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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
lol
nothing is real, life is just an illusion, take it easy... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
Post 02 Jan 2007, 17:42
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

I actually support communism to some degree


Really, I suspect going by this thread it would be the type of communism where you're the dictator and people are only allowed to think the way you do or they'll be executed ..... said with complete respect, love and admiration for our beloved leader kohlrak of course ..... may his detractors burn in the pits of hell for eternity Wink

BTW folks, I realise this post is probably not very helpful but we only live once so why not have fun while we are here Smile
Post 02 Jan 2007, 20:39
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
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kohlrak
Quote:
could you be specific about the insult?


Maverick wrote:
kohlrak wrote:
Saddam died because he was an idiot. Let's not forget that, folks.

Idiot is who, after ~2900 of his citizens die in a terrorist attack, makes die a greater number of them in a place which had NOTHING TO DO with that "cause". Now that's what I call an Idiot!!!

Please stop and repeat the above.

Idiot is who, after ~2900 of his citizens die in a terrorist attack, makes die a greater number of them in a place which had NOTHING TO DO with that "cause". Now that's what I call an Idiot!!!

Please stop and repeat the above.

Idiot is who, after ~2900 of his citizens die in a terrorist attack, makes die a greater number of them in a place which had NOTHING TO DO with that "cause". Now that's what I call an Idiot!!!

..'till you really get it

And now, even if we don't have Saddam anymore, Iraq, the USA and the whole world are certinaly a worser place. And please explain me why Pinochet deserved all of the USA support (also in killing the democratically elected President Alliende) while the ex USA puppet Saddam deserved to be hang?

You call idiot who?


If his constant "repeat until you get it" isn't an insult on my intellegence and my opinion, i don't know what is.

Quote:
i don't remember anyone seeing some of your opinions as offensive.


Take the below quote.

Quote:
Maybe I shouldn't say this but perhaps some good will come of it.

I've been reading the fasm forum for nearly three years now but have noticed since kohlrak has exploded on the scene and gate crashed every single thread posting complete nonsense, I find myself not enjoying coming here any more


Of course, he said he shouldn't have said it, but it's a perfect example that my opinions are not exactly loved.

Quote:
so after you noticed, you can ignore it. or ignore all political comments and don't respond to them, if you dislike political discussions.


So that's like saying i could call your country a crappy country that has no purpose in the world, and that your leader is a greedy, dishonest, backstabbing fool (though, i really don't feel that way, but this is an example) even though you support him fully. Are you saying that after you read (that and reading that he should be shot or hanged or something) you would simply just leave the post and not care that they insulted a choice that you made (assuming that your government is a republic or democracy)?

Quote:
purpose of moderators is more than just censoring unwanted discussions and deleting spam. Now, i (as moderator here) could have taken this as insult. (i didn't - successful insulting me is way harder )


i didn't say it was true, i'm saying that the attitude that i quoted implies that.

Quote:
and if you are victim of car crash? should we ban discussion about cars?


I find it hard to beleive that there would be opposing opinions about car wrecks, other than who caused the wreck.

Quote:
sorry to feel offended, but you must get over it somehow. For example someone may be offended by discussing masturbation on TV. Should TV completely censor this topic, just because of few individuals? Tom gets offended by someone using xor to zero registers. Should we ban using xor because of that? How about linux vs. windows?


Xor facts are facts. Linux/windows facts are facts. As for masturbation issues on TV, they should have a warning that it's gonna be a sensative thing, that's why they have TV ratings in America. I don't know how they do it where you come from.

Quote:
You see, there is always something that can offend you, and instead of closing your eyes, you should calm your mind and face the problem.


Of course, but opinions that are offencive really have no place in a nice community. I doubt that you'll go to a school and walk in and tell all the girls that they're all whores because they're 15. That's an opinion, a rather common one, and that's not exactly appropriate.

Quote:
so we shouldn't discuss things like MASM, common programming habits, linux pros and cons, just because they are out of our control?


