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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
HyperVista wrote:
NTOSKERNL_VXE - you can ftp download Tomasz's presentation here for off-line viewing outside your browser: http://tinyurl.com/vepr3


Uhh... hehe, any way to get a transcript of that? Subtitles? ;P
Post 26 Dec 2006, 04:03
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
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vid
no one here who would write them :]
Post 26 Dec 2006, 09:55
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m



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 304
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m
Cool


Last edited by m on 16 Jul 2007, 07:38; edited 2 times in total
Post 28 Dec 2006, 09:17
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
m wrote:
I think Tomasz is a stupid guy


Sorry to disagree, M, but, Tomasz, in my opinion, is clever, not stupid. His decision to create FASM, and this forum are laudable, and he has, in my opinion, helped to promote assembly language.
Quote:
Had he been smart, he would write some AI-enabled program
AI, for those FASM forum members who may not know, is a 1960's era notion, promulgated by MIT and Stanford, whereby one should use LISP to create "Artificial Intelligence". Both AI, and LISP, not assembly language, are obsolete, in my opinion.
Quote:
would invent some breakthrough technique for whole Compute Community
Well, and this is the point of the long debate about Macros, and FASM. FASM is no longer, maybe never was, a pure assembler. Tomasz calls it a compiler, because it has evolved into a "something for everyone" software tool. If one likes AI, and LISP, FASM will permit one to create macros to implement those ancient notions. Point is, FASM IS a tool for the "whole" computing community. It is sufficiently flexible to permit the most ardent high level language lover to create whatever he/she wishes. How much more "whole" can one be?
Smile
Post 28 Dec 2006, 12:46
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Tommy



Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 489
Location: Norway
Tommy
agree tom! so tell me m: what are you doin' here if you're not interested in his work? if u don't like it and don't use fasm, why do u bother posting your view on it? about "breakthrough techniques"; if every genius should invent something like that, we wouldn't be where we are today i think. keep it up tomasz!
Post 28 Dec 2006, 16:43
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DOS386



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1901
DOS386
Quote:

I think Tomasz is a stupid guy ( with all due respect ).


Fundamendally disagree. Crying or Very sad

Quote:
Why would he waste his time and efforts in writing a free tool for dying
assembly language's rare lovers ?


Well, I recently switched to the "dying" assembly Laughing

Feel free to love the latest unfree Vista .NET crap or whatever ... but I
won't join ...

_________________
Bug Nr.: 12345

Title: Hello World program compiles to 100 KB !!!

Status: Closed: NOT a Bug
Post 28 Dec 2006, 19:27
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
m wrote:
Had he been smart, he would write some AI-enabled program or would invent some breakthrough technique for whole Compute Community.


Unless that AI turned out to be a virus, viciously infecting other people's computers and optimizing their code, it wouldn't make 1% as much a difference as FASM makes. Wink
Post 28 Dec 2006, 19:43
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Yikes, such absurdity!

Forrest Gump wrote:
Stupid is as stupid does.


Creating one of (if not THE) best assemblers, making it FOSS, assembles itself (!), fast yet powerful macros, multiple output formats, no linker needed, two IDEs, excellent Win32 support, and being OS portable ("eight and counting") ... well, that sounds pretty generous, powerful, well-designed, and useful, IMO.

Natural languages (6000+ still existing?) do indeed die, but computer languages are a special case because they've only been around a short period of time. If all the popular OSes still support assembly, then how could it die? FASM has (at the very least) made it apparent that assembly, when used correctly (or brilliantly, in this case), can create not just useful tiny utils but full-fledged GUI apps, entire OSes, and can be portable, maintainable, and still be fast, small, etc. C is not the perfect solution for everything, else nobody would use C#, C++, Ada, Java, Pascal, BASIC, Haskell, Perl, Ruby, Python, Erlang, Eiffel, LISP, Fortran, Lua, Forth, Rexx, Euphoria, D, HLA, XPL0, Modula2, BCPL, Icon, Caml, Oberon, Sphinx C--, etc. (see http://www.99-bottles-of-beer.net for such language examples).

P.S. There was a thread recently on FreeBASIC's forum about some unusual BASIC variant (Parrot) that one guy thinks would simplify everything, but nobody agreed. Anyways, he wants it written in assembler, but most people there were against the idea. I had already prepared a bunch of facts about FASM, etc. to respond to their bias, but the thread was locked (so, oh well, they will have to live in ignorance)!
Post 28 Dec 2006, 23:14
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
m wrote:
I think Tomasz is a stupid guy ( with all due respect ).
Why would he waste his time and efforts in writing a free tool for dying
assembly language's rare lovers ?
Had he been smart, he would write some AI-enabled program or would
invent some breakthrough technique for whole Compute Community.

He's very intelligent to act like he does. He would be stupid if he would seek only money, like you wish.
When he'll need that, he'll be a very recognized name in the industry. So also the (necessary) money will come, and plenty, when it will be the time for it.

