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karl 06 Oct 2006, 07:58
 thanks F9. but it's basically a copy of what babyboy did, so i don't deserve much credit. i'm glad you find it useful though. i certainly did |
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06 Oct 2006, 07:58 |
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karl 08 Oct 2006, 16:45
thankyou for the compliment. it means a lot to me...
i'm pretty sure you can build any app from the manual PE template (also check out the PEDemo in fasm examples). all you need is documentation on the windows api. at the end of my code you'll see how the ExitProcess function was imported fom kernel32.dll. In the same way you can import any of the api. Using kernel32.dll, user32.dll and gdi32.dll you can build any app that can be build on windows. every user program that wants access to hardware has to go through those 3 files (i highly recommend Windows Internals by Mark Russinovich as the best way to get a deep understanding of how Windows works). here is a free download of the windows platform SDK. all the info can be found on the msdn website (i just google for the api name, like QueryPerformanceCounter) but if you can download this you can work while not online. the development process is rather simple. if you find an example of what you want to do, like in a c program or even an .exe, get the names of the api calls it makes. with the .exe you can use a debugger. then look up the api names in the sdk. then the only problem is preparing the right kind of data the api wants. the attached file should get you going. it uses opengl to render a rotating square (taken from fasm examples) but uses something called a multimedia timer so that you can accurately control the speed of the rotation. and if you look at the bottom i use more than kernel32,user32 and gdi. the multimedia timer comes from winmm.dll. opengl from opengl32.dll. check out the data section too to see how i build up the data structures specified in the platform sdk. also i don't use any macros or imports, so all you need is fasm.exe to assemble. good luck!
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08 Oct 2006, 16:45 |
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f0dder 08 Oct 2006, 21:31
You ought to set up some equates instead of using magic numbers... it's not like that will change executable size
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08 Oct 2006, 21:31 |
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karl 09 Oct 2006, 08:30
no i do see what you mean. with more equates it would be more flexible. but more equates also makes it harder to understand if you didn't write the code or hadn't seen it in a long time. more options make it less simple. that's why i only have equates for the main aspects the program. but i do think it's important to have a record of what the values you're using were for, but i just put that into comments next to the code instead of equates somewhere else.
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09 Oct 2006, 08:30 |
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f0dder 09 Oct 2006, 10:40
Actually it would make the program simpler to read - right now you use magic values and have their symbolic values as a comment.
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09 Oct 2006, 10:40 |
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karl 09 Oct 2006, 12:01
hmmm... no i agree the code itself looks rather cryptic just pushing numbers.... hmmm... i find it hard to strike a balance between having the code be clear and having the code header (description, equates, macros, data structures) be clear too. the clearer you make your code the more equates and macros you define which sometimes aren't as clear. hmmm... it's still something i'm struggling with. no silver bullet that i can see. i see your point though, i think
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09 Oct 2006, 12:01 |
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F9 09 Oct 2006, 15:49
I total agree.
The GOD Truth: That's the way my code goes, Other than that i would have never came to FASM to get the rest of the gunk out. I learned a lot with it, than I learned it make more since to live without it. After all, it for educational purposes only ... Not for the seasoned coder. As long as a person comment the code for his own needs with ^pure facts^ but pause to try to brief others, there is no problem. Just like anybody else you got to get back to your original project. You came to be a student for your own reasons, not others. Nine out of ten we all end up as educators. But for now ... If you were an pedagogue coding and commenting like that or changing to be like that than there would be an problem. Evidently this is your style of coding. No need to change it to please me or anyone else unless you plan to write a tutor. Your example is well appreciated.
This is no bash to you f0dder. I already know you are a great ASM coder and educator if not one of the most active ever, but in on this note, let karl do his thing his way, seem like he kind of stubborn like you as is. |
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09 Oct 2006, 15:49 |
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MichaelH 09 Oct 2006, 21:07
Bravo Karl, this is how I use fasm. I originally started like most, learning macros but one day run across code from an amazing programmer with the handle of Diamond who is part of the Kolibri OS team.