If they're offencive opinions yes. If some one says something that is an opinion and not a fact, they deserve to be corrected, and usually are. My big issue is offencive opinions. I will never forget the long hours of school that we sat and discussed the differences between a fact an opinion. Plus, masm and masm format are things that we can base facts on, common programming habits are something we can control in ourselves, and linux pros and cons should be restricted to facts. I don't want to hear what is the "best." I want to know why something is the best, and i'm sure some people other than me can agree on that.

Quote:
there were so few lock requests on "hot" topics before, that i'd say you are wrong. Tomasz pointed this out already.


i'm referring to one in particular in that. I am unaware of posts that i have not read.

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i think the second request was initiated by your request. Still, most of involved people liked to discuss further.


If it was initiated by my request, and they agreed to it, they agreed to it.

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But opposing opposition of norm, means, to enforce the norm. And yes, i don't like enforcing any opinion on anyone.


If there's no one else to speak the norm, then you are only allowing the paranorm. An opinion has to be normal, or there really isn't any oposition of opinions.

Quote:
When a message contains offensive or indecent materials, the mod or admin would take appropriate measures against it. We should trust his/her discretion. And it is up to the members of this board to judge whether the mod or admin is exercising his/her power correctly.


My issue is that some materials are offensive, maybe not directly towards a particular user, but still offencive, and there is no action being done.

Quote:
nothing is real, life is just an illusion, take it easy...


I wish...

Quote:
Really, I suspect going by this thread it would be the type of communism where you're the dictator and people are only allowed to think the way you do or they'll be executed ..... said with complete respect, love and admiration for our beloved leader kohlrak of course ..... may his detractors burn in the pits of hell for eternity


Funny, i felt the same about you. Wink

Quote:
BTW folks, I realise this post is probably not very helpful but we only live once so why not have fun while we are here


Fine, as long as you're not hurting anyone else selfishly to have your own fun. And that's also an opinion, but for another thread.
Post 02 Jan 2007, 21:52
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
kohlrak: okay, so all concludes into censoring things you consider offensive, and such that we cannot affect them. How to sort out what is offensive and what isn't? Should it be enough if someone says "this topic feels offensive for me", to get the topic locked?
Post 02 Jan 2007, 22:30
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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kohlrak
Imagin your kid(s) or a little brother reading it. If his mouth drops, perhaps it's a bit too sensative. Or even another method, if the borderline between which opinion you have is weather or not you're left or right on the political spectrum, it's probably too offencive. And if you start seeing personal attacks, you know it's gone too far.
Post 02 Jan 2007, 22:40
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
I don't want my (future) children to have any problems with confronting different political or religious opinions. They should be sure enough about their opinions to happily confront it.

For personal attack, person who did it should be warned, not the topic censored. I would then have to censore 80% of topics where tom tobias discussed programming habits, because he almost always got insulted by someone for his opinions. But nobody had problem with that, everyone just ignored insult and didn't let himself distract by people who can't give facts.
Post 02 Jan 2007, 22:52
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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kohlrak
Quote:
I don't want my (future) children to have any problems with confronting different political or religious opinions. They should be sure enough about their opinions to happily confront it.


You don't beleive your kids should be oblivious to issues till they're "old enough to understand"?

Quote:
For personal attack, person who did it should be warned, not the topic censored.


But if more than one person starts going off, the topic is probably the starter, unless the issue resulted from a reply that the particularly insulting user said.

Quote:
I would then have to censore 80% of topics where tom tobias discussed programming habits, because he almost always got insulted by someone for his opinions.


Perhaps he should keep his posts restricted to facts if he didn't like insults.

Quote:
But nobody had problem with that, everyone just ignored insult and didn't let himself distract by people who can't give facts.


Perhaps only 1 or 2 people who give only opinions and no facts may be mearly annoying, but this can escolate (sp?) to greater numbers... Perhaps those people who can't give facts should be warned themselves.
Post 02 Jan 2007, 23:21
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
Quote:
When a message contains offensive or indecent materials, the mod or admin would take appropriate measures against it. We should trust his/her discretion. And it is up to the members of this board to judge whether the mod or admin is exercising his/her power correctly.

