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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
sorry guys from Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria:
Quote:
EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. You agree that you will not export or re-export the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, any part thereof, or any process or service that is the direct product of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT (the foregoing collectively referred to as the "Restricted Components"), to any country, person or entity subject to U.S. export restrictions. You specifically agree not to export or re-export any of the Restricted Components (i) to any country to which the U.S. has embargoed or restricted the export of goods or services, which currently include, but are not necessarily limited to Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria, or to any national of any such country, wherever located, who intends to transmit or transport the products back to such country; (ii) to any entity who you know or have reason to know will utilize the Restricted Components in the design, development or production of nuclear, chemical or biological weapons; or (iii) to any entity who you know or have reason to know has been prohibited from participating in U.S. export transactions by any federal agency of the U.S. government. You warrant and represent that neither the BXA nor any other U.S. federal agency has suspended, revoked or denied your export privileges.


this one is great, post it to every Java fan you know:
Quote:
NOTE ON JAVA SUPPORT. THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT MAY CONTAIN SUPPORT FOR PROGRAMS WRITTEN IN JAVA. JAVA TECHNOLOGY IS NOT FAULT TOLERANT AND IS NOT DESIGNED, MANUFACTURED, OR INTENDED FOR USE OR RESALE AS ON-LINE CONTROL EQUIPMENT IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS REQUIRING FAIL-SAFE PERFORMANCE, SUCH AS IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, DIRECT LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES, OR WEAPONS SYSTEMS, IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF JAVA TECHNOLOGY COULD LEAD DIRECTLY TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE


note that if you are from outside of USA or Canada, than your local law is stronger. This means that if local law says you CAN do something, and EULA says you CAN'T, then you CAN.
Post 15 Nov 2006, 17:47
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arafel



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
arafel
vid wrote:

note that if you are from outside of USA or Canada, than your local law is stronger. This means that if local law says you CAN do something, and EULA says you CAN'T, then you CAN.


Confused Somehow I doubt that MS allowed this in any of their EULAs.

Usually when EULA states something like "this license should be governed by ___ law, unless another local law is required to be applied." means that if a particular country law allows one to export freely without any restrictions and EULA prohibits - you are not allowed to export. But if a particular country prohibits export and EULA allows, you still won't be able to export. It's kinda works only in a single direction Smile
Post 15 Nov 2006, 18:27
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
nope. at least not in slovakia.

btw, it's
Quote:
If this product was acquired outside the United States, then local law may apply.


and, if slovak law allows you to do something, then any part of license prohibiting this is invalid and not taken into account - i got this confirmed by law professor.
Post 15 Nov 2006, 18:37
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
Lets think about this, Microsoft in that EULA tries to prevent the use of MASM on countries that are enemy of USA, OK, so isn't Microsoft an enemy of USA for save those countries to use such ugly assembler?Laughing
Post 15 Nov 2006, 18:43
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arafel



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
arafel
Don't know what WIPO treaties Slovak republic complies with, but wouldn't an US based body will be able to file a suit on ground of perpetration against some International Law when, let's say an aspect which wasn't properly (or at all) covered by local IP act, was broken?
Post 15 Nov 2006, 20:35
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Many thanks for your humor, we need more of it on this forum!!
LocoDelAssembly wrote:

so isn't Microsoft an enemy of USA for save those countries to use such ugly assembler?
In the USA mentality, everything made in USA is great and wonderful, so these seven poor countries, now "denied" access to "terrific" microsoft assembler are being properly punished for their poverty. Strange then that Mali, and Central African Republic, and Bhutan, and Uruguay are not also on that list... Both Iran and Iraq could move over to the list of good countries, if only the current political regimes could be overthrown, and a new government put in place, that would understand the need for those two countries to give USA all their oil for free, then, USA would allow their citizens to use MASM, perhaps even with a modest discount in price, for volume sales....Oh, you mean it is 2006, not 2000, and the USA is already engaged in changing the government in Iraq. Oh. ok, well back to my nap....
Post 15 Nov 2006, 21:16
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
i am really not expert about this. i think that it's european rule, that local law is stronger than license (eg. agreement). To me, it seems logical (i know.. no logic in law). Why should we allow people to agree on something that is against law?
Post 15 Nov 2006, 22:18
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
The real question is, am I the only one who thinks "you can only write for Windows" is ridiculous? What if someone's license said, "You must wear a beanie and eat chocolate popsicles while using this program"? Is that legal, too??