Russian link http://diamondz.land.ru/ Translation to English http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ru_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdiamondz.land.ru%2F Since that day I've gone about getting rid of all macros like you and come up with code very similar to what you have shown here. I hope more people find the light  if only to see fasm assemble code like DIB.asm with a "0 sec consumed" message (I use EditPlus) -
---------- Fasm ---------- flat assembler version 1.67.5 5 passes, 4096 bytes. Output completed (0 sec consumed) - Normal Termination I agree with fodder, magic values are a complete pain in the butt, especially when viewing code from others. However I like the way you do it but wonder whether with lines like - Code: push 0x16CF0000 ; dwStyle (WS_VISIBLE+WS_DLGFRAME+WS_SYSMENU) you expand out what the values of WS_VISIBLE+WS_DLGFRAME+WS_SYSMENU are in your comments. One other thing, using the import macro supplied with fasm you get - Code: _ExitProcess dw 0 db 'ExitProcess',0 rb RVA $ and 1 rb RVA $ and 1 ...... what do you think, worth adding. Look forward to seeing your new assembler when it's completed |
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09 Oct 2006, 21:07 |
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f0dder 09 Oct 2006, 21:44
[quote=F9]
This is no bash to you f0dder. I already know you are a great ASM coder and educator if not one of the most active ever, but in on this note, let karl do his thing his way, seem like he kind of stubborn like you as is. [/quote] Great asm coder is probably an overstatement; I'm fairly decent and have always been able to get the speed/size I need, but I'm not in the same league as the real good ones, and I don't belive in full-asm programming for my own needs
<PEDANTIC> Btw, you shouldn't do "WS_VISIBLE+WS_DLGFRAME+WS_SYSMENU" since it's really "WS_VISIBLE or WS_DLGFRAME or WS_SYSMENU". For most stuff this won't matter, but...
</PEDANTIC> |
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09 Oct 2006, 21:44 |
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karl 10 Oct 2006, 10:55
F9: it seems we agree on many things. i also came to fasm to 'get the gunk out'. also i hate not being in control, and i think assembly gives you the most.
as for coding style: i love coding. it's one of my favorite things. and yes, you have to get things done, you have to be practical if you want to be a 'good' coder, but that doesn't mean you can't be an individual, that you can't have your own style... it really moved me when i read tomasz describe himself as an 'assembly artist'. his code is, i think, quite beautiful. and i love the idea that my code could be considered art, even though it was serving a practical function. anyway, i'm just ranting. i hope it's someway related to what you were saying. thanks for backing me up. and you're last comment is very perceptive: i can be incredibly stubborn
michaelh: i'm glad you see the macro debate like i do. thanks for the heads-up on diamond; i always love to find new coding heros. the reason i don't specify what WS_VISIBLE and WS_DLGFRAME are is that i assume you have access to the microsoft platform sdk. that's where all the symbols names in the comments come from. to me, if you're programming windows, especially low-level, you should have the official windows-programming documentation, ie. the sdk. so i leave out as much as i can without making it too cryptic. as long as you get an idea of what code is doing. so to me ' ; dwStyle WS_VISIBLE+WS_DLGFRAME+WS_SYSMENU' gives a rough idea of what you're doing. to understand the code you don't need the actual values, and if you do need them you have the sdk. as for the import macro code: _ExitProcess dw 0 db 'ExitProcess',0 rb RVA $ and 1 hmmm... i'm not sure what that last line is suppose to be doing. i think rb doesn't necessarily get included. to get a better idea you can look at the pe1.zip file (link last page) that describes how the import table is suppose to look in your .exe. just had a glance and it looks like it will take some work to decipher. look at the pedemo in fasm/examples. it does the same. it's how tomasz does it in the fasm.asm source. and hey , it works, so...
thanks for the encouragement about the assembler. i'll let you know if it happens! fodder: i get you. WS_VISIBLE or, not +. i think it reads easier with a + though. |
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10 Oct 2006, 10:55 |
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f0dder 10 Oct 2006, 10:59
Quote:
Then you have to break up the "magic value" into individual power-of-two numbers, grep the sdk includes for those, find multiple matches, and have to decide which one is the most likely... which is why sane people use symbolic constants
Quote:
It's only a problem if you find a rare case with two equates with the same value... I can't think of any off top of my head, but I seem to recall running into them. |
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10 Oct 2006, 10:59 |
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karl 10 Oct 2006, 11:39
are you suggesting i'm not sane?
like F9 said, i'm stubborn as hell. i want the entire program to be in one source file. i want it to be beautiful. i want to easily understand what the code is doing 5 years from now. my style is, i think, a result of trying to balance these insane desires. again i see your point, though |
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10 Oct 2006, 11:39 |
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F9 10 Oct 2006, 17:19
Nice to know i have not offended anyone with my 2 bits. f0dder's problem with your code brought about MichaelH's suggestion which obviously is perfect for you. It hurts nothing.
