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mattst88



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 260
Location: South Carolina
mattst88
the word is offensive. I thought it was a typo at first, but you've made it twice, so here's a heads-up Smile

kohlrak's story of how the Iraq mess unfolded is quite an interesting one, at that.

Honestly, kohlrak: just like you're still learning assembly, you're still learning about everything else. Don't pretend you know the inner workings of geopolitics.
Post 03 Jan 2007, 04:15
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Quote:
Honestly, kohlrak: just like you're still learning assembly, you're still learning about everything else. Don't pretend you know the inner workings of geopolitics.


No one knows the inside and out of politics, if they did, they would probably be president, not Bush. I forget if it was called Verona Papers or Vernona papers, or something else, but it's starting to just now get around on the news. It was confirmation that a US president allowed Russian spies to get into high spots in the US government during the cold war. If we're only finding about that now, how long will it be till we stop hearing lies about Iraq? I'd say at least 5 or 10 years after the war is over. Maybe more. I'm just showing you all what i see, my opinion. Perhaps i'm right, perhaps i'm wrong. But, if i'm right, you maybe falling for propoganda that is untrue. You must remember that everything you hear right now is exadurated one way or another, and in some cases made up completely. People are making money off of this war, they can lie all they want, and people would beleive them. That's my little problem with everyone bustin' Bush. Heck, maybe i'm wrong about Saddam having a warning before we went into Iraq. News is news. Just because you hear something on the news, dosn't make it true. They had this issue in many wars. The idea is to un-nerve us or nerve us one way or the other, so we persuade our leaders to make certain choices that "we want" them to make. That's not a new concept, but we all still fall for it to some degree. There's a thing i was always told about the US presidency. The last 3 years of a president's term, the next president gets credit for, because the next president is busy changing what the last did, because he was of the opposit party. If that, which i have defined in the last sentance, is true, we have Clinton to blame for this war, not Bush. But, that 3 year thing is only a theory, but an interesting one, might i add.
Post 03 Jan 2007, 04:51
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pelaillo
Missing in inaction


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 878
Location: Colombia
pelaillo
Quote:

I'd say at least 5 or 10 years after the war is over.

The "standard" time for declassifying US secrets is 30 years. That's why the CIA backing to the Pinochet golpe in Chile was declassified in 2003.
During the same lapse, it was denied and dismissed as a silly "conspiracy theory".
Post 03 Jan 2007, 15:47
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

During the same lapse, it was denied and dismissed as a silly "conspiracy theory".


Sadly, there is a very long list of atrocities perpetrated by US mercenary killers ( opps .... my mistake, "US military" ) such as the CIA backing to the Pinochet golpe in Chile you mention stretching back too ..... gee so many come to mind I guess the Philippine-American War (a better name would be slaughter of innocent people) that started in 1899. Maybe even before this.

One of the most astounding crimes perpetrate by the US was the movie "Black Hawk Down". How can such an event where US mercenary killers ( opps there's that mistake again .... "US military" .... I really have to work on that Wink ) can gun down so many innocent men women and children in cold blood and yet not one trial was held and to really show the contempt the US feels for the rest of the world, they went and made a movie about it where they were the heroes Sad

I watched Black Hawk Down and had this terrible sinking feeling, if the world can swallow such lies, there's no stopping the blood shred around the world at the hands of the US mercenary killers ..... damn it, there's that problem of mine again Wink
Post 03 Jan 2007, 20:41
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
There's no Freedom without Truth.
Post 04 Jan 2007, 06:59
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Maverick wrote:
There's no Freedom without Truth.


Nice quote... That would be an intresting thing to get philisophical about, considering that it makes sence to me since it seems many people are slaves to the opinions of the media, which they take better than doing the research for themselves.
Post 04 Jan 2007, 07:53
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
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Maverick

Quote? I thought it while I was typing it.

And I really mean it.

And the fact that the press was ultracontrolled during the Iraqi (and not only) wars doesn't really score in favour of Truth and thus of REAL Freedom.

How was the operation called? Iraqi Freedom?

hmm..

But how can I diminish your faith in your administration? It's impossible, it's a lost cause from the very beginning.

Post 04 Jan 2007, 11:07
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Maverick wrote:

Quote? I thought it while I was typing it.

And I really mean it.

And the fact that the press was ultracontrolled during the Iraqi (and not only) wars doesn't really score in favour of Truth and thus of REAL Freedom.

How was the operation called? Iraqi Freedom?

hmm..

But how can I diminish your faith in your administration? It's impossible, it's a lost cause from the very beginning.



