is coming; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man oppressed by the licentious conduct of unprincipled people (for day after day that righteous man living among them was tormented in his righteous soul at the lawless deeds that he saw and heard), then the Lord knows how to rescue the devout from trial and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,


Romans 6:2 wrote:

How can we who died to sin yet live in it? Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life. For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection.
...
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


vid, sin deserves death (and can, in fact, mortally wound the soul) but we are all guilty, so should God let us all perish?

St. Paul (1 Timothy 1:13) wrote:

I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and an arrogant man, but I have been mercifully treated because I acted out of ignorance in my unbelief.
...
[God] wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.


John 8:3 wrote:

Then the scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery and made her stand in the middle. They said to him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Now in the law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. 2 So what do you say?" They said this to test him, so that they could have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger. But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he bent down and wrote on the ground. And in response, they went away one by one, beginning with the elders. So he was left alone with the woman before him. Then Jesus straightened up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She replied, "No one, sir." Then Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go, (and) from now on do not sin any more."


God desires mercy, not sacrifice. (Matthew 9:13, Hosea 6:6)

Isaiah 26:19 wrote:

But your dead shall live, their corpses shall rise; awake and sing, you who lie in the dust. For your dew is a dew of light, and the land of shades gives birth.


Ezekiel 37:12 wrote:

Therefore, prophesy and say to them: Thus says the Lord GOD: O my people, I will open your graves and have you rise from them, and bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and have you rise from them, O my people! I will put my spirit in you that you may live, and I will settle you upon your land; thus you shall know that I am the LORD. I have promised, and I will do it, says the LORD.
Post 31 Jan 2007, 17:19
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
rugxulo: what was confusing about my interpretation of Lot's story? I can't see how your quoting or link affects truth of my statement.

widen your thought range with different look on bible: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/19.html#1
Post 31 Jan 2007, 17:57
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MichaelH



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MichaelH
Quote:

A father willing to offer his son as a sacrifice to God? Yes, this is the ultimate sacrifice.


No, this is insane and anyone with thoughts like this needs to be reported to the authorities so the social welfare people can consider if taking away the children of such people to a safe environment is the correct thing to do. Rugxulo, please stop your insane religious physco babel!!!!!
Post 31 Jan 2007, 20:58
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tom tobias



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tom tobias
rugxulo, quoting an authority in the 'Bible', which paraphrases Jewish stories from the Torah wrote:

if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (to destruction), reducing them to ashes, making them an example
hmm, so now, we understand well, all of us I think, that the Islamic terrorists, and the terror committed by the Inquisition, and so on, and so on, for at least two thousand years, is derived from more than three thousand years of irrational Jewish rules and regulations, my question is this: At the time of Gautama, this notion of killing people because they had ideas different from ones' own, was, I suppose, also practiced by various Casts of Hindu believers. Yet, the Buddha himself, was, as I understand, very much opposed to this notion of killing "non-believers". However, the Japanese, in the 1930's, practicing what they claimed to have been Buddhist traditions, murdered, raped, and slaughtered MILLIONS of Koreans, Chinese, VietNamese, Burmese, Thai, Indonesians, and Phillipinos. Somewhere along the line, the Buddhists, at least those in Japan, began the same practice as the Jews--killing anyone whose social ettiquette and customs contradicted the "proper" or "correct" method or belief. What happened? Are we all just animals, fighting for survival? Perhaps all these weird religions exist to PROTECT one group of neanderthals from annhilation by some other group of neanderthals--I mean there is very little "sapiens" about ANY of these childish beliefs in gremlins, ghosts, devils, angels and so on....What about us lone wolves, who deny faith EVEN in the FASM forum doctrine of XOR? Gosh, I am on the fast route to oblivion....
Post 31 Jan 2007, 23:37
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rugxulo



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rugxulo
vid wrote:

rugxulo: what was confusing about my interpretation of Lot's story? I can't see how your quoting or link affects truth of my statement.

widen your thought range with different look on bible: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/19.html#1


Do you really consider God impure because of the actions of man? Does God not have the right, the duty, to keep his Earth pure from evil? Did He create man so that they could blaspheme Him and hurt his people? What is worse, the actions themselves or the mentioning of the actions to warn others? This story is meant as a warning to people who constantly and continually act with bad intentions: you will not go unpunished. The delay of God's possible wrath is not a license to sin but due to His overwhelming patience (suffering in the name of love). Should children be kept in the dark? They need to know and love God, too. (Do you really want for them all to grow up to be idolators, blasphemers, murderers, thieves, etc.??) Reading a story about sin does not make someone run out and do it. Hopefully, the opposite happens, and they cling to God out of love for His goodness (not fear) since He delivered the righteous ones from evil.