How would one know if the mod was exercising proper discretion without access to the censored material? If the material were removed no one would know whether or not the admin was doing us a favor. Having access to the potentially 'harmful' material wouldn't make it censored. Perhaps an additional forum called 'trash heap' is needed?

It is each individuals choice to take offense at a thing or not. If something offends you, then get over yourself and make a new choice not to be offended, its that simple. I prefer the potentially abusive or offensive material be left alone so I have the opportunity to exercise my own power of discretion if by chance i choose to respond to a potential a$$hole.

You can please some of the people all the time. You can please all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all the time. There is too much wasted energy attributed to avoiding 'harmful' speech in the remote possibility that some self-important jerk-off may get their feelings hurt or be offended. For these offended persons I have a few select words. First, get over yourself. Next, make the choice not to be offended. The world doesnt revolve around you and we all make compromises, its your turn.

Note to moderator(s): fasm is great. censorship sucks.
Post 02 Jan 2007, 23:29
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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kohlrak
Quote:
How would one know if the mod was exercising proper discretion without access to the censored material? If the material were removed no one would know whether or not the admin was doing us a favor. Having access to the potentially 'harmful' material wouldn't make it censored. Perhaps an additional forum called 'trash heap' is needed?


Request a screenshot, or if you feel that the mod is against you and abusing power, take a screenshot of your own post before editing it, if the mod is challenged, the mod could post a screenshot pointing out what s/he saw as offencive, though this is more about locking rather than going as far as deleting.

Quote:
It is each individuals choice to take offense at a thing or not. If something offends you, then get over yourself and make a new choice not to be offended, its that simple.


So is talking about "inappropriate things." Are you saying that we should allow "inappropriate material" because some one can see it as not offencive?

Quote:
I prefer the potentially abusive or offensive material be left alone so I have the opportunity to exercise my own power of discretion if by chance i choose to respond to a potential a$$hole.


Perhaps at least a warning before the offencive material starts, at least? We can't even get that, anymore.

Quote:
You can please some of the people all the time. You can please all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all the time. There is too much wasted energy attributed to avoiding 'harmful' speech in the remote possibility that some self-important jerk-off may get their feelings hurt or be offended.


Perhaps the "self-important jerk" is the one who is posting the offencive material... Is that plausable?

Quote:
For these offended persons I have a few select words. First, get over yourself. Next, make the choice not to be offended. The world doesnt revolve around you and we all make compromises, its your turn.


Get over ourselves? I've found that alot of offencive things said can either directly or indirectly relate to one's inability to make themselves feel special in any other way. I am well aware that everyone is capable of either not posting offencive material (which is easier than not taking offence to such material) or even easier to post a warning that it'll be offencive to alot of people. In my most recent post in the off topic board, that's exactly what i did. I gave a warning that some people might see offence to it.
Post 02 Jan 2007, 23:39
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tantrikwizard



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 142
tantrikwizard
kohlrak wrote:
Get over ourselves? I've found that alot of offencive things said can either directly or indirectly relate to one's inability to make themselves feel special in any other way. I am well aware that everyone is capable of either not posting offencive material (which is easier than not taking offence to such material) or even easier to post a warning that it'll be offencive to alot of people. In my most recent post in the off topic board, that's exactly what i did. I gave a warning that some people might see offence to it.

You were being considerate to include the warning label, however, that being said, one's opinions are always going to offend someone, it's inevitable. Your warning label didn't change the fact that the person got offended, you just warned them of the inevitability that someone will get offended. I quit posting warning these opinion may be offense to some dim-whitted self-important prick a long time ago, for it would be neccissary when posting any opinions at all. Someone is going to take offense at everything and you can't please everyone. Additionally, unless extreme care is taken, it is very difficult to articulate one's intentions on a message board. It is likewise very difficult to discern another's intention to provoke 'dis-ease'

I agree with Vid that a person should be strong enough and mature enough to ignore nonsense as well as intellegent enough discern what is proper. Clearly, this is a message board and people responding to posts are going to be 'on topic' a great majority of the time, whether 'offensive' or not. If we are discussing bit-shifting algorithms and someone posts an add selling pet rocks, it is just a waste of time and I would be happy if it were removed. I clicked the 'bit shifting algorithms' header and now there is someone selling pet rocks, a waste of time and clearly off topic. However, as threads (and conversations) often evolve, the evolution and progression is clearly part of the topic. Even if the progression evolves to something that is far removed from the original intention, there is normally a coherent progression of a single conversation. I like to know the mentality and maturity level of those participating in the conversations so as to know whether or not to respond to that individual in the future.