I'll remember this quote. lol It's your own quote. lol I haven't quite lost faith in Bush more than i have in any other president. I know the government lies like the media, though probably not as much. The government usually does it's lieing through the media, so it's hard to tell who's really doing the lieing. My opinion is that if you can't bash Regan, Bush, and Clinton, why bash Bush? For all we know, Bush himself could have received a visit from men in black suits with black glasses, though i find it unlikely. People forget that we have 3 branches of government, and none of them can say anything without at least one of the 2 others' approval. Bush's only real job is to sit and take the punishment for weather or not the other 2 groups approved or denied one of his ideas.

The 3 branches are Legislative, Judicial, and i forget what the other one is. Legislative is congress and the house of represenatives, they make laws. Judicial is the supreem court and other courts,l they make decisions. The third section (which is where bush is, beleive it or not) makes sure those laws are carried out, and it consists of the president, sometimes the military, the police. Bush is technically an elected police officer with special priviledges and dosn't go around chasing "bad guys."
Post 04 Jan 2007, 12:11
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m



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 304
Location: in
m
USA attacks Iraq, captures Saddam alive.
Why not kill him on-the-spot ?
USA thought Saddam should be given fair chance of justice.
A court within Saddam's country was formed.
The court sentenced Saddam for hanging.
What is is unfai about that ?
Post 05 Jan 2007, 08:59
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
hohoho!!!
Post 05 Jan 2007, 12:23
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
Problem here is that many people believe (or are brainwashed) that USA mercenary kill... damn, you give me your disease Wink, are the GOOD guys! Yup..

However I believe we are not babies anymore to believe that Superman (aka Bush) comes to save the world from the BAD guys (the evil Dr. Saddam). Wink Saying: Go Superman.. err Bush, go when he sends his mighty mercenary killers (err military) to kill the BAD guys (err innocents or Iraq people).. for some "unknown" reason

I'm not necessary saying most other presidents are better (though some are), but don't fall prey to their manipulations so easily.

Sorry for being so sarcastic
Post 05 Jan 2007, 13:46
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

Sorry for being so sarcastic


Sarcastic wit is one of the best forms of humour, bettered of course by the classic tried and tested form of humour known as toilet humour. However both forms of humour pale in comparison to the missing of Tomasz's attempts at irony .... comic gold Smile


A very funny parody film of the US belief that they are the good guys was a film called "Mars attacks". If you haven't seen it, the Martians came to earth and just before they opened fire and blew everything/everyone up, they said "we come in peace" ..... the outrageously funny thing about it was that most Americans missed the fact they were being portrayed as the Martians in this film ..... but I guess in America if humour isn't the type of humour of the three stooges that hits them fear in the face, humour usually goes right over their heads..... and yes you folk from the US that do not understand British humour, this is the reason why.

Now if only we can find something like in the film similar to yodeling so the US mercenary killers Wink heads will explode, maybe the world can get around to forming some lasting peace. How the US came to believe peace will come at the end of a gun, I'll never know.
Post 05 Jan 2007, 23:35
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Here's alittle something for some of you to digest...

1. I do recall that they may have found ICBM (InterContinental Ballistic Missile) silos.

--These silos are capable of holding nuclear weapons

--If there were nukes, we gave them more than enough time to burry them too deep for us to locate with our tools, or move the missles "temporaraly" (with the assumtion that they wouldn't get over thrown) to wherever they got them from or even to another "terrorist training camp nation" (since it might not have been Iraq who owned it, but mearly harbored it)

2. Saddam was in charge during desert storm (or so i've heard)

-- This is often used as an argument against Bush, but perhaps Saddam was looking to get back at the Bush family himself.

-- He could have gained a certain cockyness from not dieing in that war, and not caring about his own country.

-- During the iraq war, they actually fought back this time (as opposed to not fighting in Desert Storm)

Ok, with the above (and maybe some of it's true or not, but since it's wartime we really don't know) said, i'll propose my little theory on the war of iraq and the intentions behind it below. You may beleive it or not, but this is how i see the whole thing.

We all know that Bush isn't the quickest guy on the Earth, when it comes to thinking. He saw on the attacks of 9/11 (supposedly orchestrated by Bush, but i don't buy that) as a reson to start attacking these gurilla groups known as "terrorist organizations." He saw that there was a camp in Iraq. Perhaps there were camps in other nations, bigger camps, but perhaps that was the point. My guess was that he figured that if he took out their camp in Iraq, that it might scare that organization and others because of the United States is the everfamous "world police" (weather or not you feel that is right). Of course, you'd probably ask that since this was only one attack why he would even do anything on this one attack. Well, the United States has become famous for running (in the terrorist world) as well as being a world police. Bush probably saw that if they actually fought back and took iraq (hoping that it would be quick) that it would free the US from all future attacks. Problem was, it wasn't quick. Iraq's leader fled, and the opposition kept comming. It's like Vietnam, only terrorists instead of communists. He didn't expect that the terrorists would get more terrorists from outside the country. And to prevent making the US a more favorable target (the "And there they run again" thing the terrorists have with the us) he's kinda stuck finishing this war. I think he did what was needed for the US, only that he picked the wrong nation, and/or they didn't take proper measures to make sure they couldn't bring allies into the country. Perhaps if they tried to make a boreder to stop the immigration, they would be able to take control of Iraq alot more quickly. Let's not forget that Iraqi soldiers might suck on purpose to keep the US there as long as they can for 2 simple resons. 1, some may want more and more soldiers to be killed to make the US run, and 2 some of them think that they alone won't be able to hold Iraq for long no matter how much the US trains them, since they will be bombarded by everything.
Post 06 Jan 2007, 02:27
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