"Widen my thought range"? Uh, no. The word of God trumps anything written by man alone, especially that which contradicts Him. Beware false teachers, they only want to destroy us!

MichaelH wrote:
Quote:

A father willing to offer his son as a sacrifice to God? Yes, this is the ultimate sacrifice.


No, this is insane and anyone with thoughts like this needs to be reported to the authorities so the social welfare people can consider if taking away the children of such people to a safe environment is the correct thing to do. Rugxulo, please stop your insane religious physco babel!!!!!


Listen, if it wasn't God asking, why would he do it? He wouldn't! He never had children and of course loved his only son who God made and gave to him, but he loved God more (as you should). You should be saying, "Well, of course, a perfect God knows exactly what He's doing, and he Himself cannot do wrong." Did not the angel stop him before anything happened? It was a test. Duh.

tom tobias wrote:

hmm, so now, we understand well, all of us I think, that the Islamic terrorists, and the terror committed by the Inquisition, and so on, and so on, for at least two thousand years, is derived from more than three thousand years of irrational Jewish rules and regulations, my question is this: At the time of Gautama, this notion of killing people because they had ideas different from ones' own, was, I suppose, also practiced by various Casts of Hindu believers. Yet, the Buddha himself, was, as I understand, very much opposed to this notion of killing "non-believers". However, the Japanese, in the 1930's, practicing what they claimed to have been Buddhist traditions, murdered, raped, and slaughtered MILLIONS of Koreans, Chinese, VietNamese, Burmese, Thai, Indonesians, and Phillipinos. Somewhere along the line, the Buddhists, at least those in Japan, began the same practice as the Jews--killing anyone whose social ettiquette and customs contradicted the "proper" or "correct" method or belief. What happened? Are we all just animals, fighting for survival? Perhaps all these weird religions exist to PROTECT one group of neanderthals from annhilation by some other group of neanderthals--I mean there is very little "sapiens" about ANY of these childish beliefs in gremlins, ghosts, devils, angels and so on....What about us lone wolves, who deny faith EVEN in the FASM forum doctrine of XOR? Gosh, I am on the fast route to oblivion....


It's like you didn't even read what I quoted! Are you really that blind? Lot did not destroy anyone, God did. "The Lord gives and the Lord takes away." "Vengeance is the Lord's", and He has the right to punish whoever deserves it. These were not innocent people. They were (apparently) very obstinate and not exactly righteous. Their sin not only hurt themselves but extended to others, including God's faithful. "God will not let his holy ones suffer corruption." Should God let the world be destroyed because of a few? No.

Don't forget that even if the actions themselves are not evil, the intentions can be. You cannot judge by external appearances. In fact, you cannot judge at all, only God can (I've said this like three times already, remember?). God's judgment was out of love. He did save Lot and a few others, okay? How can you call evil that which explicitly says "You shall not kill"? Like I already said, if God doesn't exist, there is no good or evil, and in that case, there is no good or evil actions, including so-called murder. Lucky for us, He does exist. Too bad you don't believe.
Post 01 Feb 2007, 02:44
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vid
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vid
Quote:
Do you really consider God impure because of the actions of man?
Reread what i posted. I was talking about book, not about god.

Quote:
"Widen my thought range"? Uh, no. The word of God trumps anything written by man alone, especially that which contradicts Him. Beware false teachers, they only want to destroy us!
No problem with that "word of god" contradicts itself, and is written by men too? Even church accepts this and says bible was only "inspired by god". Good things were "inspired", things which are contradicting are "man's error"
Post 01 Feb 2007, 06:13
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Maverick



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Maverick
Also pope Leo X's writing to his fellow cardinal Pietro Bembo (then also secretary of state) was inspired by God? In one part, the pope's private letter to the cardinal said "How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us!", coherently with the luxury the pope used to be immersed in, then as now.
Ah, this holy spirit.. and the holiness of the Vicary of Christ!

rugxulo, will you EVER open your little eyes? Superstitions do not exist. God strike me with a lighting if it's n
Post 01 Feb 2007, 09:06
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rugxulo



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rugxulo
Maverick, not all the popes were saints, that is true. Even if what you say really happened (which I highly doubt), does it matter? What, did he somehow magically lose the ability to doubt like all of us? Faith is indeed a gift, but it can be spurned and ignored. It can be thrown away like any other gift. They say "it is the last thing to go". I have lived without and with faith, and I strongly prefer the latter.