I also agree that facts are very important and not neccissarily opinions (however, this is the feedback section where opinions get posted) Most feedback is going to take the form of opinions, on other boards I would expect to see more facts. Still I like the ability to know who is immature and uneducated enough to post outragous opinions on the 'bit shift algorithm' topic. When dealing with opinions though, as in the feedback section, it is inevitable that feelings will get hurt, so it is my opinion to either post a warning preceding any opinions, or leave them off entirely. The feedback board is intended for people to post their opinions (in my opinion) and one should be intellectual and mature enough to know that there will be opinions expressed which are contrary to their own, though not withstanding, if not completely out in another gallaxy in off-topic land such as pet rocks, I would prefer the original posts be left intact and unchanged for my own discretion.

FASM rocks.
Post 03 Jan 2007, 00:23
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
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kohlrak
WARNING: OFFENCE MAY OCCURE BELOW.

Quote:
Additionally, unless extreme care is taken, it is very difficult to articulate one's intentions on a message board. It is likewise very difficult to discern another's intention to provoke 'dis-ease'


That's where the mod's opinion comes in. One dosn't have to be perfect, but some of this stuff is just plain obvious. Anything pertaining to Iraq (this includes bush) is a highly offencive topic. It's almost impossible to avoid hostility about such a topic. Abortion is another one, unless everyone agrees with it or disagrees with it, it won't do much harm, but it offends alot of people. The environment isn't a huge one, and that's probably where i'd set the borderline if i was one of the mods. In all reality, the topics of Iraq and Abortion, people have little facts about. They're still researching the effects of abortion, and too many people make money off of either supporting Bush or picking on him to actually get any true facts. People even go as far as saying Bush is solely responsable for the war in iraq, just or unjust (and that is a fact that some people actually sit and argue that, but this is for another topic, which really isn't appropriate for these boards in my opinion).

Quote:
I agree with Vid that a person should be strong enough and mature enough to ignore nonsense as well as intellegent enough discern what is proper. Clearly, this is a message board and people responding to posts are going to be 'on topic' a great majority of the time, whether 'offensive' or not. If we are discussing bit-shifting algorithms and someone posts an add selling pet rocks, it is just a waste of time and I would be happy if it were removed. I clicked the 'bit shifting algorithms' header and now there is someone selling pet rocks, a waste of time and clearly off topic. However, as threads (and conversations) often evolve, the evolution and progression is clearly part of the topic. Even if the progression evolves to something that is far removed from the original intention, there is normally a coherent progression of a single conversation. I like to know the mentality and maturity level of those participating in the conversations so as to know whether or not to respond to that individual in the future.


The immaturity of a handful of users does reflect on the whole community. If some one insults me, i see it as the whole community is insulting me, only those users are the ones who have the guts to actually do it (weather true or not). I do this, and i'm sure many people do this when they are new users, as well.

Quote:
I also agree that facts are very important and not neccissarily opinions (however, this is the feedback section where opinions get posted) Most feedback is going to take the form of opinions, on other boards I would expect to see more facts.


One can argue with facts. If something is a fact, and you are offended by a fact (rather than some one's opinion) it's a problem with you alone, and no one else to blame, but yourself, unlike when some one comes out and directly insults you or something you stand for. This is why i havn't made a post about Marx's theory, even though the idea crossed my mind due to some text earlier in this thread.

Quote:
Still I like the ability to know who is immature and uneducated enough to post outragous opinions on the 'bit shift algorithm' topic.


Is that a highly offencive topic? Perhaps one could still post facts on such a topic.