Quote: i read tomasz describe himself as an 'assembly artist'. his code is, i think, quite beautiful. I downloaded tomasz video and will be viewing and listening to it for the next few weeks, everyday, all day, while i re-code my entire project from his PE EXAMPLE based in your DIB code style. (That will be my start with PE) I will be out for a while. When i get back i hope to talk with tomasz for a minute or two. I'm not giving up on manual PE but i best step aside so you can deal with your new and more experienced friends. I'll be hitting the books as well to try to catch up. Quote: i hope it's someway related to what you were saying. karl, PM me with a ^spare^ e-mail address and i will sent you a special part from my personal masm32 project. To see it will answer that question and may prove to be helpful for your dissembler. Quote: anyway, i'm just ranting. You should be proud. |
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10 Oct 2006, 17:19 |
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MichaelH 10 Oct 2006, 22:30
rb RVA $ and 1 ..... byte alignment. If the procedure name is an odd number of characters, this line will mean the next import is byte aligned. Not sure whether it helps performance but alignment is good
Yes I have the SDK's etc and have Editplus set up so I put the cursor on the word, click a user tool button and the values information is displayed. It's just Tom Tobias keeps reminding us about readability. The fact he tells us we will be educators of others really scares me  .... I can't imagine a world of people taught by me as I've been certified brain dead about as long as Tom has
Anyway I don't think it's important how code is made readable, what's important is that it is readable....., thanks for your examples. This forum is full of people endlessly giving and asking nothing in return ..... it's fantastic! Regards Michael |
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10 Oct 2006, 22:30 |
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f0dder 10 Oct 2006, 23:35
[quote=F9]
Nice to know i have not offended anyone with my 2 bits. f0dder's problem with your code brought about MichaelH's suggestion which obviously is perfect for you. It hurts nothing. [/quote] It hurts nothing, but it's redundant - if you used EQUs, the magic number would be replace with the comment, and there would then be no need for a comment... and you also don't risk that magic value and describing comment are out of sync. I find it a bit humorous, by the way, that Tom Tobias talks about readability, considering his post structure |
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10 Oct 2006, 23:35 |
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F9 11 Oct 2006, 04:53
Quote: It hurts nothing, but it's redundant - if you used EQUs, the magic number would be replace with the comment, and there would then be no need for a comment... This is getting crazy If someone want to code a certain way, that's that. If he choose to place a comment ; (notes) next to a line of code it probably only to help other understand it or to serve as an reminder if he forget some details down the line ... Come on guy. It's totally of topic and it beginning to seems like nitpicking. This thread has came to a life of it own. People are not coming here to read two pages about readability of karl's code. Point was made already. Anything else is a distraction. Here are two links that ^may^ favor both of options. Read between the lines than make your choices. For me, i got my reasons to do it the hard way and will not try to convince anyone to accept that. http://www.programmingresearch.com/solutions/QAJDOCS/Patterns/no-magic-numbers.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_number_(programming) Regards |
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11 Oct 2006, 04:53 |
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asmfan 12 Oct 2006, 19:26
some fixes to karl's posted code. Corrected section size (not only import is taken into consideration), sone needed(?) align added.
EDITED: corrected my_align macro.
_________________ Any offers? |
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12 Oct 2006, 19:26 |
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Croustiman 16 Apr 2007, 14:06
Hello!
I have a question. Why the code size in "code_section" is limited ? It's possible to fix that ? yea, how ? Thx !  |
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16 Apr 2007, 14:06 |
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hidden 16 Apr 2007, 22:16
And this absolutely incorrect construction perfectly works on WinXP SP2 and has size 208 bytes. Can any body make smaller and not to louse functional?
Code: image_base equ 0x400000 alignment equ 0x4 stack_reserve equ 0x1000 stack_commit equ 0x1000 heap_reserve equ 0x1000 heap_commit equ 0x1000 use32 dos_header: db 'MZ' jmp lable1 pe_header: db 'PE',0,0 dw 0x014C dw 1 _MessageBox db 'MessageBoxA', 0 dw sizeof.header dw 0x010F optional_header: dw 0x010B user_table: MessageBox dd _MessageBox+0000h-2 dd 0 message db 'Hello',0 dd 0 user_name db 'USER32',0,0 dd image_base dd alignment dd alignment lable1: push eax push title+image_base jmp directory_entries dq 4 dd sizeof.image dd import_directory dd 0 dd 2 dd stack_reserve dd stack_commit dd heap_reserve dd heap_commit dd 0 dd 2 directory_entries: push message+image_base push eax jmp label2 dd import_directory dd sizeof.import label2: mov esi, edx call[MessageBox+image_base] push esi db 0xEB import_header: db 0 ret title: db 'Title',0 dd sizeof.import dd import_directory dd sizeof.import dd import_directory rd 3 dd 0x0E0000020 import_directory: dd 0,0,0,user_name db user_table file_end: sizeof.import = file_end-import_directory sizeof.header = import_header-optional_header sizeof.image = file_end _________________  Lang: (eng|рус)Last edited by hidden on 18 Apr 2007, 22:10; edited 1 time in total |
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16 Apr 2007, 22:16 |
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