BTW, I suspect (though can't prove it) that the U.S. government has made some weird law preventing people from exporting things to Syria, Iran, etc. (which are probably not "U.S.-friendly" countries, probably don't have U.S. embassies). At least, last I heard, visiting Cuba was a no-no and you'd be liable to getting fined $$$ from Uncle Sam if you did. (It's weird navigating around other peoples' grudges ... like having two divorced parents: definitely NOT fun!).
Post 16 Nov 2006, 04:12
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
Quote:
BTW, I suspect (though can't prove it) that the U.S. government has made some weird law

ahem... aren't laws available to public? It's enough of obfuscation that there are so many of them. That is enough to satisfy that people don't know their rights. Hiding them from public is not needed.
Post 16 Nov 2006, 07:33
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
tom tobias wrote:
Many thanks for your humor, we need more of it on this forum!!
LocoDelAssembly wrote:

so isn't Microsoft an enemy of USA for save those countries to use such ugly assembler?
In the USA mentality, everything made in USA is great and wonderful, so these seven poor countries, now "denied" access to "terrific" microsoft assembler are being properly punished for their poverty.

I have a theory that those countries are poor just because of this.

If only Fidel Castro had access to the MS assembler..

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 16 Nov 2006, 07:38
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
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Maverick
rugxulo wrote:
BTW, I suspect (though can't prove it) that the U.S. government has made some weird law preventing people from exporting things to Syria, Iran, etc. (which are probably not "U.S.-friendly" countries, probably don't have U.S. embassies). At least, last I heard, visiting Cuba was a no-no and you'd be liable to getting fined $$$ from Uncle Sam if you did.

Ah, USA, the land of the free citizens!

When has it been the last time that Cuba threatened to invade or attack the USA?

And then has it been the last time that the USA invaded (not even threatened to) Cuba?

USA, the land of the free!

C'mon ppl, open your eyes a bit if you can.. it was easier to exit the USSR to reach some western country than it is for a USA citizen to reach Cuba legally. ;D

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 16 Nov 2006, 09:36
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
it was pretty easy to "escape" soviet block safely, if you was normal person (without records of being some anti-government). But of course, especially those were trying to escape. And since they couldn't do it normal way (take vacation in Yugoslavia and just cross border from there), they had to cross local border which was pretty good chance to get shot.

I'd say that it wasn't much different in eastern and western block, it's just now that western block is the one that rules the media now, so you can't learn from those. Fortunately we have little less focused thing - internet
Post 16 Nov 2006, 09:52
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arafel



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
arafel
vid wrote:
Why should we allow people to agree on something that is against law?
rugxulo wrote:

The real question is, am I the only one who thinks "you can only write for Windows" is ridiculous? What if someone's license said, "You must wear a beanie and eat chocolate popsicles while using this program"? Is that legal, too??


EULA is just a form of a non binding contract which may have legal weight in some cases. You can set any conditions, whenever it's disassembly prohibition or beanie wearing, unless they are illegal in the current jurisdiction. Most chances that the court would reject a case if someone sued you for not wearing a beanie, while otherwise were explicitly specified in the EULA, but there is huge chance for being fried for breaking the product's distribution terms.

vid, I guess, if for example a foreign EULA stated "then local law may apply" and set some restrictions on user regarding his sexual preference but Slovak law prohibited this kind of discrimination, then this term of use may and must be overlooked by Slovakian citizen. But it doesn't mean you can overlook another term as well just because it's not explicitly prohibited (or granted as in this case) by the local law.

Anyhow, all this jurisprudence is rather a foggy area for me. a friend of mine got sued last year because he hit someone who were trying to steal his car... go figure.
Post 16 Nov 2006, 13:11
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
right to do reversing (under certain conditions) is explicitly granted in our law. Thus, EULA can't prohibit it. This is what i meant.
Post 16 Nov 2006, 13:56
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

right to do reversing (under certain conditions) is explicitly granted in our law.


That's very interesting Vid. It's the same in my country, we're allowed to reverse our cars out of driveways and other places where going forward is not possible ..... well at least I think we are as it's not actually enshrined in law like in your country Smile
Post 16 Nov 2006, 21:13
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Considering that most people don't even read EULAs (too much gibberish ... err I mean legalese), plus that they will do whatever they want once it's in their own hands, why bother? (So they don't get sued? Who sues over software these days??). Pardon me, but I think the whole shareware/postcardware/demoware/greenware/MIT/BSD/GPL/DRM/NDA/patents/etc. madness has gotten a little cumbersome in a lot of ways. I'm just wondering aloud why the concerns over even the most trivial software seem to almost require indentured servitude.

Cuba is a Communist country, not open press, not the most "yay for our leader" place in the world. Plus, Communism isn't exactly the most appreciated idea in the U.S. (re: Vietnam war, McCarthy era, etc.). I'm not necessarily interested in visiting (even if I think it's somewhat silly that we are told we can't). I'm not sure sanctions work, but what do you expect? No solution is perfect. Sad

Face it, even if we "citizens of the world" all get along, our governments have their issues (just like any dysfunctional family). We can't let anyone else's disputes prevent us from being friendly/charitable/etc. (Of course, we shouldn't enable/encourage mischief around the world either ... in other words, don't give money to a guy who'll just go spend it on bombs.)

