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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

errrrhhh .... arafel lives in Jerusalem, Israel, not the US. so i don't get your point.


No of course you don't get my point, and there in lies the problem Sad

BTW HyperVista, about those Iran comments, if people here thought I was wrong about a US crusade against Moslems, I suspect they are wondering now if I was so wrong ..... thanks for demonstrating for me exactly what I was talking about ..... your country must be very proud of you Sad
Post 02 Nov 2006, 20:01
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HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
MichaelH wrote:
Quote:
HyperVista, if arafel's comments are not proof to you that all is not well in the US, then I see no point in continuing this debate.

I wrote:
Quote:
errrrhhh .... arafel lives in Jerusalem, Israel, not the US. so i don't get your point.

MichaelH wrote:
Quote:
No of course you don't get my point, and there in lies the problem

O_o

sorry, but i don't see how arafel's comments from an Israeli who lives in Israel proves or disproves anything going-on in the US at all.
i see you take exception to and are upset by facts, especially when asked directly to make your case to the question that if this is a crusade against muslims, why aren't muslims deported/detained and mosques burned here in the US, etc., etc.? The hard fact (for you at least) is that these things are not happening in US. Another hard fact is arafel's comments prove nothing about what's happening or not in US because he is Israeli, living in Israel.
Sorry, but hard facts seem to drive you to distraction and caused you to resort to insults instead of defending your position in a civil way.

MichaelH wrote:
Quote:
....your country must be very proud of you

MichaelH - i have been civil with you, haven't i? i have not insulted you, have i? is it that i happen to disagree with you about whether or not this is a crusade and asked you to defend you position against hard indisputable facts? i respect that your opinion is that it is a crusade. i'm not trying to dissuade you from that position. i'm simply asking you to defend that position in the context of a civil discussion among friends (fellow fasm programmers). i'm assuming that given the fact you have no response other than insults, you have no defense of your position. (damn, there it is again .... another pesky fact). Razz


Last edited by HyperVista on 03 Nov 2006, 01:24; edited 1 time in total
Post 02 Nov 2006, 21:39
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8904
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sleepsleep
the main point of the israel/palestine conflict is, the land has been divided unfairly.

imagine you got a cake, and there are 2 groups. group A with 10 persons, and group B with 3 persons.

to divide it fairly, group A should get 10/13 and group B get 3/13

this kinda fair equal division just doesn't happen in the 1947 UN Plan. the worse is, group B gets more than group A.

Quote:
is that all the blame IMO goes to religions

if without religions, probably things would get more worse.

you sleep, i sleep, you eat, i eat, you shit, i shit.
your blood is red, so am i, if i hit you, you would feel pain, so am i,
you will die, i will die.

God favourism wouldn't renders God to becomes unfair.
and we all are given time on this earth to improve ourselves to be a better person and consistent in our faith.

stupid are those leaders who want to own things that doesn't belong to anyone. the real fact is, leaders don't care if you die today or tomorrow, war or disease. they tax and they use your money for what they like Laughing

it is just bull shit why we need those fake leaders.

bush doesn't care if people's son die in the aimless war Wink
Post 02 Nov 2006, 23:48
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HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
hi sleepsleep. i've been to gaza and the west bank many times. i was there to assist the PA and i agree with you and Maverick in that the Israelis do often treat the Palestinians with contempt and without dignity. in fact, they treated me rather rudely at the border crossings simply because i was going to gaza and the west bank to assist the PA.

oh, yes (MichaelH), the US (in the person of myself and some US colleagues) helping a muslim nation at the direction of the American government .... some crusade against the muslims that! oh, and some facts for you MichaelH (because i know how much they affect you), i was assisting the Palestinian Authority's Preventative Security Service under an agreement between President Clinton and Yassir Arafat, whom I met while there in the 1999 - 2001 time frame.

some pesky facts MichaelH: http://tinyurl.com/yfzedj
Post 03 Nov 2006, 01:41
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MichaelH



Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 402
MichaelH
Quote:

sorry, but i don't see how arafel's comments from an Israeli who lives in Israel proves or disproves anything going-on in the US at all.