United States is the everfamous "world police" (weather or not you feel that is right)


Yes I seen "Team America World police", talk about hilarious, the Puppet sex was just totally insane Smile
As for Kim Dae-jung's song "I'm so rone ree" (lonely), it still makes me giggle Smile


I guess if the US can laugh at themselves like that maybe?????? things will get better.


Last edited by MichaelH on 06 Jan 2007, 05:24; edited 1 time in total
Post 06 Jan 2007, 04:54
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
The problem with the US (and why they were even targeted by the terrorists in the first place) was because they're too generous. They help israel, and they get burned. US is notorious for giving help, even if it is never appriciated.
Post 06 Jan 2007, 04:58
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

They help israel, and they get burned.


I know, I fail to understand it myself. Why the great gift of US made land mines that Israel kindly spread all over Lebanon by the hundreds of thousands by way of cluster bombs for innocent people to stand on for the next centrary wasn't appreciated by the world, I will never understand .... I guess such mysteries will never be understood huh Confused

Edit:

BTW kohlrak, did you see that the US's great enermy and "real bad guys", the Chinese army, was the first into Lebonon trying to clean up the crime against humanity .... no I guess in America you don't get such reports Sad
Post 06 Jan 2007, 05:32
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Quote:
know, I fail to understand it myself. Why the great gift of US made land mines that Israel kindly spread all over Lebanon by the hundreds of thousands by way of cluster bombs for innocent people to stand on for the next centrary wasn't appreciated by the world, I will never understand .... I guess such mysteries will never be understood huh


Well that goes back to the subject of "the pains of war." There had to be a war, therefor there had to be injustice. That's war for you.

Quote:
BTW kohlrak, did you see that the US's great enermy and "real bad guys", the Chinese army, was the first into Lebonon trying to clean up the crime against humanity .... no I guess in America you don't get such reports


American society dosn't like China much, so news won't exactly say anything positive about it. Then again, your news could have been the one who lied. We won't know for a long time. =p Not that it matters. If anyone helps anyone else in the world, the positive things are never noticed, only the negative things. That's how the world is, and that's how people are. I wonder what good things Bush has done. I wonder if hitler did something other than the holocaust, something that was good for Germany. I'm not saying that it makes up for the bad things, that's for you to judge, but at the same time i'm saying that we still hear little of anything good.
Post 06 Jan 2007, 05:53
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asmfan



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 392
Location: Russian
asmfan
Leaders come and go away but mere people suffer
Post 06 Jan 2007, 09:09
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

Then again, your news could have been the one who lied.


The clearing of land mines by the Chinese army was a BBC news report, a "coalition partner" of the current "War of Terror" the US is waging at the moment. Did they lie, I doubt it, why would they, there is nothing in it for them to lie.

Quote:

Not that it matters


Of course it matters. Those mines can't be left to lie waiting ..... you're such a sick individual kohlrak! It's high time you rethought what is right and wrong!
Post 06 Jan 2007, 09:40
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
MichaelH wrote:
Quote:

Then again, your news could have been the one who lied.


The clearing of land mines by the Chinese army was a BBC news report, a "coalition partner" of the current "War of Terror" the US is waging at the moment. Did they lie, I doubt it, why would they, there is nothing in it for them to lie.


Um, they make money off of their news stories. Not all news is true. Due to deadlines, they report stuff as fast as they get it (e.g., so-and-so is our new president, based upon a rough exit poll) and sometimes have to eat crow.

MichaelH wrote:
Quote:

Not that it matters


Of course it matters. Those mines can't be left to lie waiting ..... you're such a sick individual kohlrak! It's high time you rethought what is right and wrong!


Um, you're misinterpreting his words. He's not in favor of land mines (yes, I don't know why the U.S. doesn't just sign the dumb "ban land mines" treaty, they are so useless). Besides, kohlrak ain't even old enough to vote, okay? Surprised
Post 06 Jan 2007, 18:05
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