Some people say "the only thing I know is that I know nothing" or "the more I learn, the less I find out I know". Beware thinking you have the answers to everything (and I honestly don't, but I am indeed convinced about God). If you "know yourself", you know that you are frail and cannot live based upon your own will.

I'll be honest, believing in all this does not come easily. "Grace is not cheap". Just be honest, and don't scorn others just because they are Christian. Even saints have weaknesses.
Post 01 Feb 2007, 13:06
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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tantrikwizard
Maverick wrote:
rugxulo, will you EVER open your little eyes? Superstitions do not exist. God strike me with a lighting if it's n


It is highly doubtful. rugxulo is illiterate and highly indocterinated. He's a prime target for fanatic cults because he's illiterate and therefore easily manipulated.

Rugxulo, I do hope you don't expect anyone to take you seriously as you have lost all creditability by demonstrating more than once your inability to prove your position and inability to rebuttle the arguments that disprove your fantasy beliefs. My suggestion is to get a higher education in philosophy and comparitive religion. Next try some propositional calculus so you can formulate and dispute arguments properly. But stay away from the cult based universities ran by jesus freaks, they will only screw your head up worse.
Post 01 Feb 2007, 13:20
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rugxulo



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rugxulo
tantrikwizard wrote:

But stay away from the cult based universities ran by jesus freaks, they will only screw your head up worse.


You're allowed to not believe, intentionally or unintentionally. Nobody is forcing your hand (since that's impossible). Even if you deny God, the commandments would seem like a good model to follow, IMO. But then you run into the problem that you can't do it alone (need grace). "Prayer is a condition set by God to obtain grace". So good luck. Confused

As far as avoiding Christian universities, there are indeed lots of 'em, but it is possible to go completely secular. It just sounds kinda silly to hear someone say, "The universe is 14 billion years old, and I can prove there is no God just from that" when that person is barely 40 or so. (Gee, very convincing).
Post 01 Feb 2007, 13:31
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Maverick



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Maverick
rugxulo wrote:
Maverick, not all the popes were saints, that is true. Even if what you say really happened (which I highly doubt), does it matter? What, did he somehow magically lose the ability to doubt like all of us?

Ok, but where is the influence of the so called Holy Spirit? And we are talking about a pope!

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 01 Feb 2007, 15:18
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Maverick



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Maverick
Maverick wrote:
rugxulo, will you EVER open your little eyes? Superstitions do not exist. God strike me with a lighting if it's n

By the way, I was supposed to be hit by a lighting at the "n". ;P

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 01 Feb 2007, 15:19
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rugxulo



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rugxulo
Maverick wrote:
rugxulo wrote:
Maverick, not all the popes were saints, that is true. Even if what you say really happened (which I highly doubt), does it matter? What, did he somehow magically lose the ability to doubt like all of us?

Ok, but where is the influence of the so called Holy Spirit? And we are talking about a pope!


Why do you believe one sentence over 1400 pages of God's word in the Bible?? Since when did one apocryphal sentence counteract Jesus' good works? But, you are so blinded by bias that you can't seem to understand that the ratio of people written about in the Bible proclaiming Jesus' sovereignty outweighs one stupid sentence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_X
Wikipedia wrote:

The remark "It has served us well, this myth of Christ" is often attributed to him, despite the fact that it first appears in John Bale's fiercely antipapal treatise The Pageant of the Popes.


(BTW, the Holy Spirit does not force anyone to believe, and we are still WAY far removed from God. "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". "I talk to you in human terms because your nature is weak". The Holy Spirit is the one who keeps us alive. Obviously, He is not so impatient to strike anyone with lightning just because they don't believe.)
Post 01 Feb 2007, 20:29
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vid
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vid
rugxulo: do you believe commands given by god in bible should be obeyed?
Post 01 Feb 2007, 22:28
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