Look, m, even from a commercial point of view (which I'm sure is not the main drive of Tomasz at all, and this certainly adds to his big intelligence, it doesn't subract as you think), he did a very intelligent thing. Every successful BIG business started for free (eBay, Google, WinAmp, etc..) to gain popularity, and then eventually moved to a commercial model as well, in part or in whole.

Stupid is who doesn't see past his nose, m. Wink (why "m", by the way? m like myopia? joking Wink ).

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Greets,
Fabio
Post 29 Dec 2006, 04:24
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m



Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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m
Confused


Last edited by m on 16 Jul 2007, 07:40; edited 1 time in total
Post 31 Dec 2006, 09:15
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7724
Location: Kraków, Poland
Tomasz Grysztar
m wrote:
I think Tomasz is a stupid guy ( with all due respect ).
Why would he waste his time and efforts in writing a free tool for dying
assembly language's rare lovers ?
Had he been smart, he would write some AI-enabled program or would
invent some breakthrough technique for whole Compute Community.

Yeah, I'm stupid, I tried to invent one breakthrough technique for my doctoral thesis but so far I failed ultimately. Stupid, you may be sure.
Post 31 Dec 2006, 09:23
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
m: you forgot to take into account one thing: FASM is best designed language of these assemblers. Regardless of it's license and source code, designing a great language is worthy and not stupid.

tomasz: and why is that stupid? you saved time for everyone else in future trying to do same. you made your little bit of work in math evolution (unless it was done already by someone else)
Post 31 Dec 2006, 09:34
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7724
Location: Kraków, Poland
Tomasz Grysztar
http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=804 Wink

And Happy New Year to everyone!
Post 31 Dec 2006, 12:34
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RedGhost



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 443
Location: BC, Canada
RedGhost
m, I am a bit drunk now but even still you are the one looking stupid currently not Tomasz! You may say writing an assembler is an old technique but consider the image/object production for multiple operating systems (Windows, Linux, DOS), the /amazing/ pre-processor and the fact it is self compiling. If you can write an assembler the same as FASM with all the aforementioned features then you have the right to call Tomsaz stupid. Until that day my friend you should reserve your posts.

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redghost.ca
Post 31 Dec 2006, 12:43
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Tomasz wrote:
I tried to invent one breakthrough technique for my doctoral thesis but so far I failed ultimately
Was Leibniz stupid for not recognizing Gauss' transform?
Perseverence is the key to meeting success with your dissertation. Let Marie Sklodowska, whom we know as Madame Curie, great Polish scientist, inventor, and author, first female scholar employed at the Sorbonne, ONLY person, male or female, to ever win TWO nobel prizes in two different sciences, serve as your guide.
If necessary, take a year off, as Gauguin did. Both Gauguin and Curie were OLDER than you, when they COMMENCED their important studies.
Failure is relative. Most of us could not even understand the question, let alone the answer, for the topic of your investigation. Mathematics takes concentration, solitude, and rest. Relax a bit. Read some poetry. Study art: Hokusai was seventy years old when he created his famous opus:
"The great wave of Kanagawa"
http://www.tcd.ie/Music/JF%20History/debussy.html
Above all, pay no attention to M, or those whose comments are directed as personal attacks, rather than criticisms intended to spur you forward.
Post 31 Dec 2006, 15:56
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arafel



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
arafel
On a unrelated topic..

What discipline(s) do you teach at the uni. Tomasz?

(just out of curiosity)
Post 31 Dec 2006, 17:17
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DOS386



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1901
DOS386
Quote:

* Tomasz had made FASM free ( of cost and else ), there is a Ocean Full of great Free and Open Source Software already there.


But maximal one usable asembler (NASM).

Quote:
* Writing an assembler is not a challenging task, it's an old technique.


Didn't know this fact Confused

Quote:
* I appreciate that Tomasz put so much hardwork in FASM and then gave this tool to us, but frankly I could definitely do without FASM, when I have MASM32


MASM32 is useful for viral devel ONLY: only closed source, only
"Windows" - just viriiii only Laughing

_________________
Bug Nr.: 12345

Title: Hello World program compiles to 100 KB !!!

Status: Closed: NOT a Bug
Post 31 Dec 2006, 18:09
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
m wrote:
* However writing a Natural Language Processor that could read this post and would send me an appropriate reply will be challenging at the least.


Suppose he did. Would any of us know? Wink
Post 01 Jan 2007, 03:30
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7724
Location: Kraków, Poland
Tomasz Grysztar
It seems I'm really bad at being ironical - it's the second time when my try becomes completely misunderstood. Very Happy

arafel: I teach mathematics.
Post 01 Jan 2007, 22:40
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
It's funny when it happens though Very Happy

Maybe you should warn us at the start of a post that you're going to attempt irony Wink
Post 01 Jan 2007, 23:14
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