flat assembler
Message board for the users of flat assembler.

Index > Heap > kite wind generator!

Goto page 1, 2  Next
Author
Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
vbVeryBeginner



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 884
Location: \\world\asia\malaysia
vbVeryBeginner
impressive, let us fly kites now!
http://www.sequoiaonline.com/blogs/ARCHIVIOscelti/progetto_eng.htm

awesome, awesome, awesome Cool
Post 12 Sep 2006, 06:14
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8870
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
i just desgined this in 3d blender,
what you guys think about it,
woudl it spin forever??

http://www.boinc.ch/~sleepsleep/bbimg/fe1.jpg
http://www.boinc.ch/~sleepsleep/bbimg/fe2.jpg

? and any reason for it not so spins?

the green splitter should be a soft thing (like cloths) that could prevent magnetism.
Post 10 Oct 2006, 09:47
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17253
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
sleepsleep wrote:
woudl it spin forever?? ...
and any reason for it not so spins?
Second law of thermodynamics.
sleepsleep wrote:
the green splitter should be a soft thing (like cloths) that could prevent magnetism.
Where can we find such a cloth?

You are trying to make a perpetual motion machine, but first you must break the laws of physics to achieve your goal.
Post 10 Oct 2006, 11:08
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
rhyno_dagreat



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 487
Location: Maryland, Unol Daleithiau
rhyno_dagreat
Here's something I thought of that's interesting:

Create a machine that gives constant electrical energy through the use of Faraday's principle, by having some of the electricity being generated by this machine create the electricity through the use of a fork of the circuit and one of the lines leading to a series of capacitors being charged and in a way giving a constant voltage to an electric motor which pushes and pulls a magnet through a coil of copper wire, whereas the other fork leads to some transistors to (in-terms) increase or (better-termed) amplify the voltage.
I'm not sure if this is possible or just brainplay, but it's food for though, I definately think.
Post 11 Oct 2006, 02:59
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
UCM



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Canada
UCM
It wouldn't work, since both magnets would cause force on the wheel, negating each other out.
Post 11 Oct 2006, 22:34
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
rhyno_dagreat



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 487
Location: Maryland, Unol Daleithiau
rhyno_dagreat
revolution wrote:

You are trying to make a perpetual motion machine, but first you must break the laws of physics to achieve your goal.

How about bending the laws of physics to achieve a goal like that? Not breaking them, but pushing the limits of them. (As strange as that sounds)
Post 11 Oct 2006, 23:16
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8870
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
http://www.boinc.ch/~sleepsleep/bbimg/fe8.jpg

the idea is to hope the previous magnet A can force the magnet B to the edge of microvave food wrapper, and once at the edge, and hope the soft spring would move to point C, and then hope the force of magnet A would push the magnet B forward.

it seems quite logic to me that it would works, ... ( i could be wrong ) ...

the whole thingy inside here,
http://www.boinc.ch/~sleepsleep/viewtopic.php?p=241
Post 12 Oct 2006, 01:36
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17253
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
rhyno_dagreat wrote:
How about bending the laws of physics to achieve a goal like that? Not breaking them, but pushing the limits of them. (As strange as that sounds)
haha, I think the laws are extremely brittle, so any amount of bending would cause it to break instantly.
sleepsleep wrote:
it seems quite logic to me that it would works
I suggest you build it first. You might find it fun to play with the magnets. But somehow I think you will have great difficulty getting it to work the way you want. Don't take it as discouragement, you will most likely learn a lot by trying it out.
Post 12 Oct 2006, 07:16
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
arafel



Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
arafel
sleepsleep, trying to make perpetuum mobile. eh? Smile
Post 12 Oct 2006, 12:34
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
rhyno_dagreat



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 487
Location: Maryland, Unol Daleithiau
rhyno_dagreat
arafel wrote:
sleepsleep, trying to make perpetuum mobile. eh? Smile

Lol, yes! It would save us a load of money on gas here in America. Wink
Post 12 Oct 2006, 13:25
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Turok



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 23
Turok
When i was very young i was fascinated by magnets, stones that possesed invisible almost magical force Very Happy I was also extremly interested in perpetuum mobile, so i came up with a design very similar to this. But later when i leared more i realized that it wouldnt work :/ Revolutions explenation is quite correct, but perhaps hard to imagine. Such systems are sometimes hard to understand as a whole, but can usualy be simplified, so i will try to simplify this.