Quote:
When dealing with opinions though, as in the feedback section, it is inevitable that feelings will get hurt, so it is my opinion to either post a warning preceding any opinions, or leave them off entirely.


In that, we see alike. I'm not going to lie that feelings get hurt, it just annoys me how certain topics which are typically more offencive than others are being treated as if they were only as bad as the lesser offencive topics.

Quote:
The feedback board is intended for people to post their opinions (in my opinion) and one should be intellectual and mature enough to know that there will be opinions expressed which are contrary to their own, though not withstanding, if not completely out in another gallaxy in off-topic land such as pet rocks, I would prefer the original posts be left intact and unchanged for my own discretion.


Indeed, this would help prevent certain topics from becomming offencive without warning. But, i must confess, that it is rather difficult to do, as i myself "hijack" threads all the time.
Post 03 Jan 2007, 01:29
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
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MichaelH
Wow, this thread is still going Shocked I would have thought the mods would have Locked it by now Laughing
Post 03 Jan 2007, 02:18
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kohlrak



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kohlrak
Actually, one of them requested that i'd make this topic. Though, that is technically off topic.
Post 03 Jan 2007, 02:41
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
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MichaelH
You know what would be cool, a thread to debate whether the 'Locking "problem" threads' thread, should be locked or not Laughing

You crack me up kohlrak ..... however, I hope you've got it out of your system and start finding something constructive to post.

BTW kohlrak, check out the following image. It is a 1960's US made abortion instrument

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/18/Demonstration_cluster_bomb.jpg/300px-Demonstration_cluster_bomb.jpg

Is it offensive? No I guess not because the trivial things you list are more important Sad

You can read more about it at the following link, check out the "External links" links at the bottom for further elimination on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_bomb

Hope you can understand why I rage against such things. You can protect the leaders that allow these evil things to be created if you wish but one day if you're a half decent person, you'll start helping the people who try to make a difference to things that you would rather turn a blind eye too at this point in your life ..... and as Forrest Gump would say .... "that's all I've got to say bout that subject"..... for now Wink


Last edited by MichaelH on 03 Jan 2007, 08:51; edited 1 time in total
Post 03 Jan 2007, 03:17
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kohlrak



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kohlrak
Quote:
however, I hope you've got it out of your system and start finding something constructive to post.


How many posts of mine have you read? For sake of staying on topic, i want you pm the answer to me.

Quote:
Hope you can understand why I rage against such things. You can protect the leaders that allow these evil things to be created if you wish but one day if you're a half decent person, you'll start helping the people who try to make a difference to things that you would rather turn a blind eye too at this point in your life ..... and as Forrest Gump would say .... "that's all I've got to say bout that subject"..... for now


Everyone has their own personal evils. From what i've seen, most of us have had our creative moments where we came up with "evil weapons" like this. Most people actually fit a potential killer profile, but never actually kill. I don't think such topics as this should be talked about either, this is border-line gorey. I'm not sure how the moderators here would handle a topic going into detail on things such as torture, but that little link would probably fit on that type of list. It's war, and bad things happen during war, that includes the building of gorey weapons. I don't support war, but this stuff happens. I personally don't feel certain topics of war to be a friendly topic until years after the war is over, since the feelings for it have died down. I choose to disregard wartime reports or reports on anything current, because it's most likely changed "slightly" for propoganda. Look up veitnam and the korean war. No matter what war you look up, you'll always find information somewhere of conflicting death counts, conflicting opinions on everything. Even conflicting opinions on the rights of females to vote in the US. It happens. The one who turns out to beleive what's closest to the truth years later points and laughs at anyone that they know that was on the opposing side of the argument. Now, if you want to make comments like the underlined text against me, you go ahead. You're mearly proving my point. I'd like to make a note to anyone else reading this thread that normally i would have tried to insult him back, and he probably would have insulted me back again and it would have escolated further, but because of the nature of this thread, i'm being more tolerant than i usually am. Now, if some of you don't mind, i'd like to keep this thread on the original topic, opinions of why or why not we should lock sensative threads. I'm still waiting for some one to convince me that these are potential threats to the smooth running of the community, when i clearly am getting insulted in this and another post. These may not seem harsh, but they could clearly develop into something a little rougher if under an unmoderated condition, and this appears to be the case for these boards. Perhaps the moderators are used to this kind of topics and can handle it better than others, but i must point out that (from my experience in other places) that is probably half the reson that they may have been selected to be moderators. Moderating is a tough job, i'm well aware, so you need some one not so sensative to handle the job. I don't know if i'm standing alone here, or if i may be speaking for other users on the boards, or even perhaps future members of the boards. I, in short, feel that they're becomming a little too soft on what they see as offencive.
Post 03 Jan 2007, 04:40
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MichaelH



