flat assembler
Message board for the users of flat assembler.

Index > Heap > rules....

Author
Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
In the forum feedback section, yesterday, Revolution wrote:
Quote:
I know this is not in the "heap" so I appologise in advance if I am out of line by responding to the English subtopic in this thread. If it is not fitting then please delete if you want.

no need to delete it, let's simply place it in heap, where it belongs!
tom tobias wrote:

Concerning "Which is grammatically correct: I wish I were younger or I wish I was younger? " ... "The subjunctive environment is the complement of a verb of wishing or wanting, invoking the hypothetical world."

responding to this,
Revolution wrote:

I am confident that you are correct in your assertion, and at the same time I am not saying the other party is wrong either. Because I have always thought of English as not having any real "correct" form. While some uses seem more correct than others, it is also worthwhile to remember that English was not designed by a committee with an official set of specs to follow. Indeed English was designed by the people (all people that use it), and further, it is still being designed today, and most probably will continue to be further designed for a long time to come.

The point being that all the rules are really just approximations of the usual usage. Which is why many English language books disagree with each other. Because they have different views about what is usual.

In many cases, like the above, it is possible to find so-called authorities stating one rule, and a different set of authorities stating the opposite rule. I have not checked for this particular case, but I would not be surprised if I could find something saying the opposite quite easily. For the most part, it comes down to which authority you decide to follow.


I do not accept the hypothesis that it is grammatically correct to write "I wish I was", even though, that is precisely how I spoke, for more than five decades on planet earth. I did not comprehend the subjunctive until studying another language....I had never realized that I had been speaking incorrectly. Imagine informing someone that proper English is "ASKED about" (i.e. inquire), and NOT "AXED about", as is, unfortunately, spoken WIDELY in USA, (unconciously inverting two successive phonemes--the same problem encountered by Bush,Blair,Reagan,Carter, and many others who misspoke "nuclear", calling it, instead: "nuculear".) Is this a question of "which authority one follows" ???
No. "Axed about" is WRONG. "nuculear" is WRONG. Their useage depends neither upon the quantity of speakers who misuse the language, nor upon some "authority", or "expert" who shares the view that "axed about" is correct. It is AGRAMMATICAL to write or say: "If I was" as an elaboration of "wishing for", or "wanting something", in a hypothetical context.
There are some anarchists, for example, who believe that ALL RULES should be broken. Since grammar is nothing but rules, some folks DELIBERATELY break them. Ok, fine. I have no problem with someone intentionally saying, or writing, "AINT", (instead of "Isn't"), or "AXED", or "If I was", or "nuculear", so long as the recipient understands, that these represent aberrations, i.e. IMPROPER useage of the language, not imaginative "dialectic" variants.
In discussing binary trees, Knuth writes:
(volume 1, page 325, "Program T. In this implementation of Algorithm T, the stack is kept in locations A+1, A+2,...,A+MAX; rI6 is the stack pointer...."
Some might conclude, from reading this extract of Knuth's excellent text, that searching binary trees requires a stack implementation. Knuth's method, using a stack, is an example, not a RULE. It is not a formal part of the specification of Assembly language programming that one must absolutely use a stack to create, or search, binary trees. I would not insist that everyone on this forum stop writing as they currently do, and instead change to employ a stack in searching binary trees, to be consistent with the authority, Knuth. English grammar is messy, ugly, and riddled with exceptions, therefore, nearly impossible to comprehend. However, as nasty as it it, we are saddled with it. It does not facilitate improved communication on this forum to invoke the justification that authority xyz claims it is satisfactory to err. Knuth uses MIX assembly, not x86 assembly language. We cannot argue, looking at his code:
...
ST5
LD5
J5NZ
....
that since Knuth is an authority, and since he writes with load and store instructions, therefore, we must use Push and Pop with our stack, rather than two MOV instructions accessing general memory, (assuming programming involving trees,) to remain consistent with Knuth. No, here, clearly we have a choice. One may use the stack, or one may prefer instead to access general memory. There exists no arbitrary, absolute rule asserting that one MUST use the stack to work with trees. Grammatical rules are, by definition, ARBITRARY, inflexible, and generally change in history only because of ignorance, rather than coherent, planned improvement. It is our burden to learn these arbitrary, often unruly, rules, explain them, and employ them accurately, not justify their misuse, by citing n quantity of authorities whose opinion may indeed be conformant with that of the uneducated majority.....
Smile
Post 14 Nov 2006, 14:17
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
tom: next time you want to split topic, just PM me Wink
Post 14 Nov 2006, 14:35
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Thanks vid, however, my pm function capability rarely works properly. I still have pm's from a year ago lurking about in the send subdirectory, never issued. Sometimes I receive a pm, respond, and a day or two later, when I check, my response is still lurking about, in the send queue, not yet dispatched. I appreciate your kindness in offering to split the topic back over to heap. I hope the FASM community will be able to follow the gist of the exchange between me and Revolution, with the quotes provided....
I guess, I don't know for sure, of course, but I suppose that Revolution meant that you should feel comfortable ELIMINATING the entire thread, much as you did with my comments concerning the comparison of assemblers. Speaking of which, dear vid, what is the story???? Is that thread on various assemblers' capabilities dead? Sorry, if so, for it seems to me, that was an important topic....
Smile
Post 14 Nov 2006, 17:16
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Just want to point out that "useage" is WRONG - it should be "usage". It seems that tom does care about grammar, which is a good thing! Smile

YONG
Post 15 Nov 2006, 12:45
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
tom: nope, ASM comparison is just frozen for now. I must get in mood to go on. Time-by-time i add a little something. It showed that it's lot of work. I am thinking about describing just the general-purpose assemblers for beginning...
Post 15 Nov 2006, 12:49
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17279
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
tom tobias wrote:
... IMPROPER usage of the language ...
I didn't read through all that you wrote but it seems you made a few proclamations and didn't even bother to state why it is so. You need to justify statements like the one I quoted above else how can we know what you say is (or is not) true? Please state why you think it is "IMPROPER usage"? I can't imagine how you will accomplish that without referring to an "authority" or your choosing.

Indeed, I can't even see what point you are trying to make.
tom tobias wrote:
... unruly, rules ...
And that is just plain funny in the implied contradiction.

PS: I took the liberty of correcting the misspelling that YONG pointed out. I doubt it was deliberate, and know that I can also make the same sort of mistakes so I won't bother to make an issue of it.
Post 15 Nov 2006, 16:11
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Thank you revolution, thanks also to YONG, for correcting my errors.
revolution wrote:
...just plain funny in the implied contradiction...
alas, it is more and more difficult to attempt humor....
revolution wrote:
seems you made a few proclamations and didn't even bother to state why it is so.

That's another problem with my writing style (apart from numberous speling mistackes): TOO TERSE....
Cool
Post 15 Nov 2006, 20:57
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Usually I would not bother to point out spelling mistakes (deliberate or just typo), and I do so only because tom does care about grammar and he likes to challenge other members' grammar!

While we, very often, may not agree with tom, I think we should appreciate his effort - it takes some time to write a LONG piece of message and he does so quite frequently - and maybe we should NOT take tom's view, opinion or comment so seriously.

Let's have some sense of humo(u)r. Smile

YONG
Post 16 Nov 2006, 13:06
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  


< Last Thread | Next Thread >
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Copyright © 1999-2020, Tomasz Grysztar.

Powered by rwasa.