No of course you don't and there in lies the problem Wink


Please use your imagination this time HyperVista ...... ready....., see the mosque in your mind, got your torch flame burning, add some accelerant and -


Quote:

you didn't see those pictures of guys dancing around on stage with enriched plutonium some months ago? they're pushing full ahead with nuclear weapons development despite UN and world wishes to the contrary. their current leader believes it's his destiny to bring about some predicted Islamic revolution by starting the "end of times" via world conflict..... yeah, that's the kind of leader you want with access to nukes. oh yeah, and he's been spouting something about incinerating Israel....


Wow, this one is burning really well Shocked
Post 03 Nov 2006, 03:45
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
Anyway... it's not as much about the oil as it's about economy in general. War is pretty healthy for the nation economy, always have been and always will. Got any idea how much it boosts the job market? Not to mention that with a "professional" (as in non-conscription) army like the US one, you get a lot of nutcases joining the army, rather than causing trouble in their homeland. A few of those getting gunned down out in the foreign? Good riddance, less trouble-makers in the homeland.

Cynical? Yes.

Democracy can't be implanted - the only way to form a democracy is by going through a, surprise surprise, democratic process. This is not going to happen before the religious regimes are eradicated. As long as the people living under those regimes are poor, analphabetic and fearsome, that just isn't going to happen. Politics + religion = ultimate control.

As for crusade against muslims, bring it on. I'm tired of being yelled "Danish fuck, go home!" when I visit the region where I grew up. And embassay burnings because of some silly drawings in a Danish newspaper? Grow up, dark ages mentality idiots.

I'm fed up with people who want better, not equal rights.

Maverick wrote:

When Islam ruled Europe, they proved to be MUCH more tolerant in this (and many others) regards than Christians.

Yeah well, fast-forward a bunch of hundred years to 2006. Christians have pretty much "grown up" and moved past the dark-ages kind of crusade. Now look at how the muslim extremists are behaving... they're some hundred years behind us in terms of evolution.

This all sounds pretty harsh, but I'm really, really, tired of people mis-using religion and behaving like total pricks. We've been far too nice and tolerant so far; if they want the middle ages, perhaps they should have a taste of their own medicine - bombs away.
Post 03 Nov 2006, 08:44
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
What I don't get is why people take it all so seriously, feeling like "they" are enemies of people they don't even know. I mean, when people start renaming food ("freedom fries", and danishes being called something silly like "roses of Mohammed" or whatever), that's when it's gone too far.

Dude: I'd like a batch of freedom fries with MeccaCola, please.
Clerk: Want some martyred cow with that, sir?
Post 03 Nov 2006, 08:55
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
Oh yea, by the way...


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Post 03 Nov 2006, 09:17
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arafel



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
arafel
HyperVista wrote:

i was assisting the Palestinian Authority's Preventative Security Service under an agreement between President Clinton and Yassir Arafat, whom I met while there in the 1999 - 2001 time frame.

Surprised
Just out curiosity.. Where did you worked HyperVista? Smile
Post 03 Nov 2006, 11:07
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
f0dder: did your sister marry a Muslim? Wink Wink Wink
Post 03 Nov 2006, 11:12
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
Maverick: I only have brothers, and no way in hell any of those will marry a muslim.

(Yeah I've become narrow-minded in my old days, so sue me Smile ).
Post 03 Nov 2006, 11:31
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Arafel:
Quote:

we surely must know the historical background:

Evidence that Bush planned invasion of Iraq PRIOR to Muslim attack on WTC, 09 September 2001:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/index.htm
http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature/2004/04/20/woodward_clarke/index.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/main592330.shtml
Evidence that the Jews murdered the original inhabitants of Palestine, more than one millennium prior to their expulsion by the Romans, two millennia, i.e. 1935 years, ago.
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=1932
http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2005/12/01/news/israel/ujerusalem1202.txt
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2005/08/new_york_times_5.html
It is elementary to comprehend the gross injustice, expelling the indigenous inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians, and replacing them, during the past six decades, with Europeans and North Americans, of Jewish ethnicity. It is more difficult to envision the future, both of the region, and the world. I believe, based on the quantity of Jews holding important positions of power and wealth in USA, that SOON, i.e. within our lifetimes, the expansion of Jews in the Middle East will embrace the whole region, based upon the military prowess of USA, whose foreign and domestic policies will be dictated by Jews. Consider for example, just these two examples:
1. In the USA state of Florida, last year, the legislature adopted a holiday, the Jewish holiday at the beginning of October. This is now an OFFICIAL government holiday, of importance equal to 04 July, or Lincoln’s birthday, or any other holiday. As a holiday, banks are closed, schools are closed, people are supposed to THINK about the significance of this day. How could such a TINY percentage of the population, < 3%, exert such a profound influence on the remaining 97%, in essence compelling the ENTIRE population to observe the Jewish rituals and customs, thereby giving them validation? At least when Microsoft forced DOS upon us, (expelling the more popular, and more capable cp/m in the process,) they had IBM, a large corporation, not just large financially, but numerically superior as well, behind them. But the Jews in Florida do not have such numerical weight. Do the citizens of Florida, the “sunshine state” celebrate Zarathustra, i.e. Zoroastrianism? NO. People in Florida have never even heard of Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion which exerted an influence on Judaism, during the Jews captivity, in Babylon, i.e. Iraq, 2500 years ago. What about Buddha? People in Florida couldn’t distinguish Siddhartha from LaoZi. Yet, now they are obliged to meditate at least one day per year, thinking about Judaism, the original source of all the Muslim and Christian sectarianism, hatred, and murder. Do the people of Florida celebrate the gifts of life given to them by the aboriginal inhabitants of “the sunshine state”, i.e. the so-called American Indians. NO. There is no Florida acknowledgement of any of the “Indian” contributions to USA culture. They do not offer instruction in more than a couple of other foreign languages at Florida Atlantic University in Boca Raton, but they teach YIDDISH. Yiddish. Yes, Juden Deutsch--> Yiddish. Not Polish. Not Portugese. Not Arabic. Not Hindi. Yiddish.
2. In California, the State Supreme Court is 50% Jewish. Aboriginal people and Jews are both less than 3% of the population, yet, Jews comprise 50% of the Supreme Court justices, of course, “Indians” have zero representation. Which group suffered the “holocaust”, the people with NO more language, no more culture, no holidays in memory of their civilization, or the Jews?
Post 03 Nov 2006, 13:44
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HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
MichaelH - LOFL .. Laughing
Quote:
Please use your imagination this time HyperVista ...... ready....., see the mosque in your mind, got your torch flame burning, add some accelerant and -


You've made my point precisely! You prefer to deal with imagination rather than facts. Really, just because you imagine mosques burning in America, doesn't make it so. The fact is, none of the things associated with a crusade against muslims just isnt' happening in America, no matter how much you imagine it. Shocked

If you care to spend some time doing some basic research you will see some facts regarding my comments about Iran:


World urges Iran not to pursue nuclear weapons
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061012/NATION/610120335/1020

Iran says Israel should be wiped-off the map
http://www.hindu.com/2006/10/21/stories/2006102100991500.htm
http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=147849
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/538373.html

Iran threatens Europe for support of Israel
http://tinyurl.com/yypb73

Iran Religious beliefs and use of nuclear weapons
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/29/magazine/29islam.html?ref=middleeast

Or.... you can contiune to live in you imaginary world MichaelH. Good luck with that! Laughing
btw, for your future reference, this and tom tobias' well stated argument are examples of how to defend your position with facts, not with wishful thinking or imagined things and gratuitous insults. while i may not agree totally with tom tobias's position, i appreciate his well researched and reasoned argument. you should take some notes MichaelH. cheers!


Last edited by HyperVista on 03 Nov 2006, 15:42; edited 1 time in total
Post 03 Nov 2006, 13:52
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
it's well known fact to many, that jews are always where the power is. I would sooner believe that USA is controlled by jews, than that USA hates jews.

by the way, this has been also discussed here: http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=4344&start=20, with some evidence i researched about BBC and about slovak local main commercial television.
Post 03 Nov 2006, 14:11
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: web
Dex4u
The BBC is the most biased News organisation in the world, eg: we had a boy of 15 from Scotland, killed by 4 asians men, first tortured and burnt so bad that people walk by, thinking that the body was a burnt carpet, This group of asians had drove round in there car looking for any white person to kill.
But the BBC will not report it, but if it was the other way round we would get days or weeks of it.
Why will they not treat all people the same.
So anything the BBC says, must be taken with a pinch of salt.
Post 03 Nov 2006, 15:22
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ronware



Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 179
Location: Israel
ronware
Maverick wrote:

And about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I think that no government really wants to solve the problem, because it's not in their interest. It's not in the interest of Iran, of Siria, but neither of Israeli (if it means to give back most of the land)...