EDIT: My 387th post! Wanna know what I really think about (certain insane) EULAs? FUCOM Laughing


Last edited by rugxulo on 19 Nov 2006, 00:32; edited 1 time in total
Post 17 Nov 2006, 00:39
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

Of course, we shouldn't enable/encourage mischief around the world either


I agree but I see no way to stop the USA. They steel so much of the worlds oil that they can create aircraft carriers that drop bombs from aircraft, killing people by the hundreds ( praise the lord Confused ) and no one is powerful enough to stop them, so the "mischief around the world" will continue for a long time yet Sad
Post 17 Nov 2006, 03:51
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
rugxulo wrote:
Cuba is a Communist country, not open press

Yeah, I remember very well how Italian journalists (which are already "not free" by themselves) were treated by the USA militars during the Iraqi wars. ZERO FREEDOM, all news had to be authorized by the USA command. Now call it freedom of speech, for fsck sake!!

Also, was the CIA's Pinochet Cile "open press" by any chance? Are you comparing oranges to apples?

Quote:
not the most "yay for our leader" place in the world.

Seems like you are talking about Bush.. or any dictator pupput placed by the USA to suck the blood of a poor nation. The list is so long that I don't want to chocke the Internet by posting it.

Quote:
Plus, Communism isn't exactly the most appreciated idea in the U.S. (re: Vietnam war, McCarthy era, etc.).

But Bush is in Vietnam now (first time in his life! congratulations to all those that died there!), how i$ it po$$ible? Very Happy
Also, McCarthy, another great example of democracy, freedom of thought (let away speech), etc.. you brought the mud up. Smile
I wonder if McCarthy or Bush were sitting on Stalin's chair, having that power, what they would have done. "God" protect us from them!
At least Castro tried to serve his own people. Bush is only thinking about HIS and HIS FRIENDS' money, he's not even truly patriot.

Quote:
I'm not necessarily interested in visiting

If that is even a quarter of justification for not allowing it to free, well behaving people with no criminal records, then..

Quote:
(even if I think it's somewhat silly that we are told we can't).

..and that is the other 3/4. Still, 1/4 of justification is already too much.

And anyway you're not "told you can't". You go into deep shit if you try. Because USA is the land of the free, you know!

IIRC there's a law that says that such limitations can be put in place only on a nation against which the USA is in war. Where's the declaration of war against Cuba?

Come on rugxulo, keep on justifying the FASCIST actions of your government, even those against its own citizens.


Quote:
I'm not sure sanctions work, but what do you expect? No solution is perfect. Sad

End of problem! Smile

Quote:
Face it, even if we "citizens of the world" all get along, our governments have their issues (just like any dysfunctional family). We can't let anyone else's disputes prevent us from being friendly/charitable/etc. (Of course, we shouldn't enable/encourage mischief around the world either ... in other words, don't give money to a guy who'll just go spend it on bombs.)

Don't give it to Israel then! Very Happy

Let away that it was your government that sold the gas to Saddam TO USE IT against the Iranians, because that was what the USA wanted that time. If (never!) the Iranians will become friends of the USA, then the USA government after having hanged him on a rope will resurrect him to hang him again also for having killed "those poor Iranians". But we all forgot who sold the gas and why it was sold (besides to make MONEY of course). Wink

Anyway, with all due respect, I finally got the strong impression that talking with you is useless. You're very close minded, pal, and hopelessly so, I'm afraid. You recall me a very good friend of mine in is youth. But now he's a completely different person, after having served in the 'Nam war (as a volunteer) and after having finally had the chances to really open his eyes. You've still a lot to walk anyway before you start to get an unbiased view of the country you live in. Maybe when you're 60.. but by then, you may already live in a nazist country, not just in a fascist one.

It's so sad that the country which truly represented democracy many many years ago is a growingly fascist empire now.. and so many millions of its citizens don't even remotely notice it yet.

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 17 Nov 2006, 06:14
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Maverick, just to be clear, I do not explicitly support all these things, but it is a bit beyond my reach/understanding, so I try not to criticize. What you see as defense of the U.S. government by me, I see as more of a deflection of blame and criticism that is redundant. I am not exactly what most people would call a patriot, just a normal schmo. In other words, you misunderstand: I do not necessarily agree with any of these decisions (and I do feel you are exaggerating a bit, but anyways ...).

The USA is not evil. Anybody holding grudges against the U.S. is fooling/hurting themselves because 300 million people do not all agree and have their own personal lives to worry about more than arguing (which never solves anything). Like I said, we all live on the same Earth, we are all brothers. Remember, it is NOT always true that "your voice counts, you can change the world" because you can't change other people!

P.S. My faith in God overrides any supposed patriotism. As St. Thomas More said, "The king's loyal servant, but God's first!"
Post 17 Nov 2006, 18:24
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

The USA is not evil.


As Forest Gump would say, "evil is what evil does" Wink

Here's a small step in the right direction for you rugxulo. Turn off all US bias news reports, especially FOX. Voice of America is a far less bias news reporting station if you feel you still need to live with the lie that the US are the good guys.

Please research the truth of what your country is doing now and have done in the past so you can at least have an informed opinion.
Post 17 Nov 2006, 22:57
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