First we focus and look only iteraction between one magnet on the outer side and one magent on the inner side when they are relatively close. We can see that this problem can be represented by two magnets on a horizontal axis facing each other with the same magnetic pole. Now in this system we can see that if we push magnets closer the system gains energy (similar to the spring, but here the koeficient of the "spring" changes with distance). If we were to release the magnets, the energy stored in this system would be released through kinetic energy of the magnets which would "fly away". Now we come to the "magic cloath". We know that there is no (and can not be) such a material that would just "cut off" magnetic field, however there are materials that can manipulate it (feromagnetic, paramagnetic, diamagnetic). We could use any of them. For feromagnetic (magnets) we could use two magnetic films stuck together with same pole, for paramagnetic (they become magnetic in magnetic field - paramagnet has oposite pole faced to the magnet) we could make a lense from this material that would disperse the magnetic field, or we could use diamagnetic (they become magnetic in magnetic field - diamagnet has the same pole faced to the magnet). If we use any of these methods we can reduce the force between the magnets if we put it in between the magnets. Now we can put it between the magnets when we are forcing the magnets together (now we need less force and as such less enery) and before we release them we remove the "magic cloth" and increase the force and as such the energy of the system (system would put more enery out than we put it in - perpetuum mobile). How can it be that we get more enery out? Well we actually didnt get more enery out becouse we put all that extra energy in "removing the magic cloth" (all these materials that we could use for "magic cloth" would be also effected by magnetic field - they would resist being removed).

I hope i didnt make any mistakes in my explenation as it is also a "thought experiment" and our thought can often fool us Very Happy

Indeed that wretched laws of thermodynamics forbids us of ever building a perpetuum mobile (only on small level it is possible that a particle gains/looses energy from nowhere) but our universe probably wouldnt exist without it Smile


Last edited by Turok on 12 Oct 2006, 21:41; edited 4 times in total
Post 12 Oct 2006, 21:08
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Turok



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 23
Turok
Perhaps i'll also put some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferromagnetism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramagnetism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamagnetism

Everybody should check that last link on diamagnetism as u can see picture of pyrolytic graphite levitating over strong neodymium magnets. We usually see that stunt only with superconductors - hard for home experiment, but this can be done at home Smile


Last edited by Turok on 12 Oct 2006, 22:28; edited 1 time in total
Post 12 Oct 2006, 21:22
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Turok



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 23
Turok
Also something about that particle thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
This also makes our universe "non-newtonian" (event A does not always lead to event B, but there are rather chances). For instance from event A there is some chance for event B and some chance for event C and some chance for event D etc... True random exists Smile There is no desteny Very Happy We are free Wink

Also about some "modern day" perpetuum mobile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy
Post 12 Oct 2006, 22:17
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8870
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
thanks turok, i appreciate all the replies.

could anyone share with me about this image,
http://www.boinc.ch/~sleepsleep/bbimg/fe10.jpg
and
http://www.boinc.ch/~sleepsleep/bbimg/fe11.jpg

would the magnet move? or it just sits static there in the tunnel (where we put it).
if it would moves, then we can create the tunnel in ring shape then the magnet would spin forever.
and let say if we push the magnet a little bit, would it moves and accelerate or it just sits static there?

*the tunnel is lay on the ground horizontally.
Post 12 Oct 2006, 22:43
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Turok



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 23
Turok
It would be unstable and would "twist" (touch the walls) according to Earnshaw's theorem.

Check the stability part:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnshaw%27s_theorem
Post 12 Oct 2006, 23:59
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Turok



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 23
Turok
Well in a way you could look at superconducting electromagnets as a perpetuum mobile Very Happy

I was on some institute and they said the same current was running through superconducting electromagnet for over 20 years without any mesurable loses. Ofcourse they have to be cooled with liquid nitrogen so there goes home use Very Happy Well maybe on a cooler planet Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconductivity
Post 13 Oct 2006, 00:37
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8870
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
this one is cool,
seems working

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvHb41KP7To
Post 28 Apr 2007, 13:17
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
After watching it twice seems a little bit fake, any realife working example?
Post 28 Apr 2007, 13:49
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
laserlight



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 22
Location: Singapore
laserlight
The "wood stick" example seems fake to me. Suppose you placed a magnet at the end of a stick of wood, as in the example. To get the external magnet to move the stick, you may set it up as a North seeking pole facing the North seeking pole of the magnet on the wood. Opposites repel, so the stick begins to move.

Now, what is the pole of the magnet on the other side? You might want to make it a North seeking pole as well, on the principle that it will lead to further repulsion, and thus keep the stick moving continuously. But, if it is a North seeking pole that faces the stick's North seeking pole faced magnet on the stick, the stick itself will lose momentum as it nears the second external magnet.

Of course, the second external magnet might be sufficiently weak such that the force of the first external magnet sends the stick past it, and once the magnet is past it, the second external magnet will add to the push. However, now we have the next problem: if the second external magnet is so weak, then the pushing force it applies to the stick will not be strong enough to overcome the repulsion of the first external magnet, as the stick's magnetic end approaches it.

EDIT:
Oh, I went to watch it again, and the claim I did not see carefully is the "careful alignment of magnets". So, a rebuttal of the stick example is insufficient. On the other hand, I suspect we would find that no alignment of magnets is satisfactory enough to overcome the basic problem as in the stick example. We would probably have to read the patent filed then. Anyone have any idea of the patent? I would be especially suspicious if there was none.
Post 28 Apr 2007, 17:33
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8870
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
Post 29 Apr 2007, 16:15
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  
Goto page 1, 2  Next

< Last Thread | Next Thread >
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Copyright © 1999-2020, Tomasz Grysztar.

Powered by rwasa.