It is a fact that Israel (under the Barak gov't) offered the Balestinians (under the kleptocracy of Yassir Arafat, may his memory be erased) 95% of what they were demanding in terms of land. The immediate result was the "intifadeh" - suicide bombings against Israeli civilians (not military or gov't targets), rockets launched blindly into Israeli cities, etc. That is the direct result of the "land for peace" formula which has been tried several times with disastrous results to Israel and to world peace at large.

The so-called liberal and enlightened European countries and their supporters everywhere will be in for a very unhappy day when they (finally) realize (too late) what the Islamic concept of "dar al harb" means.
Post 03 Nov 2006, 15:47
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ronware



Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 179
Location: Israel
ronware
vid wrote:
it's well known fact to many, that jews are always where the power is. I would sooner believe that USA is controlled by jews, than that USA hates jews.

by the way, this has been also discussed here: http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=4344&start=20, with some evidence i researched about BBC and about slovak local main commercial television.

And since that time you haven't learned anything? Shame on you, vid - shame on you. Mad
Post 03 Nov 2006, 15:49
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arafel



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
arafel
Tom Tobias,

tom tobias wrote:
Evidence that Bush planned invasion of Iraq PRIOR to Muslim attack on WTC, 09 September 2001:

As I said, I not familiar with US-Iraq conflict, so I incapable of discussing this issue.
Quote:

Evidence that the Jews murdered the original inhabitants of Palestine, more than one millennium prior to their expulsion by the Romans, two millennia, i.e. 1935 years, ago.
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=1932
http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2005/12/01/news/israel/ujerusalem1202.txt
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2005/08/new_york_times_5.html

Perhaps, you right about this. However I don't know the history of that particular era. I will give you a more affirmative answer on sunday after a visit at library. I hope you didn't mean by "evidence" a couple articles in newspapers and an online publication?
Quote:

within our lifetimes, the expansion of Jews in the Middle East will embrace the whole region


State of Israel has a well defined borders and never declared, and until it remains a democratic society never will, its wish to expand over those borders.
I am lost... what expansion exactly in the Middle East do you mean?

Quote:
In the USA state of Florida, last year, the legislature adopted a holiday, the Jewish holiday at the beginning of October. ...


Actually it's 3.9% according to U.S. Census Bureau Report 2003. And the remaining 96% consist of groups of different ancestry: Hispanic, Asians, etc. Thus those 96% are not a single entity. So 4% is not such a small group and obviously it will have some influence.
US is a democratic society and since the legislature passed this Jewish holiday vote, I suppose there was no opposition to this from the majority of remaining population. IMO your point would be only valid, if it was legislated despite of majority disapproval. But since it's not the case so I frankly don't see why you blaming the Jewish. Blame democratic system instead.

FAU department of language & linguistics site says that they provide bachelor's in : French, German, Italian, and Spanish. And additionally teach Classical Greek, Modern Greek, Hebrew, Japanese, Latin, and Yiddish.
This means they are not teaching about 6000 of other languages.
You took one item from the list and wrapped it in some kind of conspiracy theory. In the same spirit I could say that FAU is dictated by French. They do provide Bachelor degree in French and it's listed first in the list, but Polish, Russian, Swedish are NOT!

Quote:
In California, the State Supreme Court is 50% Jewish. Aboriginal people and Jews are both less than 3% of the population, yet, Jews comprise 50% of the Supreme Court justices, of course, “Indians” have zero representation. Which group suffered the “holocaust”, the people with NO more language, no more culture, no holidays in memory of their civilization, or the Jews?

There is a difference between religion preference and ancestry. So supreme court has 50% people of Jewish ancestry. Who says, that they plan to take over the world and impose Judaism on everyone? Most chances that most of them don't even believe in God and has as much to do with Judaism as you with Chinese ballet dancing. If you read in paper that 50% of Supreme Court justices comprise of representatives with Jewish names it doesn't mean they are bunch of fanatic Zionists trying to turn US into Israel2 or using their position for their own benefit .

edit: fixed some typos.
Post 03 Nov 2006, 17:18
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
f0dder wrote:
Maverick: I only have brothers, and no way in hell any of those will marry a muslim.