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MichaelH
You're the one who mentioned abortion...... what's the matter, do you now feel your country's method of abortion by laying thousand of indiscriminate mines dropped from a plane so innocent people can stand on them, is not efficient enough?

God bless America (and the other low life countries that make them) for having the insight to manufacture and use cluster bombs .... do I hear an amen Crying or Very sad

kohlrak, your "cry me a thousand tears" for the people who might get their feelings hurt PC crap, makes me want to vomit! Wake up and see the real victims of your beloved countries evil doings .... I doubt you're brave enough, you just want to cry and pretend you're actually making a difference.


Last edited by MichaelH on 03 Jan 2007, 08:17; edited 1 time in total
Post 03 Jan 2007, 05:37
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kohlrak



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kohlrak
Quote:
You're the one who mentioned abortion...... what's the matter, do you now feel your country's method of abortion by laying thousand of indiscriminate mines dropped from a plane so innocent people can stand on them, is not efficient enough?

God bless America (and the other low life countries that make them) for having the insight to manufacture and use cluster bombs .... do I hear an amen


Did i not say that such topics were for another thread? i'd gladly talk about this in PMs or perhaps a politely marked (as possibly offencive) thread.

Quote:
kohlrak, your "cry me a thousand tears" for the people who might get their feelings hurt PC crap, makes me want to vomit! Wake up and see the real victims of your beloved countries evil doings .... I doubt you're brave enough, you just want to cry and pretend you're actually making a difference.


How interesting... No warning of an offencive opinion, no care that this is a personal attack against me. I must thank you, sir. What we have here, is a perfect example of what happens when certain issues aren't taken care of properly. Now if you don't like my opinion on thread locking, then i must point out that lots of boards have run smoothly with such protocols implimented. Worst case scenario for such implimentation is that you end up locking up opposing political discussions in a community where the oppinions won't make any difference in how anything is seen. We have plenty of other boards doing the same things, having the same discussions, and often the users tend to be rather moody, especially to opinions that oppose theirs (which come from new users). On the other hand, if i'm right, we may even increase the serenity on these boards. As we can clearly see, some people cannot handle topics "maturely." They are amoung us, and it will unnerve alot of people here, including myself.
Post 03 Jan 2007, 05:57
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MichaelH



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MichaelH
Please stop using that smug sanctimonious US attitude of inciting hatred and then running for the high moral ground, your actions are completely transparent.

You didn't answer my question and since you brought the subject of abortion up, I'll repeat it for you -

Quote:

What's the matter, do you now feel your country's method of abortion by laying thousand of indiscriminate mines dropped from a plane so innocent people can stand on them, is not efficient enough?
Post 03 Jan 2007, 08:14
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Quote:
Now if you don't like my opinion on thread locking, then i must point out that lots of boards have run smoothly with such protocols implimented.
this board runs smoothly for 3.5 years without such censorship
Post 03 Jan 2007, 08:32
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YONG



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YONG
Listed below is part of the "Registration Agreement Terms" to which we, members of this board, have agreed when making our registration.

"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit."

We have to (and have agreed to) trust the discretion of the mod or admin. If we think he or she is doing a lousy job or abusing power, we can speak up and launch a complain, just like what kohlrak has done. If nothing is done after all, simply stop surfing the board!

YONG
Post 03 Jan 2007, 12:56
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