(Yeah I've become narrow-minded in my old days, so sue me Smile ).
I'd never marry neither a Christian, that's why I married an Atheist like me. Smile

My daughter got no baptism (if she will want it later, welcome, but I'm not going to enforce by default such useless medieval practices which only serve the Church).

PS: why should I sue you? I was only trying to understand the source of your anger towards Muslims. Wink

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 03 Nov 2006, 18:17
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Maverick



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Citizen of the Universe
Maverick
tom tobias wrote:
Arafel:
Quote:

we surely must know the historical background:

Evidence that Bush planned invasion of Iraq PRIOR to Muslim attack on WTC, 09 September 2001:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/index.htm
http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature/2004/04/20/woodward_clarke/index.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/main592330.shtml
Evidence that the Jews murdered the original inhabitants of Palestine, more than one millennium prior to their expulsion by the Romans, two millennia, i.e. 1935 years, ago.
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=1932
http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2005/12/01/news/israel/ujerusalem1202.txt
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2005/08/new_york_times_5.html
It is elementary to comprehend the gross injustice, expelling the indigenous inhabitants, i.e. the Palestinians, and replacing them, during the past six decades, with Europeans and North Americans, of Jewish ethnicity. It is more difficult to envision the future, both of the region, and the world. I believe, based on the quantity of Jews holding important positions of power and wealth in USA, that SOON, i.e. within our lifetimes, the expansion of Jews in the Middle East will embrace the whole region, based upon the military prowess of USA, whose foreign and domestic policies will be dictated by Jews. Consider for example, just these two examples:
1. In the USA state of Florida, last year, the legislature adopted a holiday, the Jewish holiday at the beginning of October. This is now an OFFICIAL government holiday, of importance equal to 04 July, or Lincoln’s birthday, or any other holiday. As a holiday, banks are closed, schools are closed, people are supposed to THINK about the significance of this day. How could such a TINY percentage of the population, < 3%, exert such a profound influence on the remaining 97%, in essence compelling the ENTIRE population to observe the Jewish rituals and customs, thereby giving them validation? At least when Microsoft forced DOS upon us, (expelling the more popular, and more capable cp/m in the process,) they had IBM, a large corporation, not just large financially, but numerically superior as well, behind them. But the Jews in Florida do not have such numerical weight. Do the citizens of Florida, the “sunshine state” celebrate Zarathustra, i.e. Zoroastrianism? NO. People in Florida have never even heard of Zoroastrianism, the ancient religion which exerted an influence on Judaism, during the Jews captivity, in Babylon, i.e. Iraq, 2500 years ago. What about Buddha? People in Florida couldn’t distinguish Siddhartha from LaoZi. Yet, now they are obliged to meditate at least one day per year, thinking about Judaism, the original source of all the Muslim and Christian sectarianism, hatred, and murder. Do the people of Florida celebrate the gifts of life given to them by the aboriginal inhabitants of “the sunshine state”, i.e. the so-called American Indians. NO. There is no Florida acknowledgement of any of the “Indian” contributions to USA culture. They do not offer instruction in more than a couple of other foreign languages at Florida Atlantic University in Boca Raton, but they teach YIDDISH. Yiddish. Yes, Juden Deutsch--> Yiddish. Not Polish. Not Portugese. Not Arabic. Not Hindi. Yiddish.
2. In California, the State Supreme Court is 50% Jewish. Aboriginal people and Jews are both less than 3% of the population, yet, Jews comprise 50% of the Supreme Court justices, of course, “Indians” have zero representation. Which group suffered the “holocaust”, the people with NO more language, no more culture, no holidays in memory of their civilization, or the Jews?

Very interesting insights. Before anybody calls you an anti Semit (let away that Palestinians are Semits just like Jews, something that many people seem to ignore) I'd suggest him/her to read a book written by a Jew who has suffered the Holocaust (his parents were into concentration camps) so he has probably some chances to write about it in a honest and sincere way.

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/content.php?pg=3

_________________
Greets,
Fabio
Post 03 Nov 2006, 18:33
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